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 Formosa wrote:
The eldar codex would of course say that, the guard, space marine codex's dont really go into it.

What we're doing is a leap of logic, we look at the fluff (such as it is) from dat, look at the reunification of humanity and can Sammies that for humanity to have expanded to such an extent without the eldar stopping them, they must have been comparable, otherwise humanity would not have existed, the eldar would have swatted them like a fly.

You would never willingly allow an enemy to surround you on all fronts unless there was a threat of mutual annihilation, eldar controlled the stars, da humans could make them super nova.. Swings and roundabouts

Actually you are making a leap of logic. You are assuming the edar think like a human; that being surrounded by an enemy is a bad thing. For the eldar pre-fall being surrounded might actually have been of benefit as they were much more powerful psykers. If you always knew when and where an enemy would attack and could attack that position instantly with your entire force who could blow them away with little to no trouble would you fear being attack? No.

They saw humans as worms. Those worms were incredibly useful for holding back the flies that are the orks, etc. which annoy them. So being "surrounded" by relatively peaceful humans that can do all your border defense for you is actually a pretty good deal. Like how land is left open between N and S Korea as a buffer zone. Keep in mind as well "surrounded" is meaningless for the eldar as they can just go into the webway to escape and the humans can never cut off supply lines because those are again through the webway.

So my position is that the eldar actually had a logical and beneficial reason to allow the humans to colonize around them so as they never had to fight the petty squabbles with orks, small empires, etc. that they otherwise would have had to be involved in. This is based on the assumption that the eldar even paid attention to anything not eldar in the first place. They went incredibly eldar centric (far more than now) for a long time before the fall so they may never have even looked up from their games. Even if the individual human weapons were comparable the advantage of webway travel versus FLT would have meant instant surprise attack of 100 to 1 ratios at any fight the eldar deigned to be involved in. You could not have even mustered your fleet to fight the eldar pre-fall. Thank Slaanesh the humans have their "empire"; the poor foolish Mon'Keigh and their delusions of grandeur...

The Eldar most definitely look down on humans, this is not in question. But the Eldar have a history of working with other races peacefully. Humanity, while inferior, would still be something that the Eldar could hypothetically get along with.
Before the Newcron codex put a bunch of GW sanctioned white-out all over the Eldar Codex, the story was quite a bit different. The Eldar lived basically as a member of the Old Ones (which was a collective of races, not a single species). The Eldar really didn't have a beef with humanity until after the fall. Hell up until then they seemed pretty neutral, if not friendly (Eldrad tried to warn the Imperium of the Heresy before... didn't help at all, but he tried).

Also, the Golden throne is a life-support system for the Emperor, but it serves more than one function. If memory serves, it's also a human-accessible entrance to the Webway, which the Emperor was mapping out. Nothing says that the Eldar just let humanity walk around the webay, but at that point nothing said otherwise either. It's very possible that the Emperor, and likely humanity at large, had some sort of agreement or alliance with the Eldar.

Imma go scour through some books and see if there are any documented instances of humanity fighting the Eldar prior to the Heresy... I can't think of any off-hand.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Hmm, don't have time to post a lot about this but I totally disagree with anyone saying that DAOT humans were anywhere on par with the tech level of the Eldar before the fall.

The current Eldar codex disagrees with anyone who says otherwise.

Page 4 of the Eldar codex says:

"The Eldar held dominion over a large portion of the galaxy"

it also says:

"Their technological and cultural achievements excelled those of all other races"

and goes on to say:

"No other race had posed a serious threat to their wealth and stability for countless millenia"

those few lines totally contradict anyone saying humans had equal or better technology as the Eldar excelled those of ALL other races. It's in the current and most recent codex, its canon as far as can be canon with GW and it has not been ret conned or changed. Eldar win that debate.

Codexes focusing on a race say a lot of gak. Doesn't mean they are the full truth. Please focus on evidence instead of the mentality that cause the holy codex says something they it must be the full truth.

I put forward the supposition that the Eldar ignored the humans because they were busy being hedonistic and decadent plus their arrogance and let their robots do the fighting for them. I put Eldar tech ahead of DAoT humanity cause of the Webway, psionics and Eldar gods. DAoT humanity however are also powerful, you have to accept this.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Hmm, don't have time to post a lot about this but I totally disagree with anyone saying that DAOT humans were anywhere on par with the tech level of the Eldar before the fall.

