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Since the advent of 6th, I've been having some problems killing a particular style of Tau: the Railgun List, 7 Broadsides and a Hammerhead.

I play GK gunline, but unfortunately my range is shorter (significantly) than his. Railguns murder my Termies and Dreads (I can only make so many ADL saves), and since they're twin-linked, are even scary for my StormRaven. Also, a plasma-suit squad is scary against anything.

I'd like some general thoughts about Tau, and general strategies against them.

300 guardsmen and a sense of humor do the job pretty well.

I'm less knowledgable about grey knight strategies. How are your termies getting to those rail guns?

Get into CC and stuff them in a sack and beat them against a rock...dont try to out gun the railguns, just deepstrike, or whatever the GK use to move quickly.

Honestly I am glad to hear somebody having problems with fighting the Tau.

Teleporting dredknights?
deep strike the termies, get rends with psycannons on the broadsides and profit.

Can't broadsides only come in squads of 3?
So thats 6 and 1 hammerhead

 iGuy91 wrote:
Teleporting dredknights?
deep strike the termies, get rends with psycannons on the broadsides and profit.

Can't broadsides only come in squads of 3?
So thats 6 and 1 hammerhead

Unless it is double force org. Would it be best if us "helpful" folk were to provide a general guideline to fighitng tau unit by unit?

Here's how you beat the Tau Railgun spam with IG.

Step 1. Kill FW
Step 2. Hide and camp on 1 objective
Step 3. Win

If you really want to beat Broadsides, I suggest shooting small arms fire into them first if they have drones. Once drones are dead then you hit them with S8+ weapons.

Avoid shooting at the Hammerhead. It's going to kill 1 unit per turn with the railgun, so just get close with something to either remove the cover bonus or force him to keep moving to less preferable positions.

Short answer, your stragey is flawed.

Yes the GK are a great gunline army, one of the greatest gunlines in the game.

However, the Tau are the greatest gunline army in the game, so you are playing to their strength.

If you want to kill Tau you need to get into their face fast with units that can survive the deluge of fire, then assault them.

Jefffar wrote:


However, the Tau are the greatest gunline army in the game, so you are playing to their strength.

*cough* IG would contest that *cough*

I agree though. GK are incredibly versatile, you just need to switch your tactics up and get all up in their gak. When my SW come against Tau, I just plough forward past the midway point and jump into combat. Coupled with DPs and fast moving units you can force them to make tough decisions on what to shoot at.

GK can't get DPs, but you have shunting DKs, shunting PA GKs and Draigo T1 deep strike which will really help in getting up in their face, giving the rest of your list time to move forward. Still, I wouldn't change your list too much, just make able to adapt to different opponents.

Easy mode, get into close combat, dreadknights, storm shields, flyers (kinda).

hard mode, use extensive cover and LOS blocking terrain.

also generally because that many rails tend to be expensive they will likely not have many troops. try to eat them.

Broadsides aren't exactly cheap, but they aren't hard to fit into Tau lists. I usually run light on infantry and hope for the best.
Easiest way to look at it though, is that it's an objective game.
What's going to be harder to get off an objective, FW or GK? Get some GK on an objective and hide as best you can, try to kill off FW first so you can have something to fall back on. Next it's as simple as deepstriking some firepower close to suits and shooting them down. Also remember that Tau LD isn't that great, so try to force morale checks when you can.

Really the problem looks like you're trying to play it safe and stay in cover. Use those saves and get your units moving down field. Press them back and they will crumble.

Note: You're right, I think it is only 6 Broadsides.

Maybe I do just need to move forward more. I take 3 Psyflemen, which don't need to move. I do always take an ADL, and sit around with one squad and the Dreads. The other squad, though, always moves forward (either in Rhino or on foot).

I do always have Reserves: 5 Termies (2 psycannon) DS, and the other 5 in a StormRaven. But these things get shot to death before they can make it into combat. I will try DS one of my GKSS.

The last game I played was Relic, and I managed to tie. Most of my stuff was dead, and I had grabbed the Relic with three different units, all of which got shot to death. He got Linebreaker (Stealth Suits) and I got First Blood. I never made it into assault.

