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This weekend I will be playing my first game with my Ork army against an IG opponent. We will be playing a 1000 point game.

My opponent will likely take a Medusa, couple of Battle tanks and then two large squads of guardsmen. He will also probably have his Master of Ordnance.


I haven't put pen to paper yet on an army list but was thinking I would run a few Trukks loaded with Boyz and a Battlewagon with a Mek for the KFF. I would run these up the battlefield first turn and then if they survive move 6" then disembark my horde. I was also going to run a couple of Deffkoptas to try and take the Medusa out asap and some Stormboyz led by Zagstruk to deep strike and charge in.


Can anyone give me some pointers for Orks when facing off against IG? Would I be better off marching up the board in large numbers?

Template Weapons and Shooty Units are your firends when it comes to Orks vs. IG.

DeffKopta's a great idea for vehicle hunting. Make sure you pay the points for the TL Rokkit Launchas.

I'd seriously recommend Big Gunz with either Kannons or Lobbas so that you can drop the plates down on his squads.

I'm not a big fan of the Mek with the KFF myself. It'd run him with a SAG for the ord. template you'd get with him (not to mention for the off chance of rolling boxcars and wiping out whatever the pie plate touches! )

Lootas are always your friends with the DeffGuns! Roll a 5 or 6 for number of shots and watch an IG squad get obliterated!

tidus99 wrote:
This weekend I will be playing my first game with my Ork army against an IG opponent. We will be playing a 1000 point game.

My opponent will likely take a Medusa, couple of Battle tanks and then two large squads of guardsmen. He will also probably have his Master of Ordnance.


I haven't put pen to paper yet on an army list but was thinking I would run a few Trukks loaded with Boyz and a Battlewagon with a Mek for the KFF. I would run these up the battlefield first turn and then if they survive move 6" then disembark my horde. I was also going to run a couple of Deffkoptas to try and take the Medusa out asap and some Stormboyz led by Zagstruk to deep strike and charge in.

Your list isn't too bad IMO. The only thing I would change is the Mek w/KFF. It's just not near as good as it used to be. A Warboss would be better, but that's just how I play.

I would seriously consider some Lootas as well. A couple of 5 man squads would help. Just be sure you spread them out so blasts don't kill them all in one hit.

Maybe some Burnas in a BW as well, but that can be pricey.

Any unit that can reach him in CC will crump him good. He will outshoot you, but you can survive it (lasguns)and he will probably miss a lot (MoO and Medusa). Your first target really will be the tanks. To be honest, I think a Warboss and a couple of bikes (nob bikers?) with a PK or two to get up on his tanks ASAP will really screw him. If he has a Punisher with Pask... man, you will be screwed so kill it first.

I also agree with the Big Gunz... anything that gives you a better chance to hurt AV 14 at range at a better BS. I would also suggest a ADL, even naked, to give anything camping in the rear a cover save. I like Lootas, but a squad of 5 will run after 1 turn of fire. They really have to be 10 strong (so they can still go to ground). To be honest, I don't like Storm Boys because I don't like units that kill themselves before they even get into a fight. I think making them more boys will help you survive long enough to get your boys up to them. In the end, even if you run shootas, your going to be better at CC than he will be, so you will still want to charge him.

To be honest, the points spent on trukks might be better spent on more boys as well. The problem with trukks is they really limit your mob and blow up /waaaaay/ to easy. Even if it kills a boy or two in the explosion, you have to make a Ld check you don't want to be making. Then your probably better moving 6" and shooting than running, and your going to spend a turn or two getting shot at... you will have nothing left by the time the squad makes it to the IG. This is why Battlewagons are the craze... because they can hold 20-30 boys and give them AV 14 to get there. But if you only have one... green tide might be the way to go. The Deffkoptors are fine, as single or two man units so if they do get shot, moral will not be an issue.

Trukks are not the way to go. If you want to use the KFF you're going to have to be close together and with those few large blast temeplates your guard buddies got he's going to wreck a bunch of trukks per hit. Then start pounding on those 12 man units which lose combat effectivness really quick by just losing a few boyz.

Orks really excel at 1000 points if you just go green tide. Fit as many Boyz as you can and limit the toys. If you space out your mobs well you should take minimum loses while to close the distance. Use those power claws to rip open tanks. Remember you should be running every turn to get in grips with him and not stopping to shoot.

