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Do you think we should add some weather to the game?

Like rain could reduce range by 6",
Snow reduces movement by 2"

Thunderstorm does 1 S4 hit to anything that has nothing on top of them, or is beside a tree.

Whirlwind puts a large circle that travels across the board and roll 2D6 + Scatter dice to see where it goes that turn, and people in it can't shoot or assault do to huge winds.

Oops should be in proposed rules~
Move to proposed rules please

Sounds interesting. Start this thread up in Proposed Rules, I've got some ideas!

Rain and snow sound pretty interesting.

Thunderstorm I wouldn't use, mostly because it would cause hits to everything that isn't in ruins basically. I know it's only 1 S4 hit, but that slows things down. Maybe make it D3 S3 hits (S4 seems a bit high, but you can use whatever you want) applied randomly across the board.

well if there was you wouldn't be allowed to choose to use or not, it just happens like Nightfight instead

My idea for thunderstorm was that so it makes people cower in Cover instead of allowing you to run out in the open, so you have to decide whether you want to take damage or just wait a bit.

I did 1 S4 hit so that it is guaranteed to happen, enough random things in this game already... and it makes it more strategical to decide if you want to start running around in open field during a thunder storm.
At least that was the concept

 Makutsu wrote:
Do you think we should add some weather to the game?

Weather or night fighting. Too much randomness hurts the game. What if it's night fighting turn one, then rain on turn 2 and 3? My shooty army would be pointless.

I'm not against this idea per se, I'm just not really into the randomness of it all. I loathe losing over a reason I can't control...in any game (*cough* SSBB *cough*).

no, it's just an environment condition happens like Nightfight, so maybe if a 4+ weather comes on.
then D6 to determine what type of weather.

 Makutsu wrote:
no, it's just an environment condition happens like Nightfight, so maybe if a 4+ weather comes on.
then D6 to determine what type of weather.

How is that not random? My point is you're adding more random elements to an already incredibly random game. The difference is, that when I shoot 50+ guns, my odds are pretty good. If I roll 3 dice as my example, it could be very easy to get night, rain, rain. Which would mean my gun-line would be drastically weakened for 3 turns. Whereas my assault based army would be laughing at the easy ride.

Adding too many random elements doesn't make the game more fun, it can easily end up in one sided games where a couple of poor rolls costs a player a fair match. It can make people feel like they can't do anything about their situation, which isn't fun, nor is it engaging.

It's also adding more book-keeping which as a personal opinion I'm not in favor of.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
no, it's just an environment condition happens like Nightfight, so maybe if a 4+ weather comes on.
then D6 to determine what type of weather.

How is that not random? My point is you're adding more random elements to an already incredibly random game. The difference is, that when I shoot 50+ guns, my odds are pretty good. If I roll 3 dice as my example, it could be very easy to get night, rain, rain. Which would mean my gun-line would be drastically weakened for 3 turns. Whereas my assault based army would be laughing at the easy ride.

Adding too many random elements doesn't make the game more fun, it can easily end up in one sided games where a couple of poor rolls costs a player a fair match. It can make people feel like they can't do anything about their situation, which isn't fun, nor is it engaging.

It's also adding more book-keeping which as a personal opinion I'm not in favor of.

This. Also, I CAN easily choose not to use it if we didn't want to. We simply re-roll.

Don't limit yourselves to just weather. Fighting on a Planet with an atmosphere of explosive, toxic gases would have radically different effects than night fighting giving you shrouded. Planet with a crystalline surface would be interesting if the terrain could explode everytime a unit makes an area terrain "cover" save. Probably better when there is just one roll for the entire game. Nightfight is already covered and hinders shooty armies. Perhaps another would be more akin to "mud" where its more difficult to move across the table for assault armies. Methane gases make it dangerous to use template weapons. Terrain makes it dangerous to use blast weapons. Things like that.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
no, it's just an environment condition happens like Nightfight, so maybe if a 4+ weather comes on.
then D6 to determine what type of weather.

How is that not random? My point is you're adding more random elements to an already incredibly random game. The difference is, that when I shoot 50+ guns, my odds are pretty good. If I roll 3 dice as my example, it could be very easy to get night, rain, rain. Which would mean my gun-line would be drastically weakened for 3 turns. Whereas my assault based army would be laughing at the easy ride.

