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Here is what I can tell you about the standard M-G Short Pattern Lasgun;
1. It is the most precious item in your possession.
2. If you lose your lasgun, you will die.
3. You can drop it, hit it, use it as a club or submerge it, and it will keep on working (although it is recommended that you do not do any of these thing unless absolutely necessary).
4. It operates on a 19 megathule range.
5. On a fully automatic it fires 220 shots per minute.

All that being said I do not know what the conversion is from megathule to megajoule is.

 Happyjew wrote:
Here is what I can tell you about the standard M-G Short Pattern Lasgun;
1. It is the most precious item in your possession.
Believe me, a knife is better at this point
2. If you lose your lasgun, you will die.
And what if you find a Requiem on the ground?
3. You can drop it, hit it, use it as a club or submerge it, and it will keep on working (although it is recommended that you do not do any of these thing unless absolutely necessary).
Meh, nope. For example, a Vostroyan Lasgun is a piece of art in some strange ways, and if it drop to the ground too hard it will break
4. It operates on a 19 megathule range.
5. On a fully automatic it fires 220 shots per minute.

All that being said I do not know what the conversion is from megathule to megajoule is.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
The lasgun could easily be the strongest small arms weapon today.

Only problem being, everything else is just so much stronger. A lasgun seems to have varied effects based on how much ammo it has left (I remember reading that lasguns get weaker as you run out of ammo), the variant, and certain weather conditions (it is a laser after all). Las-guns have been shown to insta-kill standard soldiers (represented by T3 in game), and even do severe damage to Astartes. We also have las-guns that fail to make a dent in power armor. Power armor does have weakness, and any good shots can still kill the Marine.

If you can hit the weak points after all and get lucky. SM's are rather tough and gak. They can take a lot of damage.

With enough shots going down-range, somethings gotta hit

 Rysaer wrote:

Where did those pictures come out of Brother Captain Alexander?

Orks ones are from graphic novel "Blood and Thunder"
Tau one is from graphic novel "Fire and Honor"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

There, those orks have been killed probably from more than one single Guardsman.

It was 3 Armageddon Steel Legionares.

Here: the Stealthsuits are killed by the primary weapons of the Leman Russ Punisher, and that thing shoots a fuckhuge amount of bolts (the same of the Requiem), so again the suits aren't killed by flashlights.

Those are Multilaser shots from Chimera, 71'st Cadian don't have any Leman Russ Tanks with them - they have Hellhounds. As far as I know multilasers are like Lasguns but with grater fire rate.

 Lynata wrote:
]And fluff tends to be hyperbole, propaganda and exceptions

Prove this.

 washout77 wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 washout77 wrote:
The lasgun could easily be the strongest small arms weapon today.

Only problem being, everything else is just so much stronger. A lasgun seems to have varied effects based on how much ammo it has left (I remember reading that lasguns get weaker as you run out of ammo), the variant, and certain weather conditions (it is a laser after all). Las-guns have been shown to insta-kill standard soldiers (represented by T3 in game), and even do severe damage to Astartes. We also have las-guns that fail to make a dent in power armor. Power armor does have weakness, and any good shots can still kill the Marine.

If you can hit the weak points after all and get lucky. SM's are rather tough and gak. They can take a lot of damage.

With enough shots going down-range, somethings gotta hit

true.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Here is what I can tell you about the standard M-G Short Pattern Lasgun;
1. It is the most precious item in your possession.
Believe me, a knife is better at this point
2. If you lose your lasgun, you will die.
And what if you find a Requiem on the ground?
3. You can drop it, hit it, use it as a club or submerge it, and it will keep on working (although it is recommended that you do not do any of these thing unless absolutely necessary).
Meh, nope. For example, a Vostroyan Lasgun is a piece of art in some strange ways, and if it drop to the ground too hard it will break
4. It operates on a 19 megathule range.
5. On a fully automatic it fires 220 shots per minute.

All that being said I do not know what the conversion is from megathule to megajoule is.

It's the most precious item because if you lose your lasgun you will be shot. Actually.

