Help me present my case to my FLGS to ban Teclis

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**Phragonist**

I've read on here that many tournaments ban Teclis. We are playing an escalation league at my FLGS and a friend of mine playing high elves said "I'm going to bring Teclis at 2000 points lolol". I do not want this to happen. What points should I make to the people in charge at the FLGS to get Teclis banned? I don't want to be like "TECLIS OH PEE, BANN HIMM", I'd like to go in there with the specific reasons why he should be banned, without sounding like I'm just whining. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

**captain collius**

Open the page to his rules.

2. The gather info packets from Major Tournaments most of which have banned him.

**Sigvatr**

Refer to every major tournament having him banned due to him being way over the top (which he is!) and ruining the fun for other players due to the game suddenly being extemely in favor of the HE player, given that there's no hard counter to Teclis.

One of his "arguments" will be to point at other SC that he considers too strong, but you can again point at major tournaments. Hint: the ETC bans all SC.

And in the end, the best advice is: don't play what you're not comfortable with. Talk to other players, ask them how they fell about it and if they think the same, go to the TO in a group.

Best advice in the worst case: if he is allowed to bring him, do not play him. If on a tournament, just tell the TO you surrender and go have a drink with a friend or, in the very best case, play another small game with someone else in the store and have fun. That's what the game is about. That Teclis can will stand around alone while you have fun playing an enjoyable match with a good sportsman.

**tmarichards**

In a hobby that divides people across the world in many different viewpoints, often very fractiously, pretty much everyone agrees that Teclis is too cost-efficient. That alone should be a good indicator, as is the fact that he is banned at pretty much every major tournament in the world.

**Grey Templar**

Experience playing against him has resulted in a very rare case of consensus accross the world which has universally labeled him as OP.

As for convincing people with specifics, just show everybody his rules and explain how stupidly powerful Ignoring the first miscast you make each turn, getting IF on every casting roll of a double, and being Lore Master. Also consider he can just hide in a unit of PG at the back of the army blasting away with magic.

He basically ignores all the bad stuff at magic while making the good stuff even better.

**JWhex**

Hopefully the Teclis issue will solve itself soon with the new HE army book.

**Sigvatr**

Hopefully so.

Right now, everyone who brings Teclis to the table is ruining the game for his opponent on purpose - which is, to me, an intolerable behavior and truly shows how much you care about sportsmanship. I let our local HE player try him in a 2.5k game and he agreed that he needs to be toned down. It just isn't fun if a mage can spam 6ths without negative consequences. At the very least, he should always suffer a miscast with every doubles, not just 6s.

He is rightfully banned from all comp matches. The sooner he, in his current iteration, is removed from the game, the better.

**DukeRustfield**

His only remote counterpart was Khairos. Who I never even considered nearly as bad because he was a monster with poo stats.

But in the new DoC book, they even nerfed the hell out of him.

**jonolikespie**

If you don't want to come off like someone whining (not saying calling Teclis OP is whining) maybe instead of saying 'no Teclis' you should suggest fixing Teclis. In my area he isn't banned but his special rules are changes to that he only ignores the first miscast per game, or keeps first each turn but miscasts on any double.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

In some tournaments in Ireland where SC's aren't outright banned there are nasty (-1 VP) and nice (+1 VP) systems whereas teclis for instance is +4 nasty points so even if you 20 nil someone then you only get 16 VP's for it and your opponent gets 4, it basically allows players to bring all the filth they want but they'll be punished for it

**Necroshea**

Tell your friend to not be an arse instead of going behind his back to the TO. If he's worth the title of friend surely he'll understand.

**Amaya**

I would just recommend a ban of all SCs with the exception of those that alter your force orginisation, ie Troll King allowing Trolls as core and similar cases.

**jonolikespie**

Amaya wrote:
I would just recommend a ban of all SCs with the exception of those that alter your force orginisation, ie Troll King allowing Trolls as core and similar cases.

I think a better way to do it is to ban all SCs not from the current edition. THat's the problem with Teclis, he was built to be a great caster in an edition where magic was very different, as the edition and the magic phase changed he became stupidly broken. Caster SCs from this edition are perfectly fine.

**captain collius**

jonolikespie wrote:
Amaya wrote:
I would just recommend a ban of all SCs with the exception of those that alter your force orginisation, ie Troll King allowing Trolls as core and similar cases.

I think a better way to do it is to ban all SCs not from the current edition. THat's the problem with Teclis, he was built to be a great caster in an edition where magic was very different, as the edition and the magic phase changed he became stupidly broken. Caster SCs from this edition are perfectly fine.

Yeah also Combat SC's from 7th also tend towards not being as useful. Kroq-gar, Tyrion, Eltharion

**Mr. S Baldrick**

Tell him he can use Teclis, but he can only use high magic.

**Krellnus**

Attention everyone in the escalation league, I am not confident in my ability to think of anymore than basic tactics in my games leading to my request for a house rule that Teclis be banned because I as an individual refuse to innovate my tactics to combat this threat, all those in favour, say aye.

**jonolikespie**

Krellnus wrote:
Attention everyone in the escalation league, I am not confident in my ability to think of anymore than basic tactics in my games leading to my request for a house rule that Teclis be banned because I as an individual refuse to innovate my tactics to combat this threat, all those in favour, say aye.

...

No. If there is 1 thing all fantasy players can agree on it's that a character who can be loremaster of whatever he feels like at the time, IF on any doubles and ignores the first miscast every turn is broken.

**Krellnus**

And what? Is so vulnerable he needs to be in a unit that totals nearly 800 points just to last past turn 1? I would hardly call that anything near overpowered.

FYI its not IF on any double, its IF on any double provided he meets the casting requirement of the spell.

