Putting Scouts in a Stormraven.

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**UltraTacSgt**

I want to put a nice cheap unit in my new Stormraven. I plan on using it to drop on an objective late game, or use it to mop up a weakened unit, or potentially to grenade a piece of armor.

Marines in general are terrible at melee, and one of my main opponents runs a CC scout squad against me all the time. We always end up with a Tac squad tied up with the scouts for 3-4 turns unless one of us gets lucky dice or piles in something better to tip the fight for us. His scouts seem to always do all their damage with their shotguns on the turn they charge and then with the extra CC attacks from charging. After that, like I mentioned, it's just a slap fight between two melee incapable units.

I am thinking of running three shotguns and two CCW/BP and Melta Bombs on the Sgt.
I like the shotguns because I figure I will have two rounds to shoot, one when they hop out of the SR and one the round after when they move in and assault.
The CCW/BP on the Sgt and one other are to give them a bit of punch to clean up whatever unit they hit.
The melta bombs are in case I get a shot at a Dread or some piece of armor.

I only have 80pts to play with for this unit.

Anyone have any advice or experience in equipping and using scouts in this type of roll? Also, would the scouts give the Stormraven outflank?

**juraigamer**

For assault minded scouts, shotguns are key. The reason being is you are an average shot, but crap in melee due to WS 3.

Do you plan on shooting the scouts out with the special rule? If so you can always use normal CCW scouts since running might be in order, otherwise if you are getting out normally go shotguns all day.

**UltraTacSgt**

I am not planning on going skimmer for the safety of some scouts so yeah, they'll probably be jumping and making use of their Move through Cover. The uncertainty of the situation they will be in is why I am looking to split their weapons, so I can shoot for a turn or two if I need to, or charge to try and mop up in CC, or toss a melta bomb at something. I don't feel like I'd be losing much if I needed to run them for a turn instead of shooting or whatever.

**Mannahnin**

Sounds like a viable plan to me. It's kind of like how Necrons use a min unit of warriors in a Night Scythe, but with a bit more assaulty of a unit, and a more expensive but up-armored and up-gunned vehicle. There is a danger of Crash & Burn, of course, but you're sinking minimal points into the unit. Might consider scrounging up 15 to give them camo cloaks though, so they can jump out into cover somewhere early if your opponent has good anti-flyer firepower.

Outflank won't confer because it's not a dedicated transport.

**g0atsticks**

I actually use this tactic. i always leave the SS in until the end and drop them off on a point or for line breaker. If they are shot down, yeah it sucks, but its only 75 points.

you can drop them right out of the back while zooming, since they have move through cover they automatically pass dangerous test; cheesy??? oh yeah, but it works.
The weapons really just depend on where you drop them off at. Its all a guessing game as each game is different.

**NickTheButcher**

I recently tried this same tactic in a game and it worked out well. SR flew over an objective, they hopped out, took it and held it at the bottom of turn 5, game ended on 6. I would have won even without the objective at that point, but had it gone another turn, anything could have happened and it very well may have came down to that 1 objective.

The thing I didn't get to test was their loadout -- but this is kind of the point to the whole "last-minute-objective grab". We're talking about 5 scouts after all (without any camo cloaks), your opponent can get or deny that objective pretty easily if you give them more than 1 turn to do so -- and I don't think how you equip them will change that.

In my case, though, It was an objective with nothing on it. Had there been a unit on it, I would have hoped the CCW/BP would have caused enough wounds to win combat, which would probably not have worked out as well considering the WS 3. Shotty's may be better.

**UltraTacSgt**

I know 5 scouts aren't the toughest nut to crack from the Marine codex. But I figure that I'll do what I can to support the scouts by shooting up their target with other units or bringing up a unit to physically support them.
Worst case, I'll unleash the fury of a fully loaded Stormraven (Rapid Fired Hurricane Bolters, TL-AC, TL-MM, and Stormstrike Missile) before I drop them. That should put a dent in whatever they are going to assault.

**varl**

quick question on this tactic: are the scouts subject to the usual no-assault-after-disembarking restriction if they jump out of a zooming stormraven or does the SR's assault transport rule still apply?

**SlaveToDorkness**

The unit may not assault when it drops out of a zooming SR.

