The New Pope Thread

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**KalashnikovMarine**

LordofHats wrote:
He's already been updated on Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

Jeez he hasn't even stepped on the balcony! I was thinking it would be Latin America though, they're the modern power bloc for Catholicism.

**Kovnik Obama**

Well, I'm happy it's not Ouellet, but this dude doesn't sound much better.

**KalashnikovMarine**

He's a Jesuit, so that's a good sign.

**CuddlySquig**

Darn. Not one of the three I was rooting for.

**Frazzled**

Hyenajoe wrote:
The new Pope is from Argentina and he takes the name of Francis

Pope Franky? He needs to have "luck be a lady tonight" played every time he enters a room.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
Well, I'm happy it's not Ouellet, but this dude doesn't sound much better.

Jesuits are a fairly liberal and current faction of the Catholic church.

I also approve of how he's presenting himself for this first time to the masses, simple white cassock, no ornate robes, no bling, very humble.

**gorgon**

The book on him seems to be that he's fairly conservative, but that he's a very humble person. He might even cook his own meals. I like that part a lot.

**Manchu**

Ostentation is not a bad sign for popes. True humility needn't appear pious.

**KalashnikovMarine**

gorgon wrote:
The book on him seems to be that he's fairly conservative, but that he's a very humble person. He might even cook his own meals. I like that part a lot.

The key factor here is liberal for the Catholic church.

**Manchu**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The key factor here is liberal for the Catholic church.

Based on being a Jesuit? Sorry, not all Jesuits are liberals. Francis does not appear to be a liberal even by the standards of the cardinals.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

He considers social outreach, rather than doctrinal battles, to be the essential business of the church.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/03/13/36341/no-pope-yet-black-smoke-rises-after-morning-votes/

How I pray this is true.

"In our ecclesiastical region there are priests who don't baptize the children of single mothers because they weren't conceived in the sanctity of marriage," Bergoglio told his priests. "These are today's hypocrites. Those who clericalize the Church. Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it's baptized!"

Let these be more than words!

**Spyral**

Manchu wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The key factor here is liberal for the Catholic church.
Based on being a Jesuit? Sorry, not all Jesuits are liberals. Francis does not appear to be a liberal even by the standards of the cardinals.

Amen. The whole 'jesuits are liberal and disfavoured' mantra is rubbish. Some of the best speakers and theologians have been Jesuits.

Also Latin America makes sense although I was hoping for Africa to shake things up a bit. Still the Americas is good. :-)

**Manchu**

The more I read about him, the more optimistic I feel.

**whembly**

Manchu wrote:
The more I read about him, the more optimistic I feel.

When you're done reading about him... can ya give us the cliffnotes version?

**Manchu**

Well, let's just start with this, from his speech:

And now I would like to give the blessing, but first I want to ask you a favor. Before the bishop blesses the people, I ask that you would pray to the Lord to bless me — the prayer of the people for their Bishop.

This is quite significant, that the people would bless him before he blesses them. This shows something about his vision of leadership, which is to say that blessing flows from God's people as they are before it comes back to them from the church.

**Kilkrazy**

Just at a quick squizz at the BBC summary, he seems like a pretty good selection.

He is pastoral not Vatican, non-European but more liberal than the Africans, socially progressive but not so sexually progressive as to frighten the conservatives.

If compromise is a good thing then he has it.

I say good luck to Francis I.

**Manchu**

Kilkrazy wrote:
He is pastoral not Vatican

He's actually been serving in the curia for a long time now (although not so long as poor Ratzinger).

**Breotan**

Connection to Prophecy

According to the Prophecy of the Popes (supposedly authored by Saint Malachy in the 12th Century, although some contend a more recent date of authorship) [36] the 266th pope to be elected (and the 112th pope on the list this text gives) will be the final pope, and will oversee the church as the "City of Seven Hills" is destroyed."[37][38]

This prophecy would be touched upon with more detail in Thomas Horn's "Petrus Romanus: The Final Pope is Here." In which the author contends the end of the Catholic Church is at hand (although Bergoglio did not appear on the list of ten likely candidates for being the literal "Peter from Rome.") The book correctly predicted that the previous pope, Benedict, would step down.