Outflank the deffkoptas. I dont care if you have first turn or not, outflank those things. They will most likely not do any damage to AV14 armor and probably not reach his artillery turn 1 even with Scout, even if they do he'll most likely have it behind an ADL with Camo upgrades for a 3+ cover.
By outflanking, especially if deploying short-ends (so theres a LONG board to cover), you can have them turn 2-3 be firing at the rear of most his vehicles which probably ignores the ADL too if positioning is in your favor. Cant charge, but deffkoptas shouldnt be charging anyway.

Never run a trukk list against IG. He will pop them without even trying and you will have half the army you would have had if you just hoofed it moving up the board. It takes longer but you have a better shot at 80-100 boyz spread out hoofing it than you do ~60-70 in trukkz getting the 24" movement before the trukk dies or 18" if its a wagon and then suffering explosion results. Not to mention bad luck on Ramshackle sending you the wrong way (i hate that...)

Personally i dont think you can have a "fun and friendly" game with IG as orks. They are one of the hardest armies ive faced (yet to play against a full CSM army, Sisters, or Eldar though its always allies). This is because their main weakness we lack, and their main strength is our weakness. Aside from Outflanking Deffkoptas or Kommandos via Snikrot, we have nothing that can get up there instantly and be a threat (Stormboyz always scatter off the table for me lol) unless you get lucky and get Personal Traits #3 which gives warboss and his unit Outflank (DAMN scary if its a biker force that got that)

As for the stormboyz killing themselves comment - technically thats pretty rare, you have to roll a 1 to lose 1 boy, and it only happens if you use the packs. They move up to 18" though, if theres anything they can hide behind/in in the middleish of the field they can be a problem to many people since they can just appear from nowhere. Deepstriking them is where i hate it. The potiential is awesome because its a deepstrike charge, but it means you must be roughly ~7-8 inches from your target when you try to deepstrike since you cant move afterwords. Thats why i said they always scatter off the table. Most deepstrikers dont want to get that close because the benefits arent as great, but Zagstruk NEEDS to so if you dont bullseye he probably effed up and went away. I had a game where he came in and mishapped 4 bloody times (starting turn 2) then finally rolled a 1 before the game ended. Ughh..

I ended up running the below 1000 list against an IG opponent and then a SM opponent. Both missions were objective based.

HQ
x1 Warboss (power klaw, eavy armour)

Troops
x30 shoota boyz
x30 shoota boyz
x10 shoota boyz
x20 shoota boyz (loaded in the battlewagon)

Fast Attack
x1 Deffkopta (rockets)
x1 Deffkopta (rockets)

Heavy Support
x1 Battlewagon (x4 big shootas, ramshackle)
x5 Lootas
x5 Lootas


IG Game Summary (5-4 to IG)
I scouted the Deffkoptas and hid them behind cover, blocking LoS. Battlewagon went up one flank so only the front armour would be exposed. My troops moved up.
Both Deffkoptas failed to hit and were then promptly destroyed giving a first blood point. Lootas were fairly effective taking out his troops. The Battlewagon was very effective at taking out a command squad and then ramming a Leman Russ, wrecking it.
My troops were torn to shreds. He had equipped his tanks with heavy bolters, stubbers, autocannons etc. When I was in range he then began issuing orders to his troop blobs so they could have a second volley. He was rolling 50 dice and I was picking up 15+ Orks. I did well with what made it into assault but my numbers were few and I couldn’t contest his objective.

SM Game Summary (6-4 to SM)
I did the same game plan as before as his model count was low. He had a land raider crusader with an assault squad, emperors champion and his HQ in terminator armour all inside. Dreadnaught, attack bike and tactical squad.
Deffkoptas tried to glance the land raider but missed their roll to hit again. Lootas were able to take out his attack bike and remove hull points from the dreadnaught. My shoota boyz had a lot of shots but only a handful were ever converted into wounds.
His assault squad ripped through my orks. Each of his ten guys had about 3 attacks on the charge and I failed my armour save as expected. The emperors champion challenged my warboss and managed to inflict exactly 3 wounds without a save!
Battlewagon was pretty good as a mobile shooting platform for my boyz. I managed to immobilise his land raider before the battle wagon was taken out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Both games were a little frustrating to play but I am still learning 6th. Any advice would be welcomed as I am likely to keep facing these opponents until I branch out into game nights.

Personally and this is just me, I wouldn't take that many Shoota boyz I can see why it looks good on paper but Orks like to get up close and smash things it is where they are strongest, so I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with all those shootas especially with ork shooting.

