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LOL so true ^^^



DP only get armorbane when smashing>?

I guess if you run a BT, get 2 rolls on the greater reward and hope for AB/FB. 7-8 attacks charging str 8 2d6 armor penn.

However for most LR a smashing dp can do it. If i saw a DA larc im gonna throw drones and a DP at it. In the 2 games playing against that is what i did and glanced it down. Hounds, chariots, and other Dp took on the bikes. I then deepstruck 3 units of plagues in to terrain all around the other LRC. And joint charged it to following turn (with a dp, what was left of the drons, and 1 unit of plague bearers) to glance it down.

DA LRC is probably the biggest thing to deal with for a daemons army. Flyers are not scary, but i have not played against a necron flyer list yet either.

I really wonder how much of a threat necron air would be.
Tomb king illustrated that 3 annilation barges, one wraith unit, and a lord would cause some problems for one squad of seekers and one squad of khorne dogs. However, what happens when there are 3 seeker/dog squads, 1 squad of fiends, and 2 bloodthirsters?
I think its easy for 'crons to be overwhelmed. I might be totally wrong -- I often am.

I'm more worried of armies with a few flyers than armies with 4+ of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsilber wrote:
However for most LR a smashing dp can do it

I agree.
Heck, any greater daemon smashing will do it. I played a game this weekend where a GUO smashed a soul grinder, a defiler, a dual PF hellbrute, and a black mace DP. The GUO killed the back mace DP and the hellbrute in one round of combat!
Smashing is awesome. Its even better when you have a weapon like "The Eternal Blade"

Has anyone noticed that Grey Knights are now SUPER effective versus this new Codex? The lack of Eternal Warrior and Daemons needing to use psyker powers, it seems that GK function against the Daemons as intended.
A local Daemon player is heralded as a generally amazing player has run into my buddy (a competative local GK player) in the last three tourneys and left with a pretty severe beating each time. Preferred Enemy plus instant killing monsterous creatures (and even if you fail to power up, have to roll on the Nemesis leadership thing), denying the witch like crazy, having a reenforced aegis, using dreadknights (that turn off gifts),...

I think if Daemons really take off, we'll see a lot more GK hit the table (and we all missed them, I'm sure!).

About the dreadknight denying gifts, is there such a thing in the new daemon codex? never played as GK's or played daemons before the new codex

Personally after playing a few more games there appears to be a few competitive builds available.

Stand out builds include grimoire for a 2++, rerollable on Tzeentch.
Seekers and demonettes seem quite nasty accompanied by Skarbrand.

What seems essential to any primary daemons attachment is Fateweavers abilities for rerolls for grimoire and the warpstorm table.

Will be using fateweaver tonight against a ork horde list, will be interesting to see how he does!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well another tabling for my list, really didnt think it would be that effective but it has!, lost one DP to gazghull and failing my grimoure test twice as I had fateweaver's reroll.

Fateweaver not 100% on, at least my LoC can get into combat and have a 3 plus save with grimoure rather then fateweavers 2 plus which I never want to be in combat with. Overall his powers werent brillant, they werent bad but I didnt really need them, plus perils of the warp three times in a row did not help at all! ha. Re rolling on the warp table didnt do much either but only got 4 turns and forgot to roll on one turn


My issue in this game was remembering the many dice rolls I had, the dice rolling in my army is a LOT, it will not die rolls suffered a lot.

The good thing about the game was 10 horrors taking a charge from gazaghull, warboss and 4 nobz, lost 6 in total the first turn then 1 in the second and none in the last turn before it was called, they did have the grimoure on them that turn though!. 15 saves made..... (re rolled two ones)

I played a game yesterday against Eldar and it went pretty well. Killed Eldrad turn 1 with an 11 on my first Warp Storm roll.

