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Sorry if this has already been done to death, but could not find any recent topics like this.

In 5th there were a lot of viable CC dedicated armies like BA, BT, GK, Nids... basically every army had a viable CC style.
Seeing how the 6th edition changed the game into more of a shooting fest, the way assaulting is done also changed with overwatch and random charge range etc.
So in you opinion what is the best assault armies of 6th edition out there? The armies that make you go "Oh cr*p" as you see them moving down the board towards your guys or gals?
I should also point out that I want you to take an army as a whole into account, not just a certain model or squad.

I would have to say Nids and the CD codex looks promising (I would be biased if I said BA )

It is true that assault has been nerfed a little but quite frankly this is the 41st millenium. Shooting rules.

If you really want to assault consider:

BA-tons of nasty assault stuff combined with power armour=nasty

GK-these guys stealth your ass

Orks-need i say any more?

Nids-possibly the scariest thing unless you have flamers

Khorne Armies are pretty good at assault. CSM Khorne Lists can be scary if played right.

By played right I mean you plan the entire game and adapt as things hit you. Send the AP4 Zerkers after the stuff with Sv 4+ or worse. And if there isn't any, send them at Tactical Termies and let weight of attacks do the work.

Or send the Khorne Daemon Prince with Axe of Blind Fury in at whatever.



Khorne Daemons could be good. Haven't seen the book but I don't imagine them that different. Simply choose targets as above.






Nids are another class altogether. You must be completely in tune to really appreciate them. The unit selection, synergy, psykers, Hordes, Monstrous Creatures, Fortifications, everything. You must know what you are doing to be competitive and win.

But even just playing for fun, these list are immensely fun to play

Orks, drown em in bodies!

BT gets around with ablative wounds (Neophytes), getting a huge footslog CC squad across the table in usually one turn (Righteous Zeal), and getting itself into cover or setting up fake-out charges (Unmatched Zeal). A proper Black Tide is 25 guys, 13 of which are cannon fodder, so nowhere near as bad as people may think. Also a Termi LRC Deathstar.

My biggest problem with CC armies (I play Orks) is that when you send that awesome anti-tank unit to take out a tank, the Result: Explodes often times eliminates more of YOUR units than it does your opponent. And I almost always explode tanks with my Power Klaws.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Orks, drown em in bodies!

BT gets around with ablative wounds (Neophytes), getting a huge footslog CC squad across the table in usually one turn (Righteous Zeal), and getting itself into cover or setting up fake-out charges (Unmatched Zeal). A proper Black Tide is 25 guys, 13 of which are cannon fodder, so nowhere near as bad as people may think. Also a Termi LRC Deathstar.

A Black Templar black tide list is very nasty if it is done right. Watched a game where a guy had over 40 Marines, Grimaldus and neophytes in his blob squads with shotguns for the sole purpose of overwatch and thinning out numbers. Toss in a few Stormtalons and you have yourself a very nasty list, this guy took on a green tide list (was actually cool to watch) and won

I miss the old fleet rule but o well. Orks all the way

 master of ordinance wrote:

BA-tons of nasty assault stuff combined with power armour=nasty

GK-these guys stealth your ass

Orks-need i say any more?

Nids-possibly the scariest thing unless you have flamers

Wow, I think I disagree with everything you said...except for Orks (just).

BA have moved away from CC. They're too elite, with troops that aren't anything more than MEQ and can't risk it. It's not really viable for BA to go all out assault anymore. I see far more mech lists and shooting heavy lists with the odd assault squad.

GK aren't an assault army. They may look like it if you look at the box the models come in, but as soon as you read the codex and see a single squad putting out 16 str:5 and 8 str:8 shots per turn, you realise that the best thing for them to do is indeed blast their opponent from the table.
Couple that in with Psyflemen dreads and you have a disgusting shooting force of multiple medium to high strength shots.

Orks have definitely retained some assault element (in the form of Nob Bikers) but frankly shoota boys and Lootas really let them shift into the current meta of gun-heavy lists.

Nids...I don't know why flamers would scare the spammable monstrous creature lists that are everywhere. 4 t7-t9 units on the table, with spawning gants. They don't give a gak about flamers.

 Griddlelol wrote:


Nids...I don't know why flamers would scare the spammable monstrous creature lists that are everywhere. 4 t7-t9 units on the table, with spawning gants. They don't give a gak about flamers.

And the lord saeth unto the Imperial Guard "On the fifth day you will have Vendettas"!

 gmaleron wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Orks, drown em in bodies!

BT gets around with ablative wounds (Neophytes), getting a huge footslog CC squad across the table in usually one turn (Righteous Zeal), and getting itself into cover or setting up fake-out charges (Unmatched Zeal). A proper Black Tide is 25 guys, 13 of which are cannon fodder, so nowhere near as bad as people may think. Also a Termi LRC Deathstar.

