'Four trucks filled with bodies' after Reynosa Mexico firefight

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**Frazzled**

http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_68fe5340-8aaf-11e2-ae7d-001a4bcf6878.html

'Four trucks filled with bodies' after Reynosa firefight

Posted on March 11, 2013
by Ildefonso Ortiz
REYNOSA — Fear and panic filled the streets of Reynosa on Sunday night as rival gunmen battled during a three-hour firefight that saw automatic weapons and grenades used. Surprisingly, Mexican authorities were absent for most of the melee.

The opening clashes were reported just before 9 p.m. Sunday, when rival factions of the Gulf Cartel consummated what appeared to be a yet another rift within the criminal organization.

During the protracted gunbattle, dozens of gunmen were killed, but authorities Monday would only confirm the deaths of two bystanders and the injury of a third.

A Tamaulipas law enforcement official, who asked to not be named citing security reasons, confirmed that the death toll was about three dozen, however the exact figures were not known because cartel gunmen picked up their own people’s bodies during the struggle.

In a news release, the Tamaulipas Attorney General’s Office, known as the PGJE, confirmed that the two slain bystanders were a taxi driver and a teenager who was riding a vehicle with his father. The release confirms one person was injured and seven gunmen arrested, and it states that authorities seized 22 vehicles that were used in the melee, but it doesn’t mention any gunmen dying.

The Tamaulipas law enforcement agent called the new release issued by his superiors an insult to common sense.

“There were four trucks filled with bodies that (members of organized crime) picked up,” the official said. “That is not counting the (bodies) that were left behind.”

The news release doesn’t mention a bullet-riddled SUV that was left along Boulevard Hidalgo, one of the city’s main avenues, just south of Vista Hermosa Avenue near the local headquarters of Mexico’s Attorney General’s Office, known as the PGR. Inside the truck, four bloodied bodies could be seen from a distance hours after sundown Sunday. Just north of that location near the Fiesta Inn Hotel along Boulevard Hidalgo, another bullet-riddled vehicle could be seen with three bodies inside.

Most of the city’s main avenues had been blocked off with hijacked trailers or buses, and road spikes were littered in other areas to stop traffic.

MEDIA BLACKOUT

While online the shootout in Reynosa has become common knowledge, mainstream news media have remained mum about it, said Guadalupe Correa-Cabrera, chair of the Government Department at the University of Texas at Brownsville.

“This has me very worried because this blackout is coming from both sides,” Correa Cabrera said. “Not only are we seeing organized crime shushing the media but now we are seeing the government at all levels put a lid on the media where you now have virtually no mainstream coverage of a battle of this magnitude.”

TAKING CARE OF STRANGERS

In a city where the constant threat of extortion by criminal organizations has caused citizens to be wary of their own shadow, when the shots started flying Sunday night, the community came together in an effort to protect bystanders.

While social media users began pointing out the areas of potential danger, average citizens took matters into their own hands to warn the public. In a gated community along Boulevard Hidalgo, a man stood by the gate warning residents to stay inside because of the ongoing firefight.

In the Wal-Mart store just a few blocks away, also along Boulevard Hidalgo, store employees locked the doors and asked their customers to remain calm as gunmen chased each other up and down the road.

“Please don’t go out, young man,” an employee said in Spanish to one patron. “It’s really ugly out there and it’s been going for more than 30 minutes.”

In a shopping plaza called Soriana Periférico near the city’s Southwestern side, the customers were also asked to stay inside for more than three hours until the roads cleared.

“It was a very long night,” said a Reynosa teenager who refused to give his name. The teen had gone to the movies with his friends but was not able to leave. “I already called my mom so she won’t worry.

“What the hell is going on?” he exclaimed.

GRILLING

As gunmen battled it out in the streets Sunday night, Ramiro Hernandez was busy in his garage. The maquila supervisor didn’t have work the next morning, so he was firing up the grill to cook a few steaks.

“What can you do?” Hernandez said in Spanish. “I’m not going to go out there right now. (My family and I) are all here so I might as well just go on and enjoy my day off.”

--

Ildefonso Ortiz covers courts, law enforcement and general assignments for The Monitor. He can be reached at iortiz@themonitor.com, (956) 683-4437 or on Twitter, @ildefonsoortiz.

**Hordini**

Surprisingly, Mexican authorities were absent for most of the melee.

It's really not that surprising, is it?

**Frazzled**

Nope not at all.

**Grey Templar**

The surprising part is they were actually there for part of it.