The current Eldar codex disagrees with anyone who says otherwise.

Page 4 of the Eldar codex says:

"The Eldar held dominion over a large portion of the galaxy"

it also says:

"Their technological and cultural achievements excelled those of all other races"

and goes on to say:

"No other race had posed a serious threat to their wealth and stability for countless millenia"

those few lines totally contradict anyone saying humans had equal or better technology as the Eldar excelled those of ALL other races. It's in the current and most recent codex, its canon as far as can be canon with GW and it has not been ret conned or changed. Eldar win that debate.

Codexes focusing on a race say a lot of gak. Doesn't mean they are the full truth. Please focus on evidence instead of the mentality that cause the holy codex says something they it must be the full truth.

I put forward the supposition that the Eldar ignored the humans because they were busy being hedonistic and decadent plus their arrogance and let their robots do the fighting for them. I put Eldar tech ahead of DAoT humanity cause of the Webway, psionics and Eldar gods. DAoT humanity however are also powerful, you have to accept this.

usually the Gak starts after the opening pages of the codex. The bits I quoted are not from the view of anyone. Not like a lot of the imperial dogma that is written from the point of view of the Imperium with half truths. The beginning of the Eldar codex is written by a neutral narrator, not by some priest of the Imperium or even the Eldar. It is the overview of the reality of what the Eldar were, not some overdramatized story of them. This is backed up by the Dark Eldar codex and the Necron codex too.

What I quoted about the Eldar is true for the fictional universe of 40k. They were all powerful before the fall. No one threatened their existence. It took the birth of a Chaos God to destroy their empire, no one else was powerful enough. That is fact.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Hmm, don't have time to post a lot about this but I totally disagree with anyone saying that DAOT humans were anywhere on par with the tech level of the Eldar before the fall.

The current Eldar codex disagrees with anyone who says otherwise.

Page 4 of the Eldar codex says:

"The Eldar held dominion over a large portion of the galaxy"

it also says:

"Their technological and cultural achievements excelled those of all other races"

and goes on to say:

"No other race had posed a serious threat to their wealth and stability for countless millenia"

those few lines totally contradict anyone saying humans had equal or better technology as the Eldar excelled those of ALL other races. It's in the current and most recent codex, its canon as far as can be canon with GW and it has not been ret conned or changed. Eldar win that debate.

Codexes focusing on a race say a lot of gak. Doesn't mean they are the full truth. Please focus on evidence instead of the mentality that cause the holy codex says something they it must be the full truth.

I put forward the supposition that the Eldar ignored the humans because they were busy being hedonistic and decadent plus their arrogance and let their robots do the fighting for them. I put Eldar tech ahead of DAoT humanity cause of the Webway, psionics and Eldar gods. DAoT humanity however are also powerful, you have to accept this.

usually the Gak starts after the opening pages of the codex. The bits I quoted are not from the view of anyone. Not like a lot of the imperial dogma that is written from the point of view of the Imperium with half truths. The beginning of the Eldar codex is written by a neutral narrator, not by some priest of the Imperium or even the Eldar. It is the overview of the reality of what the Eldar were, not some overdramatized story of them. This is backed up by the Dark Eldar codex and the Necron codex too.

What I quoted about the Eldar is true for the fictional universe of 40k. They were all powerful before the fall. No one threatened their existence. It took the birth of a Chaos God to destroy their empire, no one else was powerful enough. That is fact.

I never stated that the Eldar were not powerful nor the mightiest empire around. I stated that DAoT humanity was also powerful and was expanding across the galaxy and not stopped cause Eldar were too busy fapping. Check out my DAoT humanity tech source thread to see what DAoT humanity was capable of.

Also, codexes written for the various races can be said to be propaganda also seeing as the codexes always highlight their awesomness and good points and just brushes over the bad points.