A Black Templar black tide list is very nasty if it is done right. Watched a game where a guy had over 40 Marines, Grimaldus and neophytes in his blob squads with shotguns for the sole purpose of overwatch and thinning out numbers. Toss in a few Stormtalons and you have yourself a very nasty list, this guy took on a green tide list (was actually cool to watch) and won

For myself I run a list that a lot of people think is weird using the black tide idea. I run 2 squads of 10 neophyte 10 initiate with 2 squads of 10 assault marines, grimaldus, EC-AAC a martial with a jump pack for the assault marines. all squads have max flamer amount and 2 MM in the initiate squads. sometimes run a tech marine just for a super star unit. Usually does well and scares the oppenent when turn 2 I am in their front lines with most of my guys and flanking with the assault marines. Only problem for me is the fact that atm I have no flyer defense at all. THen again not many people take them in my LFGS. Especially with this new book being released ( death from the skies I believe?). Making a few of us very upset with the fact we have to order it to get it.

Lunacara wrote:
For myself I run a list that a lot of people think is weird using the black tide idea. I run 2 squads of 10 neophyte 10 initiate with 2 squads of 10 assault marines, grimaldus, EC-AAC a martial with a jump pack for the assault marines. all squads have max flamer amount and 2 MM in the initiate squads. sometimes run a tech marine just for a super star unit. Usually does well and scares the oppenent when turn 2 I am in their front lines with most of my guys and flanking with the assault marines. Only problem for me is the fact that atm I have no flyer defense at all. THen again not many people take them in my LFGS. Especially with this new book being released ( death from the skies I believe?). Making a few of us very upset with the fact we have to order it to get it.

Personally am just using Army Builder, has the point values and everything and already looked up the flyer ace rule so really dont need the death from the skies book, there are ways around it

 gmaleron wrote:

Lunacara wrote:
For myself I run a list that a lot of people think is weird using the black tide idea. I run 2 squads of 10 neophyte 10 initiate with 2 squads of 10 assault marines, grimaldus, EC-AAC a martial with a jump pack for the assault marines. all squads have max flamer amount and 2 MM in the initiate squads. sometimes run a tech marine just for a super star unit. Usually does well and scares the oppenent when turn 2 I am in their front lines with most of my guys and flanking with the assault marines. Only problem for me is the fact that atm I have no flyer defense at all. THen again not many people take them in my LFGS. Especially with this new book being released ( death from the skies I believe?). Making a few of us very upset with the fact we have to order it to get it.

Personally am just using Army Builder, has the point values and everything and already looked up the flyer ace rule so really dont need the death from the skies book, there are ways around it

what is the new rules if I may ask? Cant find them anywhere

As far as I can tell the "Flyer Ace Rule" is you purchase it for 50pts the you roll on a D3 chart that gives you a certain ability for that game. Each army (Codex SM, BT, BA, GK, Orks, DE, ect.) each have their own set of ace skills they can get. The weirdest thing is that Space Wolves have a chart but they dont have any flyers....oh GW .Here is a link where a guy posted pictures of the book with the rules being shown :

http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/02/death-from-skies-rules-pictures.html

 gmaleron wrote:
As far as I can tell the "Flyer Ace Rule" is you purchase it for 50pts the you roll on a D3 chart that gives you a certain ability for that game. Each army (Codex SM, BT, BA, GK, Orks, DE, ect.) each have their own set of ace skills they can get. The weirdest thing is that Space Wolves have a chart but they dont have any flyers....oh GW .Here is a link where a guy posted pictures of the book with the rules being shown :

http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.com/2013/02/death-from-skies-rules-pictures.html

thanks you so much this has made my day thus far!

Black Tides are pretty durable, and you really only need the Characters inside to survive in order to do a surprising amount of damage. The hidden Power Fist/Axe helps as well.

Khorne daemonhorde, orkhorde, tyranidhorde, monstrous creature daemon spam. A lot of them are still good, but the trick is to get in quick.

Lots of oppinions!
Just to keep the thread going: is the Dark Eldar assault dead? In 5th it was very scary but now it feels as though they just vanished.

 Stvafel wrote:
Lots of oppinions!
Just to keep the thread going: is the Dark Eldar assault dead? In 5th it was very scary but now it feels as though they just vanished.

I'd say no. You can have your raider with a dissie on it to "soften up targets" and have your wyches assault them. They can bring lots of bodies to the field and Lileth is just scary on her own. Take those guys with some reavers for tanks and a couple of razorwings for flyer defense/ horde control and it should do alright. Just make sure to get those pain tokens ASAP as this will make them more durable( not like 5th but better none the less). Also with new rules for assaulting may help with this as we used to move 6 run 6 assault 6, now we can move 6 shoot (splinter pistols to soften) and then assault up to 12.

I believe that no list is "dead" just the easy way to play it is gone. Any good tactician could use any list almost and still win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you could play Haemonculus coven and take a bunch of Grotesques and wracks and talos/cronos pain engines to move slowly across the board, but I like wyches much better as I love the models more.

Assault is a steep, uphill battle in 6th edition. It already was in 5th (in the sense that the top armies were shooting armies), but 6th just sealed the deal.

If you're going to run units geared to deal with assaults, they're going to need some potent shooting too, and you should treat them as straight up shooting units for the most part, using the threat of assault for area denial. Otherwise it's very unlikely that they'll do anything of value.

