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Looking through the codex the librarian looks like a good HQ choice as you can customize him a lot with powers for most situations, but what powers do you take and at what mastery level? Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Warp rift and Sanctuary all seem decent and you know what to get but are they better than random rolls on the divination table?

I just can't turn down Prescience with all the Str 5 Bolter rounds and Psycannons that benefit.

Unless you want your GK Libby to use a specific power from the GK codex, the generic psychic powers in the BRB are better choices, specifically Prescience.

SJ

 Eldarain wrote:
I just can't turn down Prescience with all the Str 5 Bolter rounds and Psycannons that benefit.

Also with a Mastery Level 3 means you will probably 1 of misfortune, perfect timing, forewarning, and The full BS overwatch. SO you'll be just fine.

For me Presience isn't that important though as my main opponents are daemons and chaos space marines, but the other BRB powers are still good

What I do is I usually buy a couple codex powers for the Librarian, and before the game I decide if I want to swap for Divination.

Yes, you can do that as you swap codex powers for rulebook powers before the game begins, which is after list building.


I usually take Shrouding, Might of Titan, and Sanctuary.

How comes nobody uses the Summoning power ? I find there are so many situation where the Grey Knights lack some mobility that the Summoning seems a good alternative... but I hardly see anybody choosing this spell for some unknown reason.

Because if your Librarian could get to the enemy, so could the unit he is summoning. They also can only shoot when the get summoned, which might be ok, but again if you needed guys with your Librarian why didn't they just get there under their own power?

I find the teleport powers (Gate of Infinity as well) not so useful for going on the offensive, but for last-minute objective grabs. Some players simply won't realise why you've left that Librarian near that objective away from all the action until it's a bit too late.

That said, in the grand scheme of things, Divination is still a better bet than this particular ploy.

if you want divination, take a 25 pt inquisitor and pay 30 pts to give him divination

librarians are 150 pts for a lvl 2, coteaz is acheaper lvl 2,

I see it as a waste to pay 150 pts for 2 divination rolls, when i can get that with coteaz, and he has 3 wounds for perils, and some other nice rules.


librarian specific powers are pretty much the only reason I take libraians,

warp rift is god like against necron and orks and tau, decent against the rest save for eldar, DE

quicksilver, titan, sanctuary and the shrouding are also awesome, i run my lvl 2 libby with those and warp rift,

best part about it that way, is i have 2 powers to cast in the OPPOnents turn, and more for my turn,

librarian in the middle of a gk blob casting shrouding, giving a lot of my army a 4+ cover (when they are behind my front screening squad) is very effective.


but if you want precience the libby is the most expensive way to get it out of the gk codex,

200 pts for a lvl 3 psyker is a bit over priced IMO

But a librarian comes with TDA and a NFW, and can buy other NFWs. He also has a space marine statline and rules.

Inquisitors can be hidden behind there power or terminator armor friends.

For me it depends on who I play against. I prefer the codex powers since I play against a lot of high armor and ap 2 spam. Might of Titan and warp rift are a nightmare for enemy armor and shrouding has helped my marines turn the table more times then I can count.

I also like knowing what powers I have beforehand so I can plan better instead of getting something random. Not saying the BRB rules are bad, they all have benefits and setbacks.

sure libbys comes with TDA armour and a sword/storm bolter for 150 pts....

so what? my whole army already has st bolters and NFW... one more wont matter,


coteaz comes with art armour and a NFW daemon hammer, at lvl 2 for 50 pts less,
hes aregueably MORE durable due to having 3 wounds, and you can just hde him in a squad...

heck two crusaders at 15pts a pice can put two 3++ wounds between cotez and everything else, which is already better then the librarians 2 wounds at 5++

libby's are AWESOME units, but if you want divination powers they are not the most effective way to get them,

their codex powers are arguably better, depends on your army build,
and definetly more consistant, plus divination wont let me cast powers in my opponents turn, wasting 2 possible casts every time my opponent goes.


I can get 3 divination rolls, 3 2+ wounds 3 4+ wounds, artificer armour, 3 daemon hammer attacks, 4 normal attacks, and two characters, that confer stubborn, and have ld 10, for 155pts

or I can get 2 divination rolls, 2 2+/5++ wounds, a NF sword, and one character at ld that confers ATSKNF to an army that has that base covered, and him in a unit stops taht unit from sweping advances for 150 pts

or I can get some awesome GK codex only powers, i10, +2 str from HH and MOTT are self explanitory in their awesomeness, but sanctuary and shrouding often get overlooked, despite being very VERY good. your librarian in effect becomes lvl 4 since you can cast twice in your turn, and twice in your opponents turn. one good warp rift blast will change a game more often then you would think, and is a VERY hard coutner to one of the toughest armies out there (necrons) this all comes to about 175 pts, which is worth it IMO to have a i10 +2str unit with +1 cover that is basically un assaultable, and can wipe out every expensive models in one shot.

Cotaez's weaker stat line is mitigated somewhat by joining a squad of MEQ. Not only will he pick up their special rules, but he gains majority toughness 4.

Take the Librarian if you want Codex Powers, take Coteaz or an Inquisitor (this means coteaz most of the time) if you want BRB powers. Coteaz is just too much of a steal, prescience and +1 divination for 100 points is just too good, especially when you get better seizes, more reliable first turns, out of turn shooting, and scoring henchmen. If you just like the Terminator Armor, but want BRB, you'd still be better served by just taking an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with TDA, Psyker, and Psycannon -- Still much cheaper, you get prescience, and you get a psycannon in the bargain.