**Relapse**

This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

**Dreadclaw69**

And yet we have porous borders

**KingCracker**

Man that is terrible. Im curious how bad its going to have to get before actions are FINALLY taken

**Relapse**

KingCracker wrote:
Man that is terrible. Im curious how bad its going to have to get before actions are FINALLY taken

One of my friends from there told me of an incident where an official in charge of combating the cartels had his house attacked in a 2 hour gun battle. The police didn't arrive until it had ended and the station was only a block away.

**Desubot**

KingCracker wrote:
Man that is terrible. Im curious how bad its going to have to get before actions are FINALLY taken

Probably when they legalize everything illegal they are trying to sell from there. Or we invade and remove the corrupt government down there, but nether is practical in this political world of ours.

**KalashnikovMarine**

It's a warzone down there folks, and on a lot of the border.

**DutchKillsRambo**

Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

**Relapse**

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

The drug profits from the users supply the incentive to kill. If there were no guns, they'd be killing each other and innocent bystanders with clubs, axes or machetes, which in fact, a lot do. All this so somebody can have their recreational drug use. Some people call joints "Dead Mexicans" because of all the carnage caused by the drug trade.

**dogma**

Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

If we're going to blame drug users then we should also blame those people who oppose the legalization of drugs, as they both contribute to the present US market.

**DutchKillsRambo**

Relapse wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

The drug profits from the users supply the incentive to kill. If there were no guns, they'd be killing each other and innocent bystanders with clubs, axes or machetes, which in fact, a lot do. All this so somebody can have their recreational drug use. Some people call joints "Dead Mexicans" because of all the carnage caused by the drug trade.

Thats possibly one of the dumber views of the War on Drugs I've ever read honestly. If it wasn't illegal then there wouldn't be the financial gains to warrant the violence. Are you honestly going to say that this "firefight" would have happened with "clubs, axes, and machetes"? Its the same thing as Prohibition of alcohol in the 20's and 30's.

So weed grown in my friends basement, mushrooms grown in my closet, MDMA synthed in Canada and LSD synthed in Colorado funds the Mexican cartels how? Oh right they don't. I like how you're so quick to condemn all drug users and then in the same breath brush off the illegal activities of some US arms dealers. Wasn't the right wing hero to the world Rush a huge drug user?

And I've never heard of the term "dead mexicans". Ever. And coming from someone that I remember using the phrase "doing weed" I'm gonna stick with my gut that you don't have a real working knowledge of drugs in general.

**Relapse**

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

The drug profits from the users supply the incentive to kill. If there were no guns, they'd be killing each other and innocent bystanders with clubs, axes or machetes, which in fact, a lot do. All this so somebody can have their recreational drug use. Some people call joints "Dead Mexicans" because of all the carnage caused by the drug trade.

Thats possibly one of the dumber views of the War on Drugs I've ever read honestly. If it wasn't illegal then there wouldn't be the financial gains to warrant the violence. Are you honestly going to say that this "firefight" would have happened with "clubs, axes, and machetes"? Its the same thing as Prohibition of alcohol in the 20's and 30's.

So weed grown in my friends basement, mushrooms grown in my closet, MDMA synthed in Canada and LSD synthed in Colorado funds the Mexican cartels how? Oh right they don't. I like how you're so quick to condemn all drug users and then in the same breath brush off the illegal activities of some US arms dealers. Wasn't the right wing hero to the world Rush a huge drug user?

And I've never heard of the term "dead mexicans". Ever. And coming from someone that I remember using the phrase "doing weed" I'm gonna stick with my gut that you don't have a real working knowledge of drugs in general.

You lose then, since I lived in a crack house for several months and have been around drugs quite a bit of my young life and have seen what they've done to friends and family, the terms I use are local.
When the profit motive is there from drug users in the amounts the cartels are raking in, you know the killings are going to happen large scale whether guns are present or not.
You're being deliberatly obtuse when you try to make it seem I'm saying growing pot in your back yard is funding the cartels. I know you're smarter than that.
I laugh whenever I hear someone talking about legalizing drugs to stop the killings because they don't give a gak that over 60,000 people have died in Mexico in the last few years so they can have a party every Saturday night. They'll keep using drugs if the killings go on or not.
My buds tell me if it was Gringos getting killed in those numbers, then maybe the people up here would care, but since it's brown people, the attitude is, feth those peons, I want my drugs.

**Monster Rain**

My reaction to this story:

I really can't wait for the second half of season 5 of breaking bad to start.

