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After looking over the CSM, DA, and Daemon books I can't help but notice a distinct change in power level that was so very clear in the 5th edition rulebooks. Don't get me wrong they're playable but they don't have the firepower of GK, SW, Necrons or IG. I also noticed the 6th books seems so....meh. Just uninspiring. Not one grabbed me and says this is a cool idea.Anyone else get this feeling?

So because they are not as broken as the most broken codexes, they are uninspiring?

:|

Sorry, but that is kind of backwards.

Duh, GW is actually trying to introduce balance.

And GKs are hardly overpowered anymore. slightly above the power of 6th edition books, but not exceedingly so. Seriously, GK hate went out of style months ago.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Duh, GW is actually trying to introduce balance.

And GKs are hardly overpowered anymore. slightly above the power of 6th edition books, but not exceedingly so. Seriously, GK hate went out of style months ago.

...Except that you can still easily auto-win against us poor Daemons.

The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

JWhex wrote:
The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about...

Daemons laugh at MEQ - Slaanesh can even make GK's think twice.

I for one greet this new balance welcome as it was something which was really needed. Choice of army shouldn't be based on autowin lists but actual taste. Maybe then the tournament lists will be more diverse and Internet lists will go out of style.

like how 6th is going. Necrons are slowly looking less and less powerful, and almost every army can compete now. Really, everyone but Tau, (non FW) and Sisters of Battle and Templars is at least semi competetive, even if only as an ally.

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
I for one greet this new balance welcome as it was something which was really needed. Choice of army shouldn't be based on autowin lists but actual taste. Maybe then the tournament lists will be more diverse and Internet lists will go out of style.

Ditto with this sentiment. I prefer variety over auto win.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Duh, GW is actually trying to introduce balance.

And GKs are hardly overpowered anymore. slightly above the power of 6th edition books, but not exceedingly so. Seriously, GK hate went out of style months ago.

...Except that you can still easily auto-win against us poor Daemons.

Not with a list thats even remotly competitive.

Ah, I have seen this before. 5 years ago. Back then it was the Space Marines, crying, complaining and having tantrums that the codexes were becoming boring, stale and no flavor.

So is it happening again? I don't think so. While the codexes are not "over powered" at least it seems, boring, stale and no flavor seem to have gone away.

I just think people are still use to "OMG, over powered codexes" People just need to get use to "balanced codexes that can be played different ways now and no more one trick ponies."

I'm ecstatic that there are more than 1or 2 viable builds per codex and there aren't autowin builds. It's just that playing certain things don't scream interesting, including rules/fluff/models.

Experiment 626 wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about...

Daemons laugh at MEQ - Slaanesh can even make GK's think twice.

Not to mention some of the Nurgle psychic powers will devastate MEQ at close range. Also, Greater Unclean One is just.....a freakin animal. Only DE can put him down easy.

no AA?

Did someone miss the Soulgrinder?

And they can take an ADL like anybody else.

Soulgrinders aren't bad at dakkaing down fliers

Not stunning, but not too bad.

I like it how they are going for the balance thing. The new CSM codex got me finally into chaos after years of considering it. It is more and more possible to pick your units with the "I like this one" mentality than "I need this one to even have a chance" way.

 Grey Templar wrote:
no AA?

Did someone miss the Soulgrinder?

And they can take an ADL like anybody else.

*cough* Tyranids *cough*

His post was clearly referencing Daemons, at least thats how I read it.

relavent post.

JWhex wrote:
The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
no AA?

Did someone miss the Soulgrinder?

And they can take an ADL like anybody else.

*cough* Tyranids *cough*

Highlighted

Grey Templar wrote:His post was clearly referencing Daemons, at least thats how I read it.

relavent post.

JWhex wrote:
The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

Yeah I was just pointing our that the sky really isn't falling as badly for him as he thinks. He has more AA than Nids, and lets face it, they aren't exactly weak.

I would not be surprised at all if a year from now people were crowning 6th edition as the golden age of 40k.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
no AA?

Did someone miss the Soulgrinder?

And they can take an ADL like anybody else.

*cough* Tyranids *cough*

Highlighted

Grey Templar wrote:His post was clearly referencing Daemons, at least thats how I read it.

relavent post.

JWhex wrote:
The CSM and DA armies are fine. I dont see the demon armies as being balanced with them though. Any competent marine/power armor/shooting army should just wipe the floor with demons.

A T3, 5+, no significant shooting, no AAA, no fliers army is just sad, sad, sad, so much for balance in 6th edition. It lasted two whole books.

Yeah I was just pointing our that the sky really isn't falling as badly for him as he thinks. He has more AA than Nids, and lets face it, they aren't exactly weak.