You are being very very inefficient if you're swapping out a Librarian's powers for BRB powers. If you take one, you need to make the Librarian work with his Codex powers, as then he offers something that Coteaz and the Inquisitors (Hey, that's a good name for a band) do not. The other problem with the Librarian is that most of the powers that he'll be using got nerfed a bit from last edition -- both the Shrouding and Sanctuary, while still good, are nowhere near as nasty as they were in 5th.

If you want a prescience bot, take Coteaz or a TDA Malleus Inquisitor. If you've got a plan that involves codex powers, then you should consider a librarian.

well, I outfit my Libby for tanking Challenges by giving him a Staff and sticking him with my spearhead unit. Paladin statline, 2+/2++ save, and the ability to take combat enhancing powers. What's not to love?

In addition, since he will be attached to Mordrak and will normally be arriving on turn 1 wherever it is I want him to arrive at, he'll be carrying a Teleport Beacon. Reinforcements arrive next to him on their own rather than via the decidedly poor The Summoning power is worth the points spend. As to powers, Sometimes I take Warp Rift and Sanctuary, other times Prescience and something random.

SJ

Keep in mind that when a Libby changes powers he still keeps hammer hand +whatever divination powers and force weapon.

Grey Knight Librarian with Precognition/Warding staff... Reroll those 2+/2++ with brain mines. Tank like a boss. I would almost always be rolling on divination depending on my enemy. Especially if there is a CC monster like Abaddon.

easysauce wrote:
if you want divination, take a 25 pt inquisitor and pay 30 pts to give him divination

librarians are 150 pts for a lvl 2, coteaz is acheaper lvl 2,

I see it as a waste to pay 150 pts for 2 divination rolls, when i can get that with coteaz, and he has 3 wounds for perils, and some other nice rules.

25pt inquisitors cant deepstrike with their buddies if needed. Libbys are expensive but an overall more flexible option. If your running Gunline GK then a cheap inquisitor is fine but never optimal.

 Messy0 wrote:

easysauce wrote:
if you want divination, take a 25 pt inquisitor and pay 30 pts to give him divination

librarians are 150 pts for a lvl 2, coteaz is acheaper lvl 2,

I see it as a waste to pay 150 pts for 2 divination rolls, when i can get that with coteaz, and he has 3 wounds for perils, and some other nice rules.

25pt inquisitors cant deepstrike with their buddies if needed. Libbys are expensive but an overall more flexible option. If your running Gunline GK then a cheap inquisitor is fine but never optimal.

you can put him in TDA and DS the inquisitor as well if thats core to your strategy most games, personally, with not being able to cast powers on the first turn or for some powers the turn he DS's is a deal breaker, plus the additional points

plus libby's in TDA prevent a whole squad from sweeping advancing, big deal if you want to wipe out squads.

OP was specifically wanting divination powers, and the most efficient way for that is coteaz + an inquisitor,

where you get 3 rolls for 155 vs 2 rolls for 150, and can prescience two units instead of one


tanking challenges, ect, are all roles the libby can do, and do VERY wel if you get lucky on the div chart.

but crossiings between too many roles is risky... especially when one of those roles relies 100% on rolling a random power with one of your two div rolls.

even assuming the 1/3 chance to get rerolls comes up every time, putting all your tarpit and buff abilities on the same, t 4 model, can end poorly, esp if what you need to tarpit isnt close to what you need to buff,

and you are only buffing half the squads with prescience as you would with two inquisitors.

I agree with easysause


Overall, if all you want are rolls on the divination table, then the Inquisitor are the way to go. They are cheap and very powerful.

Also I have found that often I would rather have 2 units with the prescience re-rolls than 1 unit that is buffed by multiple spells. It makes that one unit a big target, rather than spreading your power out over multiple units.



The GK librarian is best used if you have a plan for the GK specific powers, and in general I think that there is only 1 unit that makes really good use of them; Paladins.

Core Spells:
Paladins really want stealth so they are better protected against the S8 AP2 stuff that really hurts them.
Paladins also like Quicksilver so you can run swords for the better INV save and still hit first.

Other spells to consider:
Might of Titan is good, but far less so in 6th as S4 glances can kill most vehicles in combat.
Warp rift is the most powerful shooting power. Buffing powers are generally better as you get no Deny the Witch type effects, but it is a strong attack.
Sanctuary is great, especially as it is cast on the enemy turn. You basically get to cast 4 spells a turn this way.


A LV2 librarian with GK spells will cast 4 spells a game turn, where if he took divination he would probably only cast 2 a turn.


I would rather have a Terminator Inquisitor with a Psycannon and Divination than a Divination Librarian.
Basically you trade 1 divination power for a Relentless Psycannon and 40-50 more points for your list.

 svendrex wrote:


A LV2 librarian with GK spells will cast 4 spells a game turn, where if he took divination he would probably only cast 2 a turn.

.

Pretty sure this is false. All powers are 1 warp change unless otherwise noted. Lvl 2 libbies have 2 warp change to use per turn.

By 4 powers per turn, he means 2 powers per player turn, since 2 player turns equal 1 turn and a ML2 Libby can cast 2 powers in each assault phase equalling 4 powers in one turn.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
By 4 powers per turn, he means 2 powers per player turn, since 2 player turns equal 1 turn and a ML2 Libby can cast 2 powers in each assault phase equalling 4 powers in one turn.

SJ

The rule book actually says each player produces warp charges each turn. FAQ say that a turn = player turn, no game turn. So you get 2 warp charges on your turn and your opponenets turn. so a Gk libby can cast two power on each turn if he purchases the right powers. Technically 3 if he's ML3 and managed to hit all the right situations.