If you find a better gun? You stick to your lasgun or sling it over your shoulder to use the other gun and hope it isn't xenos-tech or Chaos-tainted.

Yes, you don't want to get rid of the lasgun. THe commissar won't like that.

Let me try and clear up any misconception on my pov. I sometimes say things wrong from what I really meant cause I'm tired or cause my english is not too good.

To me fluff takes precedence over game mechanics and rules. TT rules and game mechanics for the rpg's and whatever however are accepted but i do take them on with a grain of salt cause as I said before, game mechanics can suffer from game balance reasons and the problems of broken builds and others.

I will still use them however to compliment fluff or have fluff compliment the rules. I hope this clears up my pov :-).

As for fluff v rules... Its rather a moot point to suggest one takes precedence over the other.
Fluff of course is written by different authors so its effects will vary in description.
Rules are not set in stone. The game today is very different to the 1st edition, and 2nd edition. Weapon choices and capabilities vary in power and capability, just look at the differences in the usefulness of vehicles over the last few editions.

You have to use both to get an idea of capability, neither rules nor fluff have precedence, but are used to support the other.


As for richocheting lasers... Entirely possible. I work with lasers, and they can deviate due to some surfaces, mettalics and mirrors for example. Richochet not likely, refract or reflect are entirely plausible.

I would base a lasguns capability against the autogun, which I interpret as an equivalent to todays assault rifles, they are virtually identical in rules, and are not 50 cal shots as that puts them into the realm of heavy stubber equivalents, which is well out of their league.

As for the art, doesn't matter if its a Nob, a marine or a grot, you hit a creature in its head then you will drop it. 2 wounds in game or not.
What it does relect is that if the lasgun hits say a shoulder or chest, the Nob will rip off your head. Its not a incapacitating wound for that creature.

In a summary, I don't think there's anything to suggest its more or less powerful than todays assault rifles, but it is lighter, easier logistics etc but doesn't hit any harder or weaker.

So for all you military enlisted... If an Ork nob is charging you down, hope you get a head shot.

 Eetion wrote:
As for fluff v rules... Its rather a moot point to suggest one takes precedence over the other.
Fluff of course is written by different authors so its effects will vary in description.
Rules are not set in stone. The game today is very different to the 1st edition, and 2nd edition. Weapon choices and capabilities vary in power and capability, just look at the differences in the usefulness of vehicles over the last few editions.

You have to use both to get an idea of capability, neither rules nor fluff have precedence, but are used to support the other.

I can agree with this.

As for the art, doesn't matter if its a Nob, a marine or a grot, you hit a creature in its head then you will drop it. 2 wounds in game or not.
What it does relect is that if the lasgun hits say a shoulder or chest, the Nob will rip off your head. Its not a incapacitating wound for that creature.

depends if it punched through the armor or the thickness of the flesh of the creature you're firing at. For example, Orks are tough bastards. Especially the leader Orks! Those things can take damage that would put down normal Orks.

True. But its still a man sized (ish) creature.

If it can drop an Ork... It can drop a Nob. Just more difficult.
Remember it doesn't have to kill just incapacitate. Eyes damaged, serious head wounds etc all count to end the creatures fight, loss of or serious damage to say the arm would not.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
True. But its still a man sized (ish) creature.

If it can drop an Ork... It can drop a Nob. Just more difficult.
Remember it doesn't have to kill just incapacitate. Eyes damaged, serious head wounds etc all count to end the creatures fight, loss of or serious damage to say the arm would not.

BlaxicanX wrote:Prove this.

I've quoted Marc Gascoigne who directly said as much - and which actually provides a believable "in-universe" explanation for the many conflicting interpretations throughout the material.
If you just don't want to accept what the people in charge of the stuff you read have to say about it, though ... well, there's no proof I could ever supply that can change that opinion.

 Lynata wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:Prove this.

I've quoted Marc Gascoigne who directly said as much - and which actually provides a believable "in-universe" explanation for the many conflicting interpretations throughout the material.
If you just don't want to accept what the people in charge of the stuff you read have to say about it, though ... well, there's no proof I could ever supply that can change that opinion.