My reaction to this thread:

The admission of rampant drug abuse makes some posters' ridiculous positions much more understandable.

**Ouze**

My prediction: Jesse kills Walt and takes his place.

Also never heard the phrase "dead Mexicans" as slang for marijuana, or any other drug, or thing, other then an actual dead Mexican. As Seaward once said, "sounds apocryphal".

**DutchKillsRambo**

Relapse wrote:

You lose then, since I lived in a crack house for several months and have been around drugs quite a bit of my young life and have seen what they've done to friends and family, the terms I use are local.
When the profit motive is there from drug users in the amounts the cartels are raking in, you know the killings are going to happen large scale whether guns are present or not.
You're being deliberatly obtuse when you try to make it seem I'm saying growing pot in your back yard is funding the cartels. I know you're smarter than that.
I laugh whenever I hear someone talking about legalizing drugs to stop the killings because they don't give a gak that over 60,000 people have died in Mexico in the last few years so they can have a party every Saturday night. They'll keep using drugs if the killings go on or not.
My buds tell me if it was Gringos getting killed in those numbers, then maybe the people up here would care, but since it's brown people, the attitude is, feth those peons, I want my drugs.

And the fact you still lump all drug users together under one umbrella reinforces my view. A crack house is hardly indicative of the average US drug user, let alone the average marijuana user. I'm not being obtuse, you talked about "drug users", completely missing the fact that the average drug user in the US is not funding the cartels.

And yes, people wanting to blow coke on Saturday nights are implicitly supporting with the killings in Mexico. Just as when you buy cheap goods from China you're implicitly supporting the Chinese government condemning political prisoners to death and harvesting their organs. Please give me an organized viewpoint that legalization and regulation wouldn't decrease the killings. If the US govt was importing cocaine and distributing from organized centers would that not cut down on the violence? If we take the DEA stats as truth and the majority of the Mexican cartel's profit is from cannabis, then how would setting up a system to legally grow it here not severely lower their profits?

And you're buds are right. If you haven't noticed America seems to only care when white people die. How many inner city school shootings happened, and then when white children die we suddenly pass knee-jerk dumb gun legislation's? Thats old news by new surely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah nothing on google, urban dictionary, or streetgangslang is showing up anything for "dead mexicans" as anything other than, well, dead mexicans. I think by "local" you mean "a few people you talked to"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
My reaction to this story:

I really can't wait for the second half of season 5 of breaking bad to start.

My reaction to this thread:

The admission of rampant drug abuse makes some posters' ridiculous positions much more understandable.

As this is pointed at me I'm very interested that you instantly collate use with abuse. Very interesting. So anyone that drinks alcohol abuses it? Would love to hear you expand on this use = abuse idea.

**Ouze**

Dead Mexicans does sound like an awesome name for a band though, right?

**DutchKillsRambo**

Ouze wrote:
Dead Mexicans does sound like an awesome name for a band though, right?

That is agreed. If only there is a soulful gutiar ala Santana.

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Relapse wrote:
When the profit motive is there from drug users in the amounts the cartels are raking in, you know the killings are going to happen large scale whether guns are present or not.
You're being deliberatly obtuse when you try to make it seem I'm saying growing pot in your back yard is funding the cartels. I know you're smarter than that.

Mass bloodshed is not an indicator of a thriving market, but rather one under extreme stress. An increasingly large percent of pot is grown in the US or Canada, leaving the Central American cartels increasingly reliant on cocaine, which is no longer the license to print money it once was, having had its highest volume demographic (crack) shrink away and be replaced by meth addicts. You've also got the matter of increasing border security shrinking the supply, which forces the market to shrink, all of which contributes to a shrinking profit margin for the cartels.

The cartels aren't fighting over a cash-cow, they're fighting over scraps*. If Central-American-sourced-drug use stopped tomorrow, the ensuing carnage would make what we've seen from them to date look like a friendly game of airsoft; they're going to make their money somehow, they won't just up and shut down if you take away their current business.

*Exaggeration for effect: just a shrinking market with shrinking profit margins, not literally scraps.

The only real solution would be military eradication of their leaders and infrastructure, like the drone strikes that have so effectively dismantled insurgent leadership in Afghanistan. Or go all out and hit them with the full weight of the American military machine at once. They're more warlords than criminal syndicates at this point, so it would only be as disproportionate as any other conflict we've fought in the past twenty some years, without the pesky issue of having to rebuild the infrastructure and prop up a new government for a decade.