I used Fateweaver, a Nurgle Souldgrinder, a unit of Flamers, Screamers, one Herald of Tzeentch and two squads of troops ( 1 Horrors, 1 Daemonettes ). With Eldrad gone so fast, I really didn't have to worry about his psychic defenses, which was a big help. But I'm hoping that with the ability to reroll one die, I can avoid the worst of it in the future. Fateweavers ability to smooth out various results is going to be very helpful. Especially when he's got a rerollable 2++ from the Grimiore (I didn't miss a 3+ all game, but did have to use the reroll on it once).

Fighting Eldar seems like an entirely luck thing, every army is going to have either Eldrad or a Farseer and with them around casting psychic powers is just not feasible without popping your head...

How did you find the flamers?

Seems like Fateweaver isn't bad at all though~

 Makutsu wrote:
Fighting Eldar seems like an entirely luck thing, every army is going to have either Eldrad or a Farseer and with them around casting psychic powers is just not feasible without popping your head...

Yeah, I was actually a little said that Eldrad died so fast. I wanted to see how my list matched up to a list with good psychic defenses.

How did you find the flamers?

The flamers did well, but I wasn't fighting anything with a 3+ armor save. They're not the powerhouse they used to be, but against the right opponents, they can still be devastating. I keep one squad of them in the list mostly as insurance against my son's infiltrating Genestealers. In this case, they slaughtered more than their points cost in Dire Avengers before acting as a speed bump to a Harlequin Squad.

Seems like Fateweaver isn't bad at all though~

I was initially pretty dismayed by what I saw when I first got the new Codex, but I've been happy with him so far. I'm going to continue using him for a bit. I paid almost $60 for the model dammit.

I don't know about daemons as a primary but I have had great success with them in my CSM. 2 full units of daemonettes and a unit of seekers along with my maulerfiend and chaos spawn make for an awesome and terrifying forward threat for my four 5 man squads of noise marines and the banners allow me put my Obliterators right where I need them. I don't use helldrakes in my local because of all the vendettas and contemptor dreads around my parts. The local DA players hate this list most of all. Deathwing or ravenwing, slannesh troops eat them all. I did have to make my own slannesh themed skull cannon because it is really quite useful.

Sounds good; I want to pick up a couple of Maulerfiends to run a similar list It's just too bad that icons can't help Oblits, since they lack a Daemonic Alignment. All they can get is a Mark, which is a different rule.

I am currently thinking of getting a Soulgrinder, whats your opinions on these?, I am liking the str 10 shot as the str8 is ordanance plus it gives my army some ranged anti armour, plus if I am using the skyfire option a extra snap shot (possibly with prescience) at str 10 will be good when it works!

I will be running tzeentch ones as that is what the rest of my army is, nurgle would be nice but it would be too gamey for this list, the whole reason why I am thinking of dropping a DP for a soulgrinder, that and getting enough pts for another herald and more horrors, or just a lot more horrors

Well, I faced (with my Necrons) a CD army in an RTT (1650 pts) at the last weekend.

The Daemons army had LoC, 2x10 Daemonettes, 2x PBs, 3 Slaanesh Chariots w/ Heralds, 2 slanneshi Soulgrinders, 5 Fiends.
I was impressed by the speed of the army. Daemons deployed first. I've countered this by deploying on one corner in the backfield.
At the end of the game, the CD army fell apart with one Herald left while the Necron army was largely intact.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Sounds good; I want to pick up a couple of Maulerfiends to run a similar list It's just too bad that icons can't help Oblits, since they lack a Daemonic Alignment. All they can get is a Mark, which is a different rule.

Oblits are a demonic alignment of nothing, which is fine just like furies. They will just have to scatter d6

For me, i've only lost one game since the new book came out.