That quote also applies to codexes from what I see.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:That quote also applies to codexes from what I see.

It certainly does - hence my reservations about anything presented in story form.
Such accounts are likely included to make an army seem more epic and awesome, so even assuming they'd be "true" (which is risky) I would expect them to be exceptional situations rather than the norm. You know, the stuff that legends are made from.

Of course each of us will treat the material differently. I guess I just have some sort of "internal guideline" for my perception where I consider what a source is attempting to express ... does it want to explain technical or organisational details? does it want to tell us of a heroic character? does it want to make a group look awesome? ... and tend to lend different levels of credence to them on that basis. Kind of like how you assume that the rules should be discarded because they incorporate balancing concerns.

 Lynata wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:That quote also applies to codexes from what I see.

It certainly does - hence my reservations about anything presented in story form.
Such accounts are likely included to make an army seem more epic and awesome, so even assuming they'd be "true" (which is risky) I would expect them to be exceptional situations rather than the norm. You know, the stuff that legends are made from.

Of course each of us will treat the material differently. I guess I just have some sort of "internal guideline" for my perception where I consider what a source is attempting to express ... does it want to explain technical or organisational details? does it want to tell us of a heroic character? does it want to make a group look awesome? ... and tend to lend different levels of credence to them on that basis. Kind of like how you assume that the rules should be discarded because they incorporate balancing concerns.

Story form only? The codexes themselves can be said to be propaganda especially the 5th edition SM codex. Don't be biased here Lyanata. If we got with your propaganda thing, then all 40k fluff is pretty much propaganda and can't be relied upon at all. This is your own logic I'm using here.

Stories showing events as they happened I don't see as propaganda. Stories told by people can be propaganda or not trusted fully.

I already clarified the rules thing above. Please read it. I state that this is my pov. So please stop trying to change it. I'm not trying to change your pov.

Lasguns are stronger than most modern guns and armour today. They are dangerous weapons.

Just that 38K years in the future, Mankind (and Xenos) and overcharged their killing capabilities resulting in ever killier wepaons (boltgun for example)

So strong, yes.
Vis-a-vis other 'current time' wepaons (40k) they are more on the weak side, being extremely reliable, cheap and easy to use and maintain is their saving grace, since hey it people could, they'd might as well haul a boltgun to make sure anything you fire at gets and stays dead.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:That quote also applies to codexes from what I see.

It certainly does - hence my reservations about anything presented in story form.
Such accounts are likely included to make an army seem more epic and awesome, so even assuming they'd be "true" (which is risky) I would expect them to be exceptional situations rather than the norm. You know, the stuff that legends are made from.

Of course each of us will treat the material differently. I guess I just have some sort of "internal guideline" for my perception where I consider what a source is attempting to express ... does it want to explain technical or organisational details? does it want to tell us of a heroic character? does it want to make a group look awesome? ... and tend to lend different levels of credence to them on that basis. Kind of like how you assume that the rules should be discarded because they incorporate balancing concerns.

Story form only? The codexes themselves can be said to be propaganda especially the 5th edition SM codex. Don't be biased here Lyanata. If we got with your propaganda thing, then all 40k fluff is pretty much propaganda and can't be relied upon at all. This is your own logic I'm using here.

This is Lynata's PoV and frankly it's fairly valid...

BlaxicanX wrote:
As far as what I've seen from various BL sources, in Eisenhorn we have lasguns firing shots strong enough to amputate his arm. On the other hand, in the Gaunt's Ghost series, Feygor takes a direct hit from one to his unarmored throat and isn't killed by it (though he does die an hour later from the wound).

I'd argue that in general a lasbolt is stronger than a modern day bullet, but not significantly so. Maybe a bit less than a 50. caliber round in devastation.

Feygor didn't die. He has an artificial voice box later in the series.