**Monster Rain**

You really think Jesse wants to take over Walt's business, Ouze? He had me pretty well convinced he wanted out.

I am more interested in the interplay that's bound to come between Walt and his brother-in-law.

**Ouze**

I think he'll eventually start to see himself as a "lesser evil".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Or go all out and hit them with the full weight of the American military machine at once. They're more warlords than criminal syndicates at this point, so it would only be as disproportionate as any other conflict we've fought in the past twenty some years, without the pesky issue of having to rebuild the infrastructure and prop up a new government for a decade.

I fear this is the eventual most likely outcome.

**Relapse**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Relapse wrote:
When the profit motive is there from drug users in the amounts the cartels are raking in, you know the killings are going to happen large scale whether guns are present or not.
You're being deliberatly obtuse when you try to make it seem I'm saying growing pot in your back yard is funding the cartels. I know you're smarter than that.

Mass bloodshed is not an indicator of a thriving market, but rather one under extreme stress. An increasingly large percent of pot is grown in the US or Canada, leaving the Central American cartels increasingly reliant on cocaine, which is no longer the license to print money it once was, having had its highest volume demographic (crack) shrink away and be replaced by meth addicts. You've also got the matter of increasing border security shrinking the supply, which forces the market to shrink, all of which contributes to a shrinking profit margin for the cartels.

The cartels aren't fighting over a cash-cow, they're fighting over scraps*. If Central-American-sourced-drug use stopped tomorrow, the ensuing carnage would make what we've seen from them to date look like a friendly game of airsoft; they're going to make their money somehow, they won't just up and shut down if you take away their current business.

*Exaggeration for effect: just a shrinking market with shrinking profit margins, not literally scraps.

The only real solution would be military eradication of their leaders and infrastructure, like the drone strikes that have so effectively dismantled insurgent leadership in Afghanistan. Or go all out and hit them with the full weight of the American military machine at once. They're more warlords than criminal syndicates at this point, so it would only be as disproportionate as any other conflict we've fought in the past twenty some years, without the pesky issue of having to rebuild the infrastructure and prop up a new government for a decade.

It's hardly scraps when the market is in the billions and growing:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nightline-investigation-finds-mexican-drug-cartels-expand-marijuana/t/story?id=13951860&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dcartel%2520profits%2520from%2520drugs%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26ved%3D0CDwQFjAC%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fabcnews.go.com%252FUS%252Fnightline-investigation-finds-mexican-drug-cartels-expand-marijuana%252Fstory%253Fid%253D13951860%26ei%3DcxZAUdGfMaemygGQy4B4%26usg%3DAFQjCNGkiM1D-clXqvGJPv3jcFszf_X4rA%26bvm%3Dbv.43287494%2Cd.aWc

52 tons of marijuana grabbed in two tunnels in November puts a lie to the shrinking market theory:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/14/drug-tunnels_n_1673317.html

The number of people killed so far in Mexico alone:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10681249

As a final point, the cartels are moving more and more of their operations into the United States, growing marijuana in this country.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:

You lose then, since I lived in a crack house for several months and have been around drugs quite a bit of my young life and have seen what they've done to friends and family, the terms I use are local.
When the profit motive is there from drug users in the amounts the cartels are raking in, you know the killings are going to happen large scale Hwhether guns are present or not.
You're being deliberatly obtuse when you try to make it seem I'm saying growing pot in your back yard is funding the cartels. I know you're smarter than that.
I laugh whenever I hear someone talking about legalizing drugs to stop the killings because they don't give a gak that over 60,000 people have died in Mexico in the last few years so they can have a party every Saturday night. They'll keep using drugs if the killings go on or not.
My buds tell me if it was Gringos getting killed in those numbers, then maybe the people up here would care, but since it's brown people, the attitude is, feth those peons, I want my drugs.

h
And the fact you still lump all drug users together under one umbrella reinforces my view. A crack house is hardly indicative of the average US drug user, let alone the average marijuana user. I'm not being obtuse, you talked about "drug users", completely missing the fact that the average drug user in the US is not funding the cartels.

And yes, people wanting to blow coke on Saturday nights are implicitly supporting with the killings in Mexico. Just as when you buy cheap goods from China you're implicitly supporting the Chinese government condemning political prisoners to death and harvesting their organs. Please give me an organized viewpoint that legalization and regulation wouldn't decrease the killings. If the US govt was importing cocaine and distributing from organized centers would that not cut down on the violence? If we take the DEA stats as truth and the majority of the Mexican cartel's profit is from cannabis, then how would setting up a system to legally grow it here not severely lower their profits?