Let the conspiracy theories begin.

Multiple news and online sources were quick, in the hours after Francis' election, to seize upon the story (from both skeptical and open viewpoints) pointing to the proliferation of apocalyptic predictions in the wake of the conclave.

Whoops... too late.

**d-usa**

I guess there are hopeful thoughts that he picked his name as a rebuilder of the church, potentially signaling dealing with the scandals and rebuilding the reputation.

**Manchu**

I think we ought to keep in mind that the sexual abuse exists for one reason and the perpetuation and cover up of the abuse exists for another reason. The second is what we're concerned about in this conversation -- and I think the reason for it is clericalism, the notion that the institutional church should enjoy certain privileges vis-a-vis the civil jurisdiction and lay people. That attitude is very much present at all levels, certainly in the curia, certainly among the bishops, but also among lay people and even civil officials. So let's remember that any pope can only do so much in this regard. I don't want to apologize for a failure that has yet to occur. I just want to shape expectations according to reality.

**whembly**

Manchu wrote:
I think we ought to keep in mind that the sexual abuse exists for one reason and the perpetuation and cover up of the abuse exists for another reason. The second is what we're concerned about in this conversation -- and I think the reason for it is clericalism, the notion that the institutional church should enjoy certain privileges vis-a-vis the civil jurisdiction and lay people. That attitude is very much present at all levels, certainly in the curia, certainly among the bishops, but also among lay people and even civil officials. So let's remember that any pope can only do so much in this regard. I don't want to apologize for a failure that has yet to occur. I just want to shape expectations according to reality.

Agreed... and I'm not Catholic... is that weird?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Well, let's just start with this, from his speech:
And now I would like to give the blessing, but first I want to ask you a favor. Before the bishop blesses the people, I ask that you would pray to the Lord to bless me — the prayer of the people for their Bishop.
This is quite significant, that the people would bless him before he blesses them. This shows something about his vision of leadership, which is to say that blessing flows from God's people as they are before it comes back to them from the church.

You know what... that is all kinds of awesome. Very impressed...

**Breotan**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I say good luck to Francis I.

Why are people using a suffix with his name? I thought you couldn't use "the first" until there was someone else with the same name as "the second", sort of like how Jr./Sr. work.

**whembly**

Has anyone seen confirmation that the new Pope is linked with the Comunione e Liberazione?

**Frazzled**

I would have preferred someone who's not already nearly dead though. Seriously, can't you guys at least pick someone in their 60s or something?

**sebster**

Ouze wrote:
sebster wrote:
What do we call the Pope candidates? Popetentials?

"Papabiles"; but I think Popetentials is way catchier.

Hey, I learned a new word and it's an awesome word. Thanks.

And then on the link I see that Vaticanologist is also a word, and also as awesome as Papabile.

**azazel the cat**

Breotan wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
I say good luck to Francis I.
Why are people using a suffix with his name? I thought you couldn't use "the first" until there was someone else with the same name as "the second", sort of like how Jr./Sr. work.

Because on its own "Francis" is what you name a child when you know they're gonna grow up to be a wiener kid.

So instead, we all say Francis I (pronounced: "Francis One") because that is much cooler. Like the guy from Powerman 5000.

**sebster**

Manchu wrote:
Well, let's just start with this, from his speech:
And now I would like to give the blessing, but first I want to ask you a favor. Before the bishop blesses the people, I ask that you would pray to the Lord to bless me — the prayer of the people for their Bishop.
This is quite significant, that the people would bless him before he blesses them. This shows something about his vision of leadership, which is to say that blessing flows from God's people as they are before it comes back to them from the church.

That's really cool.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
I would have preferred someone who's not already nearly dead though. Seriously, can't you guys at least pick someone in their 60s or something?

I wonder if cardinals aren't that keen on voting in younger candidates because that means they'll stay in the office a long time, and cost themselves the chance at the Papacy. Pope John Paul II did exactly what the actuarial tables said would happen and lived for a long time, and lots of Papabiles missed out on their chance.

And when this guy is the 266th Pope, you figure that the average time in office per Pope comes out at about 7 or 8 years. So this guy seems about the norm for expected time in office.