**varl**

good to know. do you happen to have a pg# reference for that?

**SlaveToDorkness**

BA codex, pg 38, last sentence.
GK codex, pg 37, last sentence.

**varl**

thank you. most interesting. I wonder if the new DftS book changes that rule for the vanilla SM stormraven. if not, it makes me think taking CCW/BP scouts is a bit less viable then shotguns since they aren't going to be able to assault a unit off a contested objective (not on the turn they land, at least).

**SlaveToDorkness**

The updated iPad SM codex that includes the SR has the same rules as the BA and GK. I would assume it's the same for DftS since that's how the SM book got updated.

**NickTheButcher**

varl wrote:
thank you. most interesting. I wonder if the new DftS book changes that rule for the vanilla SM stormraven. if not, it makes me think taking CCW/BP scouts is a bit less viable then shotguns since they aren't going to be able to assault a unit off a contested objective (not on the turn they land, at least).

DFTS states that the Stormraven has the "Skies of Fury" rule, which is identical to the BA "Skies of Blood", and both state "Models that disembark using the Skies of Fury/Blood special rule
cannot charge in the turn that they do so."

**Crimson**

juraigamer wrote:
For assault minded scouts, shotguns are key. The reason being is you are an average shot, but crap in melee due to WS 3.

Do you plan on shooting the scouts out with the special rule? If so you can always use normal CCW scouts since running might be in order, otherwise if you are getting out normally go shotguns all day.

Um.. why? You hit things on 4+ while shooting, and you hit almost all enemies on 4+ on melee. Strength is the same. With 12 inch l range you are not going to get many turn of shooting with those shotguns anyway. And if you are going to shoot with them and assault, the extra attack from the CCW equals the extra shot from the shotgun in one player turn. If they live to fight several turns it will surpass it. And if you're not going to assault, then you might as well get bolters, as they're just better than shotguns in every way besides not being assault weapons.

**Tagony**

So when can you drop your dudes out and have them assault? Do you have to have your SR hover to use the assault or can you move a little then drop and assault?

**SlaveToDorkness**

You'd have to Hover and then disembark. Moving up to 6" is allowed as usual.

**g0atsticks**

assulting with scouts? Nah sirs, just drop them off close as you can to objective. These guys will get wiped out by pretty much anything.

**Tagony**

If you hover then does your only hit a flyer on a six rule go away?

I ask because I was going to put an ironclad in the raven for CC punch.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Yes.

**Tagony**

So is there a good way to put a iron clad in a raven? Assaulting turn 4 seems like a waste.

**Nevelon**

If you are willing to risk hovering, you can do it on 3. Or take a locator beacon (on the table) and use the skies of fury/blood rule.

(turn before) Drop pod or turbo boosing scouts move to near where you want to assault.
Raven arrives from reserves and zoom up to/over your target
Jump out, using skies of fury. The beacon makes it so you don't scatter someplace irrelevant. You can't use a beacon on the raven because it wasn't on the table at the start of the turn.
Eat incoming fire on dread. Raven is still zooming, so reasonably safe
Assault. Turn 3 at the earliest.

If you are going to run a fully loaded storm raven you should be using something to help manipulate reserves. On any reasonable point scale it's going to be a huge chunk of your army loitering offsides. You need it to show up in a timely manner, or you are going to get tabled before it shows up. I like the idea of scouts. They are cheep, scoring units. They may be fragile, but that's not such a big deal when showing up late to the party. A mix of CCW and shotguns means you can assault if needed. Plus it gets those guys off the shelf. How are they ever going to get enough battlefield experience to become full marines is they never see combat? Snipers can't get all the love all the time...

Hovering on turn 3-4 might be safe. At my last team tournament I was heming and hawing about hovering my stormtalon, and my partner said "What are you worried about? We've already killed anything that could be a threat to it!" I had been so caught up in the theoretical risks of hovering, I had missed the practical fact that we had already systematically killed all the anti-tank units our opponents had. So I hovered, spun, and lit into some infantry.

**AlmightyWalrus**

If you're planning on jumping something out of the SR a Locator Beacon is a steal for 10 points. It makes last-turn objective drops much safer.