 Stvafel wrote:
Lots of opinions!
Just to keep the thread going: is the Dark Eldar assault dead? In 5th it was very scary but now it feels as though they just vanished.

No, there's a GREAT DE/Eldar alliance which is based around assault with beasts. If you search for it in the Tactics section you'll find something good.

I played against it once. It was horrible!

 gmaleron wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Orks, drown em in bodies!

BT gets around with ablative wounds (Neophytes), getting a huge footslog CC squad across the table in usually one turn (Righteous Zeal), and getting itself into cover or setting up fake-out charges (Unmatched Zeal). A proper Black Tide is 25 guys, 13 of which are cannon fodder, so nowhere near as bad as people may think. Also a Termi LRC Deathstar.

A Black Templar black tide list is very nasty if it is done right. Watched a game where a guy had over 40 Marines, Grimaldus and neophytes in his blob squads with shotguns for the sole purpose of overwatch and thinning out numbers. Toss in a few Stormtalons and you have yourself a very nasty list, this guy took on a green tide list (was actually cool to watch) and won

I run a small throwaway shooting squad but one day Ill toss my two Typhoons and run double Black Tide with two Chaplains or Grim and EC/Chappy in the other. Ive got a game this weekend and finally bringing out the Talon and Raven.

Shop around on B&C youll find an updated BT Battlescribe list with flyers and the points and mistakes finally fixed. Works great!

 Griddlelol wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

BA-tons of nasty assault stuff combined with power armour=nasty

GK-these guys stealth your ass

Orks-need i say any more?

Nids-possibly the scariest thing unless you have flamers

Wow, I think I disagree with everything you said...except for Orks (just).

BA have moved away from CC. They're too elite, with troops that aren't anything more than MEQ and can't risk it. It's not really viable for BA to go all out assault anymore. I see far more mech lists and shooting heavy lists with the odd assault squad.

GK aren't an assault army. They may look like it if you look at the box the models come in, but as soon as you read the codex and see a single squad putting out 16 str:5 and 8 str:8 shots per turn, you realise that the best thing for them to do is indeed blast their opponent from the table.
Couple that in with Psyflemen dreads and you have a disgusting shooting force of multiple medium to high strength shots.

Orks have definitely retained some assault element (in the form of Nob Bikers) but frankly shoota boys and Lootas really let them shift into the current meta of gun-heavy lists.

Nids...I don't know why flamers would scare the spammable monstrous creature lists that are everywhere. 4 t7-t9 units on the table, with spawning gants. They don't give a gak about flamers.

I tend to find that the mass of smaller gribblies are easily dealt with in this manner.

I havnt looked at the GK codex yet so i cannot comment there but due to the stealth feild thingy and the inordinate amount of PWs i would have thought of them as a flexible army.

I would also have thought that the orks and BA would have retained their CC theme as it is most inkeeping with the fluff for them......

I'm faring better with my 'Nids in combat than Blood Angels in 6th.

Not many players in my group are taking extra flamers and killing 3 gaunts on the charge doesn't make much of an impact if the unit is large enough.

Weight of numbers in troops supported by warriors will cause most all but the shootiest of armies problems.

So it is correct to assume that to be successfull with CC in 6th edition you need the body count that horde armies provide? Seeing as most people mention BT, Nids and Orks.

 Stvafel wrote:
So it is correct to assume that to be successfull with CC in 6th edition you need the body count that horde armies provide? Seeing as most people mention BT, Nids and Orks.

More or less. But you need tricks to get them across the board quick or keep casualties down. Kustom Force Field and Trukks work great for Orks, Righteous/Unmatched Zeal and Neophyte cannon fodder for the Templars, etc. Im not too familiar with the Nids although I am working on a small army (just painting, not worrying about tactics yet).

You don't have to be horde, you have to be fast. CSM Juggerlord with Spawns, for exampe, is a really nasty CC unit that, when combined with Raptors or Bikers makes for a pretty CC-centric army.

 matphat wrote:
My biggest problem with CC armies (I play Orks) is that when you send that awesome anti-tank unit to take out a tank, the Result: Explodes often times eliminates more of YOUR units than it does your opponent. And I almost always explode tanks with my Power Klaws.

If you don't like that, you're playing the wrong army. Cause that what orks do.

 Stvafel wrote:
So it is correct to assume that to be successful with CC in 6th edition you need the body count that horde armies provide? Seeing as most people mention BT, Nids and Orks.

To be successful at CC you have to roll above average. BT aren't good, Orks have moved towards shooting and NIds rely on MCs, not bodies.

The best lists generally have one or two dedicated CC squads that are fast enough to get into CC by turn 2. If you can't manage that, you're going to have a hard time. Examples of Necron Wraiths and Nurgle Spawn that can get into CC quickly, while the rest of the list provides fire support.

Going full out CC list is asking for a lot of losses.

Yeah... I beat up a Wych army with Thousand Sons.

 Griddlelol wrote:

some BT players aren't good,

Fixed