En Excelsis wrote:

Also, the Golden throne is a life-support system for the Emperor, but it serves more than one function. If memory serves, it's also a human-accessible entrance to the Webway, which the Emperor was mapping out. Nothing says that the Eldar just let humanity walk around the webay, but at that point nothing said otherwise either. It's very possible that the Emperor, and likely humanity at large, had some sort of agreement or alliance with the Eldar.

It was never completed though, and I've read somewhere that in addition to rendering Warp travel and astro-telepathy obsolete, another goal of the Imperial Webway Project was to bring battle directly to the Eldar. I mean, just look at the name of the project: IMPERIAL WEBWAY. It's clear he wanted to bring the Webway under Imperial and therefore Human control, and the only way to do so would have been to burn Commoragh to the ground and subjugating/destroying the Craftworlds. As for not being able to find them...consider this: the Emperor and Magnus - both of whom were the only ones actually intended to sit on the Golden Throne - are psykers far beyond any of the Eldar. I do not doubt that while sitting on the Golden Throne, they could actually sense the exact location of the Eldar and anyone else in the Webway.

The Emperor may have had had an arrangement with the Craftworld Eldar...but it was probably based on mutual suspicion, not trust.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

En Excelsis wrote:

Also, the Golden throne is a life-support system for the Emperor, but it serves more than one function. If memory serves, it's also a human-accessible entrance to the Webway, which the Emperor was mapping out. Nothing says that the Eldar just let humanity walk around the webay, but at that point nothing said otherwise either. It's very possible that the Emperor, and likely humanity at large, had some sort of agreement or alliance with the Eldar.

It was never completed though, and I've read somewhere that in addition to rendering Warp travel and astro-telepathy obsolete, another goal of the Imperial Webway Project was to bring battle directly to the Eldar. I mean, just look at the name of the project: IMPERIAL WEBWAY. It's clear he wanted to bring the Webway under Imperial and therefore Human control, and the only way to do so would have been to burn Commoragh to the ground and subjugating/destroying the Craftworlds. As for not being able to find them...consider this: the Emperor and Magnus - both of whom were the only ones actually intended to sit on the Golden Throne - are psykers far beyond any of the Eldar. I do not doubt that while sitting on the Golden Throne, they could actually sense the exact location of the Eldar and anyone else in the Webway.

The Emperor may have had had an arrangement with the Craftworld Eldar...but it was probably based on mutual suspicion, not trust.

Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

Roadkill Zombie wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

En Excelsis wrote:

Also, the Golden throne is a life-support system for the Emperor, but it serves more than one function. If memory serves, it's also a human-accessible entrance to the Webway, which the Emperor was mapping out. Nothing says that the Eldar just let humanity walk around the webay, but at that point nothing said otherwise either. It's very possible that the Emperor, and likely humanity at large, had some sort of agreement or alliance with the Eldar.

It was never completed though, and I've read somewhere that in addition to rendering Warp travel and astro-telepathy obsolete, another goal of the Imperial Webway Project was to bring battle directly to the Eldar. I mean, just look at the name of the project: IMPERIAL WEBWAY. It's clear he wanted to bring the Webway under Imperial and therefore Human control, and the only way to do so would have been to burn Commoragh to the ground and subjugating/destroying the Craftworlds. As for not being able to find them...consider this: the Emperor and Magnus - both of whom were the only ones actually intended to sit on the Golden Throne - are psykers far beyond any of the Eldar. I do not doubt that while sitting on the Golden Throne, they could actually sense the exact location of the Eldar and anyone else in the Webway.

The Emperor may have had had an arrangement with the Craftworld Eldar...but it was probably based on mutual suspicion, not trust.

Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

But the Emperor is also said to be a powerful psyker. I forgot the statement but it said the most powerful psyker in the galaxy or most powerful human psyker *shrug*. At any rate, his power was such that the Chaos gods needed to get involved in order to beat his ass into the ground.

Yeah, it says "most powerful human psyker" about the Emperor. Human being the key word there.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Yeah, it says "most powerful human psyker" about the Emperor. Human being the key word there.

can you post a quote?

On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

Have you checked out my DAoT humanity tech source thread, Admiral Valerian? What do you think?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

Have you checked out my DAoT humanity tech source thread, Admiral Valerian? What do you think?