Right, point taken

 Amaya wrote:
I would not be surprised at all if a year from now people were crowning 6th edition as the golden age of 40k.

By the time every army is brought up to date. Agreed.

I think what we're seeing is a lack of Matt Ward. Discount the IG vendetta for a moment, and then throw out Ward's codices, what have you got recently?

Demons? Not too shabby.
CSM? Not exactly hideously overpowered
Dark Angels? A rather nice codex.
Dark Eldar? Likewise.
Guard and SW? Throw out a few aberrations, and on the whole, they're pretty solid.

Yeah, I know it's easy to hate on Ward, but it's pretty easy to see that one author has a very different idea about what the game should look like than the rest of the authors.

Without this one person with his different way of seeing things, the rest of everything is pretty balanced. The only reason that it hasn't been obvious as of late is precisely because so many of the codices from a few years ago were written by that one other person.

 Ailaros wrote:
I think what we're seeing is a lack of Matt Ward. Discount the IG vendetta for a moment, and then throw out Ward's codices, what have you got recently?

Demons? Not too shabby.
CSM? Not exactly hideously overpowered
Dark Angels? A rather nice codex.
Dark Eldar? Likewise.
Guard and SW? Throw out a few aberrations, and on the whole, they're pretty solid.

Yeah, I know it's easy to hate on Ward, but it's pretty easy to see that one author has a very different idea about what the game should look like than the rest of the authors.

Without this one person with his different way of seeing things, the rest of everything is pretty balanced. The only reason that it hasn't been obvious as of late is precisely because so many of the codices from a few years ago were written by that one other person.

Yes you can look at that way, but I think you also need to take into consideration the aweful internal balance of some the 5th Ed codex's. SW who takes anything other than Grey Hunters for troops? Because they are that much better than the other troops, same goes for Long Fangs. Look at Tyranids, they codex (ATM) could literally be stripped down to half a dozen units.

Like you said it's easy to hate on Matt Ward, but his codex' are pretty internally well balanced, and are fairly well balanced with each other. At least his codex' were consistent in their power levels. (Looking at you Cruddance).

That's true. I will certainly say that the internal balance of codices is slowly improving over time. I don't think that Matt Ward is anything special in this regard, though.

It's probably a function of the fact that the game and its armies are just more mature now. If you're not having to completely redo the codices (only a few, like sisters, really need this), then you can just kind of tweak things. Tweaking tends not to create as serious of balance issues as inventing from whole cloth.

 Ailaros wrote:
That's true. I will certainly say that the internal balance of codices is slowly improving over time. I don't think that Matt Ward is anything special in this regard, though.

It's probably a function of the fact that the game and its armies are just more mature now. If you're not having to completely redo the codices (only a few, like sisters, really need this), then you can just kind of tweak things. Tweaking tends not to create as serious of balance issues as inventing from whole cloth.

Yeah sisters need a big re-do, purely too have more options, what they have now is strong, but it just lacks options. Black Templar need a big re-do, but that doesn't really count because, how big of a re-do can you really get as Space Marines?

I'm not saying that internal balance is all Matt Ward, and I by know means know all of the 5th ed codex' well enough to say for sure, but, as far as I see it, his are have the best internal balance. Maybe it helps that 3/4 of his 5th Ed codex's were power armoured?

Also I completly agree that it is probably more to do with the maturity of the game.

The 5th Edition books had more sizzle to them, but they were also far more open to abuse than the hardback codices that have been released to this point. Considering that this is a hobby that tends to attract more than its share of TFGs, it's probably a change for the best.

As a Guard player, I don't mind if they deflate some of the power units from our book. I just hope that they maintain the variety of the current Guard Codex, and put a bit more oomph into a couple of the non-competitive options found in the book.

6th is obviously striving for balance, but that is at LEAST a year away. Until the majority of armies receive a 6th ed update (likely considering we already have 3 Codices out in less than a year since release, possibly as high as 5 if the rumors hold) the broken 5th ed books of Necrons, IG, SW, and (too a slightly lesser extent now) GK will still be ruling the tournie circuits...

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
6th is obviously striving for balance, but that is at LEAST a year away. Until the majority of armies receive a 6th ed update (likely considering we already have 3 Codices out in less than a year since release, possibly as high as 5 if the rumors hold) the broken 5th ed books of Necrons, IG, SW, and (too a slightly lesser extent now) GK will still be ruling the tournie circuits...

Yes they will, but since GW doesn't support Tournaments, that won't bother them. Nor me for that matter

I like the current internal balance of the DA and CSM codexes. Haven't looked at the new CD codex yet, but I like where things are going.