Ah also a thought, since you are talking an ADL, you can grab the las cannon with a vindicare assassin. to kill a suit per turn. if your lucky they may run off the board.

its expensive but you can also use that to ID tau HQs

Stealth suits?! I'm surprised they lived that long. Not a difficult unit to take down, not with S5 bolters.

The Psyflemen dreads are going to be risky. You one shot broadsides, but a broadside can one shot you from further away while denying a cover save. Broadsides also get the luxury of a 2+ save and shield drones (assuming he got it)

The relic is a game I particulary find easy to play as Tau. Most players rush to get the relic, not realizing that Tau scoring units aren't going to rush out for an objective they really can't hold well. The relic should be a secondary objective for you in that game. Focus on taking down his units and push forward, ignoring the relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
agree on the Vindicare idea. Either the ADL or a bastion, either way those things are an absolute pain.

The suits "infiltrated" into his deployment zone, because of clever placement of Servo Skulls on my part, so they spent the whole time trudging across the (Hammer and Anvil) field and killed a few warrior acolytes. They were out of range of my shooting most of the time, and I shoot at FW whenever I get the chance (they're scary!)

And yes, all his suits have those cursed drones.

I like the idea of my Vindicare on a Lascannon. I always take her, even though she misses/fails to wound about 50% of the time. BS 8 and wound on a 2+, or AP 4D6+3+rend....and yep, still wasted about half the time. Like last game, where I got a rear shot on a vehicle (AV10) and didn't even glance. AUGH.

Well on the bright side if you allocate with the vind they cant take shield saves so hello instant death broadside/suits and possibility up to 2 drones.

another ok contender if your into that sort of thing are those psycher henchmen squads. large blast up to str 10 ap 1 at 36" is nothing to laugh at. that also opens up the use of crusaiders with shield drones and DCA with power axe? (they can tank a power axe and a power sword right? thats a pretty decent way of taking out 2+ and 3+ depending on the situation).

FW seem scary at first till you look at their stats. Forget the gun, because you can bring something good on a better model. The FW are BS3, T3, 4+ save, and LD7 base. All you need to do is hit these guys with basic bolters, you wound on 2+ and try to get them to run. GK should not be scared of FW.

Stealth suit actually did what I expected. They're a silly and weak unit with a good cover save. I wouldn't focus too much on them.

The important thing about the vindicare is you want the shield drones gone first. It's really going to hurt a lot if you're wasting that shot on a 50% invul save 1 wound model.

 Savageconvoy wrote:


The important thing about the vindicare is you want the shield drones gone first. It's really going to hurt a lot if you're wasting that shot on a 50% invul save 1 wound model.

actually that is a non issue considering vindicares deadshot. letting him allocate where he wants. and if the target is a character the shot cant be LoSed thanks to faq.

edit in fact, its even better considering if you kill the suit you also take up to 2 drones that the suit bought.

I was thinking the rule applied to only his gun, but you're right. That one shot would be enough to take down an entire unit of Broadsides. Leaving the rest to focus on the other broadside unit.

Though if Tau goes first he should target the lascannon first, it would still leave a very dangerous vindicare left.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I was thinking the rule applied to only his gun, but you're right. That one shot would be enough to take down an entire unit of Broadsides. Leaving the rest to focus on the other broadside unit.

Though if Tau goes first he should target the lascannon first, it would still leave a very dangerous vindicare left.

It should be fine to start the vindi out of LOS and man it after (hide it behind a rhino or the rifleman) as i don't think you can shoot a ADL las without something manning it right?

I've played agaisnt a few Vindicares in y time with Tau, hee's what happens.

Step 1: I shine markerlights on her and strip away her cover save.

Step 2: A squad of firewarriors boosted to BS 4 or 5 shoots at her, she dies.

Alternate: Smart Missile System salvo annihilates her.

If you have one super killer gun in your army, I'm going to deploy the stuff it instant deaths out of line of sight from it whenever possible.