It fits. In any case, the comparison between the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans is similar to the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo: the former had superior FTL and AI technology, but were equaled in everything else, and the latter actually had the potential to surpass the former and rival the Precursors. Same for 40k: the Eldar had superior FTL and psionics, but had the Golden Age not ended (also partly the fault of the Eldar), the Golden Age Humans would have surpassed the ancient Eldar thanks to Man's own psionic evolution (and the Emperor's influence from the shadows).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

Have you checked out my DAoT humanity tech source thread, Admiral Valerian? What do you think?

It fits. In any case, the comparison between the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans is similar to the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo: the former had superior FTL and AI technology, but were equaled in everything else, and the latter actually had the potential to surpass the former and rival the Precursors. Same for 40k: the Eldar had superior FTL and psionics, but had the Golden Age not ended (also partly the fault of the Eldar), the Golden Age Humans would have surpassed the ancient Eldar thanks to Man's own psionic evolution (and the Emperor's influence from the shadows).

uh....Eldar having superior A.I tech? Human A.I is said to have actually become sentient and this sentience is what brought about the Iron Men rebellion. Although some Chaos guys say that it was the daemons that did it all; observe this quote from the Black Crusade core rulebook pg 24

The Dark Age of Technology exists only in myth in modern
times, and the causes of its ending are poorly understood. Many
cultures share similar stories of a breakdown of the golden age,
of entire regions becoming isolated by raging warp storms and
turning against themselves in crippling wars. Others tell of a
time of apotheosis for mankind, when mutations and psychic
powers became increasingly prevalent, and predatory beings
from warp space used such open conduits to feast on the living.
Worshippers of the Ruinous Powers maintain that these times
were the triumph of Chaos, when mankind’s fi rst fumbling
attempts to rule over the mortal realm were cast down into
anarchy by cackling daemons from the warp.

En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar most definitely look down on humans, this is not in question. But the Eldar have a history of working with other races peacefully. Humanity, while inferior, would still be something that the Eldar could hypothetically get along with.

Wrong. Before the newcron codex and the earlier retcon to the Fall occurring in M30, the eldar, despite their current fallen state were, and still are a bunch of arrogant, speciecist pricks, who use other races for their own benefit (kill a complete human planet to save one eldar? No problem), will-they or nill-they, who can still seriously contest the Imperium's supremacy should they wish to (they don't) - and that's *after* the Fall.
Before the Fall, when they didn't need the other races to survive, they would have had absolutely no reason whatsoever to even talk to humans, let alone ally themselves with them. The post-fall eldar term for the other races, mon-keigh, translates to "pond scum", FFS. As in, the eldar consider themselves as far above humans as humans consider themselves above pond scum.

I mean, the whole *point* of the Eldar race is that they were once far, far more than humanity could ever hope to be, both technologically and psychically, and even they could not stand against the hostile forces the universe arrayed against them. Even in their current fallen state they are a serious power in the galaxy. How, then, can humanity ever hope to survive, let alone return to greatness?

Take that away by randomly making GA humans the equal of pre-fall eldar (they were certainly more than a match for post-fall eldar), and why even bother to have the eldar in the setting at all?

The logical, and until the slowed retcon, official explanation for humanity's peerlessness during its golden age is that the Eldar empire and humanity at its height never co-existed, because the Fall took place long before humans ever reached the stars. Indeed, some old background material puts the fall before humanity even existed.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

Have you checked out my DAoT humanity tech source thread, Admiral Valerian? What do you think?

It fits. In any case, the comparison between the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans is similar to the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo: the former had superior FTL and AI technology, but were equaled in everything else, and the latter actually had the potential to surpass the former and rival the Precursors. Same for 40k: the Eldar had superior FTL and psionics, but had the Golden Age not ended (also partly the fault of the Eldar), the Golden Age Humans would have surpassed the ancient Eldar thanks to Man's own psionic evolution (and the Emperor's influence from the shadows).

uh....Eldar having superior A.I tech?

You misunderstood my post. I was merely pointing out the parallels between the relationship of the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans and the relationship between the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo.

Bran Dawri wrote:

En Excelsis wrote:
The Eldar most definitely look down on humans, this is not in question. But the Eldar have a history of working with other races peacefully. Humanity, while inferior, would still be something that the Eldar could hypothetically get along with.