**Gorbad**

Krellnus wrote:
And what? Is so vulnerable he needs to be in a unit that totals nearly 800 points just to last past turn 1? I would hardly call that anything near overpowered.

FYI its not IF on any double, its IF on any double provided he meets the casting requirement of the spell.

800pts that can more or less wipe your 2500pts army and that's not really the best case scenario.

I'd go with the hint by someone above me and just surrender before deployment and try to get a friendly game till the next opponent has finished his game and then play on.

**jonolikespie**

Where has 800 points come from? When I see Teclis run it is in a unit of 20 arches, which is about 220-250 points, and he still ruins thing.

**Sigvatr**

Krellnus wrote:
Attention everyone in the escalation league, I am not confident in my ability to think of anymore than basic tactics in my games leading to my request for a house rule that Teclis be banned because I as an individual refuse to innovate my tactics to combat this threat, all those in favour, say aye.

Attention comp layers, Krellnus is here to give you a lecture on how to play WHFB.

Teclis is overpowered. Period. It's the consensus of all WHFB players with the slightest idea of balance. Period. Fighting Teclis requires no new tactic, as he cannot be beaten in the magic phase and there is no reliable hard counter to him.

As said above, if your TO wants to ruin the game for everyone but the HE player, let him to do so. Forfeit at start, give your opponent 0 fairness points and play an actual game with another person in the store. Or have a drink. Or go have lunch / dinner.

**Krellnus**

jonolikespie wrote:
Where has 800 points come from? When I see Teclis run it is in a unit of 20 arches, which is about 220-250 points, and he still ruins thing.

Teclis
Noble with Banner of the World Dragon
20+ Phoenix guard with full command and the power dice banner
Additional character to displace teclis from the front rank in combat/take challenges.

Sigvatr wrote:
Krellnus is here to give you a lecture on how to play WHFB.

Says the guy who pushes comp in every other post....

**jonolikespie**

Krellnus wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Where has 800 points come from? When I see Teclis run it is in a unit of 20 arches, which is about 220-250 points, and he still ruins thing.

Teclis
Noble with Banner of the World Dragon
20+ Phoenix guard with full command and the power dice banner
Additional character to displace teclis from the front rank in combat/take challenges.

That's just wasteful and isn't NEEDED. A 220 point unit of archers is all you NEED keep Teclis alive.

**ZebioLizard2**

jonolikespie wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Where has 800 points come from? When I see Teclis run it is in a unit of 20 arches, which is about 220-250 points, and he still ruins thing.

Teclis
Noble with Banner of the World Dragon
20+ Phoenix guard with full command and the power dice banner
Additional character to displace teclis from the front rank in combat/take challenges.

That's just wasteful and isn't NEEDED. A 220 point unit of archers is all you NEED keep Teclis alive.

The last time someone didn't take that combination they ended up losing Teclis to War-machines, repeatedly.

**Jackal**

Granted some characters are better than others, but teclis is on the edge of being near impossible to counter.

With my lizards, i can decide to be an arse and run a twin slann list, now theres a problem when im still getting hit hard in the magic phase, even with both of them

With my skaven, i just have serious problems as my bell unit tends to get hit and destroyed if i try to go magic heavy, and my units get torn to pieces at a rate which worries me, even with 300+ models in a 2.5k list.
I think the only time ive killed him was simply because he was in a small unit, and that took some shooting then skitterleaping deathmaster near by him to finish it.

**Robbknoll**

Come on guys we all know whats really wrong with Teclis, his Str and Toughness stat being only 2!

Been reading these forums for a long time and we know Teclis is a very strong character and in the essence of 8th Ed he will need to be re-evaluated, but i think we'll all agree that this topic is like flogging a dead horse ha!
On a slightly different topic, i've been to many tournaments for other games where there are clear tier list and glaringly obvious teams/characters that are better than the rest, but i would never turn around to a player and say "im not playing you because you picked the best/cheapest character", i personally would find that completely childish and a complete lack of sportsmanship. I hated playing against 40 khorne marauders with the rage banner but that didnt stop me playing nor did it stop me enjoying the game. Actually feels pretty good when you kill stuff like that haha

But in a friendly atmosphere id see that point, maybe you dont want that kind of match or hassle, but in a tournament suck it up and play against the odds. So some people in here talk of sportsmanship but from the comments i dont see much. Ive seen football teams been destroyed 13 - 0 in world cup qualifiers with no hope of even scoring a goal before the match started. With the previous logic in mind why did they not just say we're not showing up

So my 2 cents would be get rid of SC altogether or go with the previously mentioned nasty/nice system. the latter system i think would be kinda cool for a league in general so you can throw in all the juicy cheesy characters for fluff and have a somewhat fair end result

Let me just reiterate though, i do think the character Teclis is nuttier than a squire turd

**DukeRustfield**

jonolikespie wrote:
I think a better way to do it is to ban all SCs not from the current edition. THat's the problem with Teclis, he was built to be a great caster in an edition where magic was very different, as the edition and the magic phase changed he became stupidly broken. Caster SCs from this edition are perfectly fine.

I think that's a pretty good idea. Of all the SCs in new 8th books, I can't say any scream OP. Khalida is very good, but hardly crushing. Kairos I don't think is that great anymore--certainly not nearly as good as before. Tamurkahn (chaos dwarf book) is certainly OP, but he wasn't meant to be taken except in a campaign where basically everyone is fighting him. Archaeon is a bit over-the-top I think.

**TCWarRoom**

How was Fateweaver nerfed?

**captain collius**

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Tell him he can use Teclis, but he can only use high magic.

Are you trying to break things.

**HoverBoy**

By the time you convince anyone to ban anything the new HE book will be out.