In regards to the pre-game rolling, once you are used to it, it goes very quick. Only difference it's made to me, is that I take a little book, and write in, say

Keeper of secrets:
WL trait:
Psy power:
Gift1:
Gift:

Khorne Herald:
Gift1:

And so on. Then it's just a case of rolling a dice for each thing on the list, takes a minute at most if you have this written out. I'm just going to photocopy a few "Templates" for my little book, so I can just be ready to jot down from the start

Warpstorm can be brilliant, can be crap, but in either case, it's never swung a game for me, even when I lost my daemon prince to it

Deep strike, is the best advantage this book gets. Why? Well, your army can deploy in a whole range of different ways, depending on who you are going to be facing. Longrange shooting army? Deepstrike your horrors, rather than let them get shot up turn one. Deepstrike one assault unit behind, and run one to the front, so they can only deal with one before you sandwich them with both. Loads of crazy stuff you can do with them

Daemons, are really, really good, if you know how to use them, and can adapt with the random element. Even with all the crazy tables, and the random gifts, I still say the game comes down to 80% skill/20% luck with daemons, as opposed to 90% skill/ 10% luck with other armies.

 Evileyes wrote:
For me, i've only lost one game since the new book came out.

I've lost two out of 10 or so. My losses were against my son's dual Flyrant list. All of my other games (against Eldar, Space Marines, Necrons) have been solid wins for me. My losses to my son were my first few games with the new book, so I think I'd do a little better now.

In regards to the pre-game rolling, once you are used to it, it goes very quick. Only difference it's made to me, is that I take a little book, and write in, say

Keeper of secrets:
WL trait:
Psy power:
Gift1:
Gift:

Khorne Herald:
Gift1:

And so on. Then it's just a case of rolling a dice for each thing on the list, takes a minute at most if you have this written out. I'm just going to photocopy a few "Templates" for my little book, so I can just be ready to jot down from the start

I'm writing a list-building app for my phone right now, I think I'm going to add a 'Bookkeeping' feature to it for stuff like this.

Warpstorm can be brilliant, can be crap, but in either case, it's never swung a game for me, even when I lost my daemon prince to it

Daemons, are really, really good, if you know how to use them, and can adapt with the random element. Even with all the crazy tables, and the random gifts, I still say the game comes down to 80% skill/20% luck with daemons, as opposed to 90% skill/ 10% luck with other armies.

I agree with this, but the right list choices can help with this. I played a game last night where Fateweaver's reroll abilities were key. I've avoided rolls of 2 and 3 on the warpstorm table, and last night I turned a 7 (rolled a 6 and a 1) into an 11 by choosing to reroll just the 1. Eldrad got turned into a Herald. Re-rolling grounding tests and one D6 from a 3D6 psychic power check (runes of warding) were so helpful.

I don´t have the codex yet so could someone tell me is it true that you can get 4 heralds per HQ slot.

Srhike wrote:
I don´t have the codex yet so could someone tell me is it true that you can get 4 heralds per HQ slot.

Yes, but only once per forceorg, so you can only have 5 herald's max (4 in one slot, then one in the other slot)

Therefore the best way to do things, is to go one greater daemon, and then up to 4 herald's to help your troops out.

On the topic of soulgrinders, they are fantastic. AV13, with a 5+ invulnerable (And a potential 3+ for a soulgrinder with mark of nurgle, grinder in cover is godly)

The ap3 large blast, in my mind, is a must, because it's devastating against pretty much everything. The strength 10 ap1 shot is tempting, but it's on a ballistic skill of 3, the soulgrinder is too expencive IMO for one shot a turn, missing half the time. There is plenty of good anti tank in this book, no real point of using your grinder purely for that

I hate to say it but the more I look at it fateweaver seems to be the only way to balance this army out some and help swing the dice in your favor as I am still of the belief that you need the dice to go atleast average or above average for this army to win consistently. Most of the games people are posting seem to favor there dice going very well. I have had a few games where the grimiore me on multiple turns taking my save even lower rather then helping me stay alive. It is a high risk, high reward item.

As for the comments about grey knights. Certain builds with this army will be hard countered by the standard grey knight build. Had a Blood Thirster get instant gibbed the other day because it failed one 3++ save. Was painful to remove him.

I would say there are 2 competitive build types.

Either Elitist build that includes Fatewevaer for the consistency control.

Or Horde lists that really don't care about Warpstorm and do not need things like Grimoire.