Wrong. Before the newcron codex and the earlier retcon to the Fall occurring in M30, the eldar, despite their current fallen state were, and still are a bunch of arrogant, speciecist pricks, who use other races for their own benefit (kill a complete human planet to save one eldar? No problem), will-they or nill-they, who can still seriously contest the Imperium's supremacy should they wish to (they don't) - and that's *after* the Fall.
Before the Fall, when they didn't need the other races to survive, they would have had absolutely no reason whatsoever to even talk to humans, let alone ally themselves with them. The post-fall eldar term for the other races, mon-keigh, translates to "pond scum", FFS. As in, the eldar consider themselves as far above humans as humans consider themselves above pond scum.

I mean, the whole *point* of the Eldar race is that they were once far, far more than humanity could ever hope to be, both technologically and psychically, and even they could not stand against the hostile forces the universe arrayed against them. Even in their current fallen state they are a serious power in the galaxy. How, then, can humanity ever hope to survive, let alone return to greatness?

Take that away by randomly making GA humans the equal of pre-fall eldar (they were certainly more than a match for post-fall eldar), and why even bother to have the eldar in the setting at all?

The logical, and until the slowed retcon, official explanation for humanity's peerlessness during its golden age is that the Eldar empire and humanity at its height never co-existed, because the Fall took place long before humans ever reached the stars. Indeed, some old background material puts the fall before humanity even existed.

Or the obvious explanation: Golden Age Humans were on par with the Eldar in technological terms, and would have surpassed them if not for the Webway and Eldar psionics.

Bran Dawri wrote:


Wrong. Before the newcron codex and the earlier retcon to the Fall occurring in M30, the eldar, despite their current fallen state were, and still are a bunch of arrogant, speciecist pricks, who use other races for their own benefit (kill a complete human planet to save one eldar? No problem), will-they or nill-they, who can still seriously contest the Imperium's supremacy should they wish to (they don't) - and that's *after* the Fall.
Before the Fall, when they didn't need the other races to survive, they would have had absolutely no reason whatsoever to even talk to humans, let alone ally themselves with them. The post-fall eldar term for the other races, mon-keigh, translates to "pond scum", FFS. As in, the eldar consider themselves as far above humans as humans consider themselves above pond scum.

I mean, the whole *point* of the Eldar race is that they were once far, far more than humanity could ever hope to be, both technologically and psychically, and even they could not stand against the hostile forces the universe arrayed against them. Even in their current fallen state they are a serious power in the galaxy. How, then, can humanity ever hope to survive, let alone return to greatness?

Take that away by randomly making GA humans the equal of pre-fall eldar (they were certainly more than a match for post-fall eldar), and why even bother to have the eldar in the setting at all?

The logical, and until the slowed retcon, official explanation for humanity's peerlessness during its golden age is that the Eldar empire and humanity at its height never co-existed, because the Fall took place long before humans ever reached the stars. Indeed, some old background material puts the fall before humanity even existed.

*sigh* Retcons by GW have changed this. Also the Eldar hedonism and bringing about Slaanesh is what brought about the end of the DAot era! Take that away and there is no reason for the DAoT era to end.

I have already posted a supposition that can rationalize the fluff and even has evidence backing it up but no one pays attention and just bitches about changes .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
On the contrary, the Emperor is the most powerful psyker to have ever lived. That's precisely why the Chaos Powers fear him so, whereas the Chaos Powers scoff at the Eldar.

Have you checked out my DAoT humanity tech source thread, Admiral Valerian? What do you think?

It fits. In any case, the comparison between the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans is similar to the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo: the former had superior FTL and AI technology, but were equaled in everything else, and the latter actually had the potential to surpass the former and rival the Precursors. Same for 40k: the Eldar had superior FTL and psionics, but had the Golden Age not ended (also partly the fault of the Eldar), the Golden Age Humans would have surpassed the ancient Eldar thanks to Man's own psionic evolution (and the Emperor's influence from the shadows).

uh....Eldar having superior A.I tech?