Adding too many random elements doesn't make the game more fun, it can easily end up in one sided games where a couple of poor rolls costs a player a fair match. It can make people feel like they can't do anything about their situation, which isn't fun, nor is it engaging.

It's also adding more book-keeping which as a personal opinion I'm not in favor of.

Well I guess it is, then again what isn't?

It's not like Night fight doesn't exist right now, it would be a modification to night fight.
Well, these rules aren't fixed they are just open for discussion, same thing for Night fight though it reduces your shooting effectiveness as well and nobody is really complaining about that.

I didn't really mean every turn it would be equivalent to how Nightfighting works or maybe have it's own effect per weather, again it's only for discussion.

Having this forces you to have an all rounded army instead of spamming ranged or CC.
Snow reduces effectiveness of assault and rain reduces shooting, pretty fair if they both could happen.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Don't limit yourselves to just weather. Fighting on a Planet with an atmosphere of explosive, toxic gases would have radically different effects than night fighting giving you shrouded. Planet with a crystalline surface would be interesting if the terrain could explode everytime a unit makes an area terrain "cover" save. Probably better when there is just one roll for the entire game. Nightfight is already covered and hinders shooty armies. Perhaps another would be more akin to "mud" where its more difficult to move across the table for assault armies. Methane gases make it dangerous to use template weapons. Terrain makes it dangerous to use blast weapons. Things like that.

Yeah, that would be so cool, so that people can spam certain things as much as they would like which is a good thing.

I wanted to play a game with my bud where all the terrain was on fire. To simulate smoke I proposed that the wind would blow 2d6 + scatter to determine if LOS was blocked or something of the sort............he said he just wanted to play a normal game. How boring.

maybe lightning strikes the tallest model within 12"? might be hard to do though, but this would mean having trees or ruins would cause the lightning to hit them instead of your army

Makutsu wrote:Do you think we should add some weather to the game?

Like rain could reduce range by 6",
Snow reduces movement by 2"

Thunderstorm does 1 S4 hit to anything that has nothing on top of them, or is beside a tree.

Whirlwind puts a large circle that travels across the board and roll 2D6 + Scatter dice to see where it goes that turn, and people in it can't shoot or assault do to huge winds.

Oops should be in proposed rules~
Move to proposed rules please

How do you handle rain for short ranged weapons? I'm talking about Fusion Pistols and the likes. Maybe you should instead impose penalties like night fighting. Idea/example:
Scorching / active volcano. All terrain is difficult terrain, when running roll an extra dice and discard the highest, remove all vegetation terrain from the board (replace with dead vegetation if possible) these areas are no longer area terrain.
Heat wave. When running, roll an extra dice and discard the highest.
Sunny or overcast. No effect.
Light drizzle. Basic cover starts at 7+ and is improved by one per full 24".
Rain. Basic cover starts at 7+ and is improved by one per full 12".
Tropical skyfall. Basic cover starts at 6+ and is improved by one per full 6", all terrain is difficult terrain.

Griddlelol wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Do you think we should add some weather to the game?

Weather or night fighting. Too much randomness hurts the game. What if it's night fighting turn one, then rain on turn 2 and 3? My shooty army would be pointless.

I'm not against this idea per se, I'm just not really into the randomness of it all. I loathe losing over a reason I can't control...in any game (*cough* SSBB *cough*).

Weather, unlike the bloody time of the day, is something you have significantly less ability to control. I mean, when you show up at a battle by large both sides will know the local time of the day and quite often will be able to take measures prior to running out on the field. Rain? It happens. It's not completely random, but if you set up a list you can weight the randomness according to planet, time of day, mood or whatever.

What is should be is it nerfs movement and shooting so in rain -1 to hit and say roll 2d6 and use the highest fo movement in rain therfore no one wins

flash floods. on a 1 unit can't move.

I'm for a weather table, but I think Night Fighting should be on it, rather than in addition to it.

As a side note, we've done flood games in our local store. First turn, the flooding hasn't arrived. Second turn, everything on the ground level is difficult terrain. Third turn, ground level is dangerous terrain, anything one terrain level up is difficult, and anything higher is fine. Every turn thereafter, the water level moves one step higher. (After dangerous, anything left behind is swept away, barring skimmers, flyers, and amphibious vehicles.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'm for a weather table, but I think Night Fighting should be on it, rather than in addition to it.