FW is definitely the big way to mitigate warp storm. That being said, taking large units and champions where you can (5pts to halve the chance of losing your big HQ on a WS result of 3? Sounds pretty good) is the other big way to do it. Large numbers of models throwing large numbers of dice, and never rolling Morale or Pinning, are normally going to perform.

krazykishere wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Sounds good; I want to pick up a couple of Maulerfiends to run a similar list It's just too bad that icons can't help Oblits, since they lack a Daemonic Alignment. All they can get is a Mark, which is a different rule.

Oblits are a demonic alignment of nothing, which is fine just like furies. They will just have to scatter d6

Sadly not so. Daemonic Alignment means you have the Daemon of Khorne, Daemon of Slaanesh, Daemon of Nurgle or Daemon of Tzeentch special rule. If you don't have one of those, you don't have a daemonic alignment at all. The icon rules are clear that if you have the same daemonic alignment as the icon, you don't scatter; and that if you have a different one you only scatter 1d6. But there's no benefit if you don't have a daemonic alignment.

Will have to try Fatey again, in the only game I used him in I had prescience, molten beam is it (str 8 melta weapon) invisability!!!, and enfeeable maybe. Enfeeable it just the nuts, it was about the 3rd time that appeared in my list (3 DP's with 2 powers each!) I hardly used the tzeentch powers on him as I have only really looked at flickring fire.

One bad run I had three perils of the warp in a frigging row on fateweaver!, had to cast endurance on him for it will not die!, invisilbtity, should have been awesome, on horrors in some woods, 5 plus cover save plus shrouded and stealth,2 plus save re rolling 1's..... but they didnt get shot at all game! haha, plus I had more horrors not in cover so any wise opponent would just focus fire on those.

His re roll saved a DP getting grounded (then would have been charged) saved my herald with a failed LOS roll and that was the rolls made in my opponents turn!. The re rolls on the table did nowt though.

Thinking about it, I can really see the benefit for fateweaver in my list, it is just the amount of CC damage kicked out by the LoC in the 3 games before hand was quite impressive, fatey just does not have that though.

I hate to say it but the more I look at it fateweaver seems to be the only way to balance this army out some and help swing the dice in your favor as I am still of the belief that you need the dice to go atleast average or above average for this army to win consistently. Most of the games people are posting seem to favor there dice going very well. I have had a few games where the grimiore me on multiple turns taking my save even lower rather then helping me stay alive. It is a high risk, high reward item.

I'd agree on the Fateweaver. While the Warp Storm is often non-intrusive, some of the results are devastating. In addition, the ability to re-roll the Grimnoire is crucial.

As for the comments about grey knights. Certain builds with this army will be hard countered by the standard grey knight build. Had a Blood Thirster get instant gibbed the other day because it failed one 3++ save. Was painful to remove him.

GK are one of the rough ones for Daemons. I don't know that there is much to do besides choosing targets wisely.

Example of why daemons are competitive but that they will have a hard time winning a prolonged series of games (as in a GT). Keep in mind that this is just anecdotal.

Just had a 2v2 game in which my partner and I both played daemons against Tau + Orks. We brought a fairly fast and aggressive army with 40 seekers, only 3 FMC's, 3 blocks of Tzeentch Heralds + horrors, a large block of daemonettes and bloodletters, some crushers, a skullcannon and 3 grinders. Now we didn't really bring optimized lists and didn't go there with a plan to play 2v2 (it was more impromptu), but our opponents didn't really bring tough tournament lists either. On Turn 2, we were ready to pounce on our opponents and then on the Warp Storm table, we roll a 4....-1 on all daemon Inv saves!!! With that, his nobs actually beat our seekers in combat and on their turn, they shot down a lot of our guys since we were aggressively advancing and for the most part, out in the open. That 1 warpstorm roll hurt our army more than anything as our opponents brought a shooty army and really capitalized on it.

While the Warpstorm table is not all that bad, just one bad roll on it can change the tide of the game. And not everyone wants to bring Fateweaver in their army. Had the roll been anything else, I think we would have won that battle handily.

While the Warpstorm table is not all that bad, just one bad roll on it can change the tide of the game. And not everyone wants to bring Fateweaver in their army. Had the roll been anything else, I think we would have won that battle handily.