You misunderstood my post. I was merely pointing out the parallels between the relationship of the ancient Eldar and the Golden Age Humans and the relationship between the Forerunners and the Ancient Humans from Halo.

Understood. Sorry.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

The Emperor is literally a Warp God in a human body. He started out as one thousand human psykers combined into one being, and has only grown from there.



Human technology wasn't derived from Necron tech. We don't even know, conclusively, that it's a C'tan imprisoned on Mars; I've seen a convincing argument that has Vaul being the "dragon" the Emperor imprisoned there. In either case, humanity didn't draw its technology from the being imprisoned on Mars; the AdMech set up shop there to get out of the conflicts on Terra, and even their tech is almost entirely derived from existing human knowledge or their own research, not the being imprisoned there.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

The Emperor is literally a Warp God in a human body. He started out as one thousand human psykers combined into one being, and has only grown from there.



Human technology wasn't derived from Necron tech. We don't even know, conclusively, that it's a C'tan imprisoned on Mars; I've seen a convincing argument that has Vaul being the "dragon" the Emperor imprisoned there. In either case, humanity didn't draw its technology from the being imprisoned on Mars; the AdMech set up shop there to get out of the conflicts on Terra, and even their tech is almost entirely derived from existing human knowledge or their own research, not the being imprisoned there.

We dont have a.convincing argument that its a c'tan on mars....Other than.. You know that whole book where they actually went and met the thing, and spoke to the keeper who watched it... Other than that you mean?

 Formosa wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

The Emperor is literally a Warp God in a human body. He started out as one thousand human psykers combined into one being, and has only grown from there.



Human technology wasn't derived from Necron tech. We don't even know, conclusively, that it's a C'tan imprisoned on Mars; I've seen a convincing argument that has Vaul being the "dragon" the Emperor imprisoned there. In either case, humanity didn't draw its technology from the being imprisoned on Mars; the AdMech set up shop there to get out of the conflicts on Terra, and even their tech is almost entirely derived from existing human knowledge or their own research, not the being imprisoned there.

We dont have a.convincing argument that its a c'tan on mars....Other than.. You know that whole book where they actually went and met the thing, and spoke to the keeper who watched it... Other than that you mean?

That may have been retconned, as the necron codex says that every C'tan (but The Flayer) was shattered.

Armadeus wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Admiral Valerian. The Emperor and Magnus were not and are not more powerful psykers than the Eldar. Eldar are the most powerful psykers that have ever lived. That is why Slaanesh likes them above all other races. The ONLY reason Eldar don't seem as powerful as the Emperor or Magnus is because Slaanesh puts artificial limitations on them.

If Slaanesh weren't around you would see Eldar using massive psychic powers beyond what any other race could dream of. But because their souls burn so brightly in the Warp if they use Psychic powers that every daemon in the warp comes looking for them, they limit themselves through the path of the Warlock and the path of the Farseer.

Never forget that those are self imposed limitations. They don't HAVE to limit themselves to that meagre level of power (unless they want to commit suicide).

The Emperor is literally a Warp God in a human body. He started out as one thousand human psykers combined into one being, and has only grown from there.



Human technology wasn't derived from Necron tech. We don't even know, conclusively, that it's a C'tan imprisoned on Mars; I've seen a convincing argument that has Vaul being the "dragon" the Emperor imprisoned there. In either case, humanity didn't draw its technology from the being imprisoned on Mars; the AdMech set up shop there to get out of the conflicts on Terra, and even their tech is almost entirely derived from existing human knowledge or their own research, not the being imprisoned there.

We dont have a.convincing argument that its a c'tan on mars....Other than.. You know that whole book where they actually went and met the thing, and spoke to the keeper who watched it... Other than that you mean?

That may have been retconned, as the necron codex says that every C'tan (but The Flayer) was shattered.

Regardless of whether it's a C'tan or not, the HH novel Mechanicum reveals that the reason the Emperor imprisoned the Dragon on Mars was because he needed it's dreams to influence the Humans living on Mars to develop advanced technology. Whether or not this was before or after the Golden Age was not said, but IMHO, it was before the Golden Age, because Mars was terraformed and settled before then, and just as some people can be biased towards Eldar, I can be biased towards Humans too