As a side note, we've done flood games in our local store. First turn, the flooding hasn't arrived. Second turn, everything on the ground level is difficult terrain. Third turn, ground level is dangerous terrain, anything one terrain level up is difficult, and anything higher is fine. Every turn thereafter, the water level moves one step higher. (After dangerous, anything left behind is swept away, barring skimmers, flyers, and amphibious vehicles.)

amphibious vehicles....another perk for IG...

 Makutsu wrote:

Having this forces you to have an all rounded army instead of spamming ranged or CC.
Snow reduces effectiveness of assault and rain reduces shooting, pretty fair if they both could happen.

Tell that to Tau, IG, SM, or anything Khorne.

I think you should have different weather tables, with similar weather hazards grouped together. It'd be pretty silly to have a sandstorm on an ice world, for example. You could then roll on whichever table is appropriate for the terrain you're using. If your terrain is too nondescript to determine the weather, or if you and your opponent can't agree on a single choice, then you roll at the beginning of the game to see what table you'll use.

I also thought of an interesting idea for tornadoes. Say you roll for or choose the table that has tornadoes as a possibility, then you end up getting a tornado. It would go something like this:

Divide the table into 6 equal sections, and roll a d6. Place a large blast marker in the center of the chosen section. A tornado has formed! Immediately roll 2d6 and a scatter die to determine the direction and distance the tornado will travel. Repeat this at the beginning of each game turn. If the tornado goes off the board, it has dissipated and may not re-enter. If a tornado result is rolled on the chart while a tornado is currently on the table, ignore that result.

Any unit that contains a model which is underneath the blast marker at any point (including when it scatters) is caught in the tornado. Roll a d6 for each unit affected this way; on a 6, they've managed to find something to grab on to, or a vehicle has found extra traction, or something to that effect, and the tornado is ignored. On a 1-5, the unit is picked up by the tornado and moved.

For infantry models, roll 2d6 and a scatter. For vehicles, roll 1d6 and a scatter. Move the models and redeploy them using the rules for Deep Strike. Any unit that cannot be placed has been killed by the tornado.

An infantry unit that encounters a tornado can choose to Go To Ground, increasing their chances of surviving the tornado. A unit that has gone to ground can ignore the tornado's effects on a 4+, instead of a 6 as normal.

Vehicles with the Heavy classification are immune to the effects of tornadoes.

Any close combats that are disrupted by a tornado end immediately, with the result being considered a draw.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:

Having this forces you to have an all rounded army instead of spamming ranged or CC.
Snow reduces effectiveness of assault and rain reduces shooting, pretty fair if they both could happen.

Tell that to Tau, IG, SM, or anything Khorne.

The system just makes the overall usefulness lower by a bit, like it won't really hurt IG that much if they get their guns reduced by 6" or something, but it's something to take in consider instead of just spamming lot of same genre of units.
IG have some CC units as well, how effective I'm not sure, but if your shooting is weakened so will your opponents.

It's just to hope that people have something to consider, instead of saying 9 vendettas and I'm done if there was say a weather rule that would distrupt fliers heavily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wfischer wrote:
I think you should have different weather tables, with similar weather hazards grouped together. It'd be pretty silly to have a sandstorm on an ice world, for example. You could then roll on whichever table is appropriate for the terrain you're using. If your terrain is too nondescript to determine the weather, or if you and your opponent can't agree on a single choice, then you roll at the beginning of the game to see what table you'll use.

I also thought of an interesting idea for tornadoes. Say you roll for or choose the table that has tornadoes as a possibility, then you end up getting a tornado. It would go something like this:

Divide the table into 6 equal sections, and roll a d6. Place a large blast marker in the center of the chosen section. A tornado has formed! Immediately roll 2d6 and a scatter die to determine the direction and distance the tornado will travel. Repeat this at the beginning of each game turn. If the tornado goes off the board, it has dissipated and may not re-enter. If a tornado result is rolled on the chart while a tornado is currently on the table, ignore that result.