Killing tau with grey knights is a bit of a speciality of mine, so hopefully this helps:

1) Deepstriking - Broadsides are horrible to face, but don't have a lot of shots. If you can put 'something' (my current favorite is Mordak and his ghost knight posse, but i've also run a callidus assassin with some limited success) next to them and weather just one turn of tau firepower, they will get eaten in CC quite handily.

2) Target Priority - I like to use Dreadknights, but any beefy unit should work. Not so much because they are more effective vs broadsides than they are anything else, but because they 'will' recieving an unholy amount of fire from the tau player who is trying like mad to keep it from their front lines, allowing one to have much more freedom in deploying and utilizing grey knight shorter ranged shooting.

3) Mobility in General - (ties in with # 1) Your guys have no fear whatsoever of getting into CC with 'anything' in the tau army. Therefore it's your job vs tau is to insure that your units end up on the enemies' side of the board as quickly as you can manage it. Do that well enough and your tau opponent will be coming to the boards looking to find out how he can take out the grey knight menace.

4) Template weapons with AP-4 or lower. Most broadsides and other tau shooting units tend to hug cover like it's a teddybear. Denying them that (and their armor save in a lot of cases as well) goes a long way to rolling them up in style.


A 'For example'

Played with mordrak + goons (and a divination inquisitor to give them a psycannon and prescience), a couple squads of interceptors and a dreadknight one game (amongst other things, i think i took a couple small squads of strikes and a couple of psiflemen too). Had all of them (the deepstriking HQs and teleporting units) in the enemy deployment zone by the end of turn 1. What happened in subsequent turns wasn't pretty...

Tau are a bad match up for GK army on army. You bring allies in the mix it can be a better fight. First off if he brings 1 FOC he can't bring 7 broadsides and a hammerhead. Either 6 and a hammerhead or just 7 88's. He has a lot tied up in heavy support. I wouldn't worry about his hammerhead, as it has 1 big s10 shot or the big blast which won't do much to you as it's ap4. If he has a plasma cannon hammerhead look out they are nasty. Drop his troops and crisis suits w/ plasma rifles. The suits will drop termys and marines all day. Broadsides basically get one shot w/ a decent chance of hitting. Tie them up w/ cheap deepstrikes if you can and beat him w/ numbers. I'm a Tau player and GK are an elite low model count army, perfect for the Tau. Also if he has tetras eliminate them early or it's game over. Best of luck!!

Thanks for the advice, all. Hopefully my next game against those cursed Tau will go better!

 Neorealist wrote:

1) Deepstriking - Broadsides are horrible to face, but don't have a lot of shots. If you can put 'something' (my current favorite is Mordak and his ghost knight posse, but i've also run a callidus assassin with some limited success) next to them and weather just one turn of tau firepower, they will get eaten in CC quite handily.

When I take broadsides I give them plasmas and multitrackers. If people deep strike terminators next to me I shoot them with 9 twin linked shots, often at BS 5, 3 of which are S10 and saved for characters or mulit wound models. Make sure your opponent doesn't run them like this if your going to DS termies next to them. Otherwise its a sound tactic.

Not many people run the Broadsides with Plasma rifles, though it's not a bad upgrade for them.

Also I don't see Tau as being a tough match up for GK. Pulse rifles at BS3 are about as dangerous to a marine as a bolter. GK bolters on the other hand wound FW on 2+ and 3+ against suits. Their shooting tends to get a lot better from there. It may be short ranged, but I don't think GK would have trouble pressing forward.

The plasma rifles aren't as big a problem as you'd think; given the broadsides have to be 'alive' to shoot them (the grey knight player is likely peg at least one of them statistically with their initial storm bolter, psycannon, etc. shots based on volume of fire alone) and you'd also typically have cover or at least the 5+ invuln save to fall back on too. It is my experience that even if your tau player 'has' the perfect anti-terminator loadout on them, it's 'still' the best tactical choice to put units up close and personal to them to negate their ranged advantage.

Also your example presumes a lot of things: not the least of which is that the broadside unit often has at least 2 markerlight tokens on its target for you to expend 'and' somehow manages to magically direct the railgun shots differently to the plasma ones despite them being fired at the same time.