The Warpstorm table is definitely the greatest concern. 1,2, and 3 are absolutely brutal. If you take multiple Heralds or a bunch of MCs, you have to worry about losing them to a bad roll and a 3d6 ld test. As you mentioned, -1 to invulnerable saves is devastating.

jy2 wrote:Example of why daemons are competitive but that they will have a hard time winning a prolonged series of games (as in a GT). Keep in mind that this is just anecdotal.

Just had a 2v2 game in which my partner and I both played daemons against Tau + Orks. We brought a fairly fast and aggressive army with 40 seekers, only 3 FMC's, 3 blocks of Tzeentch Heralds + horrors, a large block of daemonettes and bloodletters, some crushers, a skullcannon and 3 grinders. Now we didn't really bring optimized lists and didn't go there with a plan to play 2v2 (it was more impromptu), but our opponents didn't really bring tough tournament lists either. On Turn 2, we were ready to pounce on our opponents and then on the Warp Storm table, we roll a 4....-1 on all daemon Inv saves!!! With that, his nobs actually beat our seekers in combat and on their turn, they shot down a lot of our guys since we were aggressively advancing and for the most part, out in the open. That 1 warpstorm roll hurt our army more than anything as our opponents brought a shooty army and really capitalized on it.

While the Warpstorm table is not all that bad, just one bad roll on it can change the tide of the game. And not everyone wants to bring Fateweaver in their army. Had the roll been anything else, I think we would have won that battle handily.

My point exactly. At that point the dice can really take you out of the game. No other army in the game currently can have one dice roll that can nerf there army every turn of the game. I rolled that result last night and I was playing against eldar. Luckily I had fateweaver and re-rolled it for more of a friendly result. I hate it when characters in a book come down as almost an auto include to stay competitive.

JGrand wrote:

While the Warpstorm table is not all that bad, just one bad roll on it can change the tide of the game. And not everyone wants to bring Fateweaver in their army. Had the roll been anything else, I think we would have won that battle handily.

The Warpstorm table is definitely the greatest concern. 1,2, and 3 are absolutely brutal. If you take multiple Heralds or a bunch of MCs, you have to worry about losing them to a bad roll and a 3d6 ld test. As you mentioned, -1 to invulnerable saves is devastating.

I have also had army wide leadership test and killed off a few units. To get that result late game when your troops are already beat up can be game changing.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

labmouse wrote:
How will this effect a 6 round tourney? It means your relying upon a little more luck than not. However look at the 'top armies' today.
- Necron Air Force
- Rapid assault (DE/Eldar beast packs, wraithwing, etc)
- Blob Guard/MEQ
- 'Nid psychic choir
- Helldrakes
- GK
hat is your real measuring stick for how they will do in the national event level.

I would find a lot of joy in going to a tourney, just to throw things off. Bring a hard counter to one or more of the above lists. In a national tourney, it's very likely that you'll encounter your target opponent. Sure, you'll get clobbered by TAC lists, but part of me would enjoy knocking a net-list out of the running.

9 Hydras for 675 points? Add in 8 Vendettas, a CCS, and two bare-bones Veteran squads, for just shy of 2,000 points.
If I had the money, I'd love being that person.

I have actually seen people try to do this and then hit a hard counter on the first match-up. Can be painful to watch as you traveled and payed for all the expenses of the trip to just get clobbered and out of the running on your first game. When I get to a GT I am the more nervous game 1 then I am for round 2-6. The only time I am more nervous then in game one is when I am in the finals if I made it there. Some tournaments offer awards for bracket winners. Some do not. Either way you have to judge how fun the above list you suggested would be. If you lose round one you might smash a few people but to be such a hard counter to certain armies doesn't make for a fun game. It makes for a one sided affair with both players rolling the dice waiting for it to end. This is in particular is why I never played grey knights in 5th edition. I believed they could sap the fun out of a game really fast.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I know Daemons are bad at keeping their attention on one thing at a time but this...I mean c'mon

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