And that damage sounds agreeable with the added heat. A bolt of las energy is hot enough to instantly cauterize a wound. That kind of heat is going to have nasty effects on flesh, even if it misses. It wouldn't be shocking to say that you could get severe burns from a near miss. By the same token, hot-shot lasguns or hellguns, which have more power to their shots, would out and out vaporize parts off a target.

Then you need to take into effect shock.

If you have an arm suddenly burned off your body, you will probably go into shock and die.

As for the blood in the original images, I've hear similar things described in Star Wars novels, particularly Death Troopers. It describes someone getting shot in the head and their being blood and gore as opposed to cinders. This could be explained by this quote from Lexicanum. "The high amount of energy in the beam causes the immediate surface area of a target to be vaporized in a small explosion." Its not the las bolt thats causing the blood, but rather the sudden small explosion. The explosion could be caused by the sudden evaporation of moisture in the target it hits, all that gas needs somewhere to go, and out is probably the best bet. Any recently cauterized wound could, in theory, be torn right back open by that.

Going back to Feygor, this may not have happened as the bolt passed through his throat, rather than smacked against it.

This is of course, just speculation.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Here is what I can tell you about the standard M-G Short Pattern Lasgun;
1. It is the most precious item in your possession.
Believe me, a knife is better at this point
2. If you lose your lasgun, you will die.
And what if you find a Requiem on the ground?
3. You can drop it, hit it, use it as a club or submerge it, and it will keep on working (although it is recommended that you do not do any of these thing unless absolutely necessary).
Meh, nope. For example, a Vostroyan Lasgun is a piece of art in some strange ways, and if it drop to the ground too hard it will break
4. It operates on a 19 megathule range.
5. On a fully automatic it fires 220 shots per minute.

All that being said I do not know what the conversion is from megathule to megajoule is.

I'm sure you can cite your sources. My source is "The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer" Revised Edition, first published 945.M41, page 18.

 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
A bolt of las energy is hot enough to instantly cauterize a wound.

Any laser capable of doing damage comparable to a modern assault rifle wouldn't cauterize anything. It would cause the blood around the wound to instantly vaporize, leaving a huge, nasty wound.

Cautery is a pretty low-level heat compared to the heat necessary to burn through ceramics and metal, then still have the energy to kill someone.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:That quote also applies to codexes from what I see.

It certainly does - hence my reservations about anything presented in story form.
Such accounts are likely included to make an army seem more epic and awesome, so even assuming they'd be "true" (which is risky) I would expect them to be exceptional situations rather than the norm. You know, the stuff that legends are made from.

Of course each of us will treat the material differently. I guess I just have some sort of "internal guideline" for my perception where I consider what a source is attempting to express ... does it want to explain technical or organisational details? does it want to tell us of a heroic character? does it want to make a group look awesome? ... and tend to lend different levels of credence to them on that basis. Kind of like how you assume that the rules should be discarded because they incorporate balancing concerns.

Story form only? The codexes themselves can be said to be propaganda especially the 5th edition SM codex. Don't be biased here Lyanata. If we got with your propaganda thing, then all 40k fluff is pretty much propaganda and can't be relied upon at all. This is your own logic I'm using here.

Stories showing events as they happened I don't see as propaganda. Stories told by people can be propaganda or not trusted fully.

I already clarified the rules thing above. Please read it. I state that this is my pov. So please stop trying to change it. I'm not trying to change your pov.

It is. It is all propaganda. It's all told from a certain point of view (usually pro-Imperial) and is, according to a bit of a joke from GW years ago, translated for us from Gothic into its closest, readable format, which to us appears as bad Latin. If it's not a table of game-mechanics appearing in a Codex, it's slanted, biased reporting of events that happened long ago, far away and nowhere near the person relating the tale to us.

Boltguns are much better than Lasguns in the fluff but are quite meh on the tabletop. Not as meh as Lasguns, mind you, but still meh.

The actual strength of the Lasgun is S3 AP-. The true and factual strength, like all things in 40k, depends on the author. Pick what strength you like and stick with it. My personal take is that a Lasgun can kill just about any man sized creature if it hits it right and a barrage of them is lethal even to terminators.