Any unit that contains a model which is underneath the blast marker at any point (including when it scatters) is caught in the tornado. Roll a d6 for each unit affected this way; on a 6, they've managed to find something to grab on to, or a vehicle has found extra traction, or something to that effect, and the tornado is ignored. On a 1-5, the unit is picked up by the tornado and moved.

For infantry models, roll 2d6 and a scatter. For vehicles, roll 1d6 and a scatter. Move the models and redeploy them using the rules for Deep Strike. Any unit that cannot be placed has been killed by the tornado.

An infantry unit that encounters a tornado can choose to Go To Ground, increasing their chances of surviving the tornado. A unit that has gone to ground can ignore the tornado's effects on a 4+, instead of a 6 as normal.

Vehicles with the Heavy classification are immune to the effects of tornadoes.

Any close combats that are disrupted by a tornado end immediately, with the result being considered a draw.

That's actually pretty cool, though I think it shouldn't be punishing at the beginning when the Tornado forms.
Let's say, units get pushed to the edge of the large blast as if they were running away from the tornado, or immediately fallback and regroup once the tornado hits.

The original idea of having weather is so that you would have to adjust your playing style depending on what is actually happening on the field.
Let's say avoiding the tornado so that you don't get caught and die.

Well if you would have weather that shortened weapon range by 6'' (im taking rapid fire weapons for example). You could just subtract movement and charge by 1/4th (mud due to rain for example). It might not be the best of solutions, but it wont be as negative to shooty armies this way.

We created our own chart for weather and terrain effects, but we roll up games and THEN figure out our forces so you usually have an idea what you'll be going into.

We have heavy rain/mist as a -1 BS to all units.
~ Heavy mud treats open ground as difficult.
~ High winds add D3" to scatter rolls and eliminates smoke (with an additional rule for spreading fires)

It's possible to get more than one option, and to have Hostile Terrain as well but that's another story!

Kinda helps (not really but) there are some neat effects in the 6th brb under war zone traits.

some that i like.
"6. SUB-ZERO
Bitter winds anddistant orbit render this world an icywasteland
that saps heat and strength from allwho battle here. Such isthe
dreadful cold that every misstep can be fatal, with bones and flesh
shearing offwithevery tumble.
Dangerous Terrainrollsanywhereon the battlefield arefailed
on the score of a 1or 2. In addition, Weapons with the Gets Hot
special rule lose it for this game."

"5. WARP WINDS
TheDark Gods ofChaos have blessed (or cursed) this place with
their power. Any psyker who practises his art upon this world runs
an increased risk ofdrawing the attention ofsoul-hungry Daemons.
For the duration of the game,Perilsof the Warp occurson the
roll of any double wherrtaking Psychictests.Even Daemonsare
affectedby this rule (the DarkGodsare capricious, after all)."

Also before war zone traits there are rules for lightning strikes and even the "warp storm" lol

Errr....

Considering the weather conditions people dream up, I'd suggest you make two separate tables.
Common Weather
Extreme Conditions

Or maybe a table for different planet types.
Agri-World (mild weather, if it's an actual Eldar maiden planet then the weather would be extremely kind)
Young World (extreme weather leaning towards quakes and lava)
Distant World (weather leaning towards snow and cold)
Hive World (city fighting terrain, weather leaning towards rain, smog, and night fighting)

I do like the idea of a whirlwind. possibly the size of a large blast template, moves 2d6 and is dangerous terrain to anything it crosses. all that sounds awesome. however I don't think that you should get too carried away with the weather idea. remember this game is about beating your opponent's (models') brains out and it's not as fun when most of the causalities come from outside forces that you can't control.

I'm working on rules for this very type of thing and have been for a few months now called Extreme Conditions.

Still a work in progress, but I have several new types of battlefields done up (Underwater, Jungle, and Arctic).

Isnt this a bit like death worlds with the whirlwind and lightning



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Errr....

Considering the weather conditions people dream up, I'd suggest you make two separate tables.
Common Weather
Extreme Conditions

Or maybe a table for different planet types.
Agri-World (mild weather, if it's an actual Eldar maiden planet then the weather would be extremely kind)
Young World (extreme weather leaning towards quakes and lava)
Distant World (weather leaning towards snow and cold)
Hive World (city fighting terrain, weather leaning towards rain, smog, and night fighting)

again a lot like death worlds