In truth i cannot think of a single available option for a tau army that would do enough to insure that the grey knight players' army is better off maintaining their distance as opposed to rushing them.

 Neorealist wrote:
The plasma rifles aren't as big a problem as you'd think; given the broadsides have to be 'alive' to shoot them (the grey knight player is likely peg at least one of them statistically with their initial storm bolter, psycannon, etc. shots based on volume of fire alone) and you'd also typically have cover or at least the 5+ invuln save to fall back on too. It is my experience that even if your tau player 'has' the perfect anti-terminator loadout on them, it's 'still' the best tactical choice to put units up close and personal to them to negate their ranged advantage.

Also your example presumes a lot of things: not the least of which is that the broadside unit often has at least 2 markerlight tokens on its target for you to expend 'and' somehow manages to magically direct the railgun shots differently to the plasma ones despite them being fired at the same time.

In truth i cannot think of a single available option for a tau army that would do enough to insure that the grey knight players' army is better off maintaining their distance as opposed to rushing them.

The wound allocation is not 'magical'. Read the box at the bottom of page 15 on mixed wounds.
"If, after rolling to wound, the wound pool contains groups of wounds with different strengths, AP values or special rules, then each of these groups is resolved separately, using the relevant method described above. You, as the shooting player, get to choose the order in which these groups are resolved."

I always take shield drones on my broadsides and take two squads of broadsides as well. They come in at around 600 points but they do a number on anyone and can soak up a lot of firepower as they have a 2+ save which must be allocated to the drones first (particularly the type of firepower you describe psycannon stormbolter etc).

I use tetras so usually have spare markerlights but understand that this may not be possible if you do not use FW models. Either way the shots are twin linked. This is also important for the subsequent overwatch fire.

This is an expensive way to run the unit but I think it is points effective. The counter for this is light infantry, fast moving swarms, anything that can soak up wounds and not care. What this unit excels against is heavy infantry, particularly at close range, and vehicles. That is why I would check the load out before DS termies next to them.

You are, of course, correct about the need to rush tau armies. I have taken several beatings from GK using precisely this approach. It is important, however, that the right units rush the right units if you understand my meaning.

I'm familiar with how wound allocation works; I took issue with equating 'being able to choose which wound pools are rolled against first, second, etc' with 'being able to select which models must roll against specific wounds' like your earlier comment appeared to indicate. The latter ability is one found on characters only, not broadsides in general.

As for shield drones? it's likely that your deepstriking blob of terminators or what have you will deploy such that the drones are furthest from their point of entry with the broadsides themselves being the closest targets for the purposes of wound allocation. At least, that is how i would do it if at all possible.

Yeah, tetras really are the way to go for markerlights, the resident tau player at my location swears by them as well.

Sorry mate, I wasn't assuming that you didn't understand how wound allocation works. I am new to forums and am not very good at getting the tone right. I find that through using the different strength wound pools at different times you can influence who gets hit with what (look out sirs not withstanding). If a multiwound character is at the front of the unit then i would use the S10 pool first, if he is further back I use the S6 pool first. Although I cannot choose who gets hit with what, I have a great deal of influence over it.

Shield drones ignore normal wound allocation. Wounds must be allocated to them first, regardelss of where the shots come from. This means that to reduce the shooting effectiveness of the unit you must do at least 4 wounds which is difficult on models with a 2+ save (disreguarding instant kills). Other units will of course be targetting the broadsides as well which is why I run two units like this, even if one gets gimped the other will still be ok.

As I said, I understand that this approach has worked for you against broadsides, I just wouldn't advise it against this loadout. Deepstriking near this loadout may work, if it is with a dedicated shooting unit, which can peel the shield drones and kill a broadside but mordrak and co will not do this statistically without other ranged support.

 jamin484 wrote:
...
Shield drones ignore normal wound allocation. Wounds must be allocated to them first, regardelss of where the shots come from.
...

Where did this rule come from?


*Grumbles as I go to check tau FAQs*