**Spyral**

Frazzled wrote:
I would have preferred someone who's not already nearly dead though. Seriously, can't you guys at least pick someone in their 60s or something?

But then we could be stuck with him or aaaages.

**redbristles**

I'm just annoyed that the BBC decided on my behalf that it was more important than me watching The Great British Menu. He's just a man.

**Captain Avatar**

My spouse and I danced the happy dance when the announcement came.

Everything that we've heard or read about him has impressed us.

**reds8n**

Breotan wrote:
Connection to Prophecy

According to the Prophecy of the Popes (supposedly authored by Saint Malachy in the 12th Century, although some contend a more recent date of authorship) [36] the 266th pope to be elected (and the 112th pope on the list this text gives) will be the final pope, and will oversee the church as the "City of Seven Hills" is destroyed."[37][38]

This prophecy would be touched upon with more detail in Thomas Horn's "Petrus Romanus: The Final Pope is Here." In which the author contends the end of the Catholic Church is at hand (although Bergoglio did not appear on the list of ten likely candidates for being the literal "Peter from Rome.") The book correctly predicted that the previous pope, Benedict, would step down.
Let the conspiracy theories begin.
Multiple news and online sources were quick, in the hours after Francis' election, to seize upon the story (from both skeptical and open viewpoints) pointing to the proliferation of apocalyptic predictions in the wake of the conclave.
Whoops... too late.

http://barthsnotes.com/2013/03/13/wnd-still-pushing-final-pope-pseudo-prophecy/

One in a series of pieces from WND:
An author who predicted Pope Benedict XVI would be the first pontiff in nearly 600 years to resign is keeping close watch on the conclave of cardinals through the lens of a medieval prophecy that indicates the man they select will be history’s “final pope.”
Tom Horn, co-author of the book “Petrus Romanus: The Final Pope is Here,” told WND he has a list of 10 men among the 115 sequestered in the Sistine Chapel who best fit St. Malachy’s “Prophecy of the Popes,” said to be based on a prophetic vision of the 112 popes following Pope Celestine II, who died in 1144.
As WND reported, Horn and his co-author, Cris Putnam, predicted in their book Benedict would step down last April, and it turns out that April apparently was when Benedict made the historic decision he announced to the world last month.
The article, of course, deliberately obscures the detail that Horn’s “prediction” was not based on scrutinising some ancient manuscript; rather, he took to the internet, where he would have found reports such as this one, from September 2011:
…There is one front page news story that will certainly not go unnoticed: that is, that the Pope is thinking about resigning during the Spring of 2012. Journalist Antonio Socci has confirmed the same in the Italian daily, Libero.
For some reason, WND also fails to mention another book by Horn, which it was promoting back in 2008 and after; this was Nephilim Stargates: The Year 2012 and the Return of the Watchers, in which he explained the “timing of Enoch’s 70 generations and a catastrophic soon return of the Watcher’s offspring”. In 2012 itself, WND recalled – in a piece entitled 2012 Doomsday: It’s Not ust Mayan Claim – that:
Last year [i.e. 2011], WND reported on Tom Horn’s efforts to let everyone to know calendars besides the ancient Mayan one predict the demise of human civilization in 2012, and he claims a demonic plot bringing about the end date could be hiding in plain sight inside the U.S. Capitol.
The “Prophecy of the Popes” first appeared in 1590, although it claims to record a vision received by St Malachy in 1139. According to the story, Malachy was given details about all the future popes, and and the list of 112 popes is now about to reach its end. However, the document consists of obscure mystical titles; there are no actual names or dates, and many commentators note that the “prophecies” referring to the period between 1139 and 1590 are rather more impressive than those given for Popes after the document’s publication.
Hal Lindsey is also an enthusiast, although “Glenn Beck’s End Times Prophet” Joel Richardson, who also writes for WND, dismisses the document as a “proven fraud”. Richardson, of course, would rather we focus on the prospect of an Islamic Anti-Christ.
Meanwhile, Thomas Horn’s “Defender” publisher has a website here; another book by Horn for sale there is Exo-Vaticana: Petrus Romanus, Project L.U.C.I.F.E.R. and the Vatican’s Astonishing Plan for the Arrival of an Alien Savior.