And you're buds are right. If you haven't noticed America seems to only care when white people die. How many inner city school shootings happened, and then when white children die we suddenly pass knee-jerk dumb gun legislation's? Thats old news by new surely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah nothing on google, urban dictionary, or streetgangslang is showing up anything for "dead mexicans" as anything other than, well, dead mexicans. I think by "local" you mean "a few people you talked to"
h

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
My reaction to this story:

I really can't wait for the second half of season 5 of breaking bad to start.

My reaction to this thread:

The admission of rampant drug abuse makes some posters' ridiculous positions much more understandable.

As this is pointed at me I'm very interested that you instantly collate use with abuse. Very interesting. So anyone that drinks alcohol abuses it? Would love to hear you expand on this use = abuse idea.

I'm not saying all users are taking the stuff by the ton, but just showing that you're way off saying I've never been around drugs, so there's no need for you to get defensive. If you have your own self contained system where you know that all the drugs you use are grown by you and your friends, good for you, because you're one of the few not funding the cartels.

**KalashnikovMarine**

For the record, the cartels don't get the majority of their weapons from the United States. They have real money. They can get actual military grade hardware from further south, and it'd probably be easier to move, especially if the BATFE isn't helping them.

I'll also agree that the cartels are more like warlords then drug barons at this point, at the point where you control territory and openly fight and defeat your nation's military in the streets you've reached a new phase of operation.

Over all, end the War on Drugs, it's even worse then Prohibition because it's the root of the militarization of our police force. Those gakky RICO laws aren't very good either.

**Frazzled**

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

Gun shop owners don't have automatic weapons and grenades. That comes from Venezuela, Africa, and bought from the Mexican and US military. Sorry. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:
My reaction to this story:

I really can't wait for the second half of season 5 of breaking bad to start.

My reaction to this thread:

The admission of rampant drug abuse makes some posters' ridiculous positions much more understandable.

I am the raging coke head of coffee drinkers.

**DutchKillsRambo**

Frazzled wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

Gun shop owners don't have automatic weapons and grenades. That comes from Venezuela, Africa, and bought from the Mexican and US military. Sorry. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, in the past five years 94,000 weapons have been recovered from Mexican drug cartels, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent -- come from the United States."

Want to try again Frazz?

**Frazzled**

DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

Gun shop owners don't have automatic weapons and grenades. That comes from Venezuela, Africa, and bought from the Mexican and US military. Sorry. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, in the past five years 94,000 weapons have been recovered from Mexican drug cartels, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent -- come from the United States."

Want to try again Frazz?

1. This is the same Justice Department which was selling guns to the Cartels at the same time. They should know.
2. This is from a specialized sample provided by the Mexican government. What it really should be is "70% of this special small non military sample carefully selected with US serial numbers" came from the US.
3. The post I replied to said "Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?" yet the article said machine guns and grenades. Gunshop owners do not have access to grenades, and very few have a license to have or sell automatic weapons. So either you ignored that in your great leap, or are willfully ignorant of the laws that stand now.

Which is it?

**DutchKillsRambo**

Frazzled wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Relapse wrote:
This is why my Mexican buds can't stand drug users. They supply the cartels with money to allow this kind of thing to happen.

Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?

Gun shop owners don't have automatic weapons and grenades. That comes from Venezuela, Africa, and bought from the Mexican and US military. Sorry. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, in the past five years 94,000 weapons have been recovered from Mexican drug cartels, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent -- come from the United States."

Want to try again Frazz?

1. This is the same Justice Department which was selling guns to the Cartels at the same time. They should know.
2. This is from a specialized sample provided by the Mexican government. What it really should be is "70% of this special small non military sample carefully selected with US serial numbers" came from the US.
3. The post I replied to said "Are they also mad at the government and gun shop owners for supplying them with weapons too?" yet the article said machine guns and grenades. Gunshop owners do not have access to grenades, and very few have a license to have or sell automatic weapons. So either you ignored that in your great leap, or are willfully ignorant of the laws that stand now.

Which is it?

Or maybe they get guns from more than one way? Sure gunshops in America can't sell grenades, but they can sell pistols and rifles. You think ONLY automatic weapons have been used in Mexico? If 64,000 weapons in the hands of cartel members are from the US, don't we share some of the blame of selling them along with the blaming of buying the drugs?

**Frazzled**

So in other words, you didn't read the actual article.