For 1000 points against IG I would take something like this,

HQ
Warboss: Eavy Armour, Cybork, Attack Squig, Shoota/Skorcha, PK

Elites
6x Lootas

Troops
Da Boss' Nobz;
2x Nobz, stikkbombs, eavy armour, cybork, kombi shoota/skorcha [sacrificial keep them at the front]
3x Nobz stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. kombi shoota/skorcha, big choppas
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK Waaagh Banner
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK
1x Painboy, Cybork Armour, grot orderly, dokz toolz

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

Heavy
Battlewagon, Deff rolla, 4xRokkit Launcher, RPJ, Grot Riggers


Now personally I would put the Warboss with the Nobz and use them as your powerhouse, put them in the battlewagon, move it 13" on the first move and the tank shock the second with your deff rolla its going to be nasty so if you can aim for one of his tanks even better.

Your boyz are going to suffer losses its what they are there for, if your IG players is anything like the guy i tend to play against he is just going to want to lay down plates on your boyz which is fine let him do that but keep running them until they can get in combat.

Your Lootas are pretty self explanatory just lay waste to his blobs. Save the kombis for thinning out numbers and if you can use the PKs to open up his tanks but remember as soon as you tie him up or your guys up in combat they his tanks become pretty useless except for maybe your lootas so make sure you start them in cover and leave them there.

Your Warboss is going to put out bulk damage at S10 AP2 and being in a squad with Nobz with a Waaagh Banner he is going to be weapon skill 6 which makes him much harder to hit plus FNP and a 5+ inv save he will be a monster.

Like I said I don't garuntee you will win with the list but you are playing to the orks strength get in and krump em, hope that helps let me know how it turns out.

P.S. Sorry if I broke any rules, 1st post.

 Thumpist wrote:
Personally and this is just me, I wouldn't take that many Shoota boyz I can see why it looks good on paper but Orks like to get up close and smash things it is where they are strongest, so I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with all those shootas especially with ork shooting.

For 1000 points against IG I would take something like this,

HQ
Warboss: Eavy Armour, Cybork, Attack Squig, Shoota/Skorcha, PK

Elites
6x Lootas

Troops
Da Boss' Nobz;
2x Nobz, stikkbombs, eavy armour, cybork, kombi shoota/skorcha [sacrificial keep them at the front]
3x Nobz stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. kombi shoota/skorcha, big choppas
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK Waaagh Banner
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

Heavy
Battlewagon, Deff rolla, 4xRokkit Launcher, RPJ, Grot Riggers


Now personally I would put the Warboss with the Nobz and use them as your powerhouse, put them in the battlewagon, move it 13" on the first move and the tank shock the second with your deff rolla its going to be nasty so if you can aim for one of his tanks even better.

Your boyz are going to suffer losses its what they are there for, if your IG players is anything like the guy i tend to play against he is just going to want to lay down plates on your boyz which is fine let him do that but keep running them until they can get in combat.

Your Lootas are pretty self explanatory just lay waste to his blobs. Save the kombis for thinning out numbers and if you can use the PKs to open up his tanks but remember as soon as you tie him up or your guys up in combat they his tanks become pretty useless except for maybe your lootas so make sure you start them in cover and leave them there.

Your Warboss is going to put out bulk damage at S10 AP2 and being in a squad with Nobz with a Waaagh Banner he is going to be weapon skill 6 which makes him much harder to hit plus FNP and a 5+ inv save he will be a monster.

Like I said I don't garuntee you will win with the list but you are playing to the orks strength get in and krump em, hope that helps let me know how it turns out.

P.S. Sorry if I broke any rules, 1st post.

I don't have my Codex with me, but I believe in order to get Cybork and FNP you need a painboy.

The single BW is likely to get poped in the first turn, I would drop it and use the points for more feet.

Thanks Thumpist. I have alot of models even though I have only just started playing Orks so I should be able to put that list together and give it a test in a couple of weeks.

I may try boyz with slugga/choppas as I was a little underwhelmed with the amount of wounds converted from 40 shots.

Also anything that can keep my Warboss alive for longer would be good. I cannot believe he got killed in his first combat!

tidus99 wrote:
Thanks Thumpist. I have alot of models even though I have only just started playing Orks so I should be able to put that list together and give it a test in a couple of weeks.

I may try boyz with slugga/choppas as I was a little underwhelmed with the amount of wounds converted from 40 shots.

Also anything that can keep my Warboss alive for longer would be good. I cannot believe he got killed in his first combat!

Slugga/Choppa vs Shoota boyz is debatable, either of them work, but I've always preferred shootas. Charging with Shoota boyz still gets you 3 attacks on the charge, which is plenty for me -- even with them shooting like Vogons in Hitchhikers guide....

The issue with the Warboss is the PK having to swing last. It's easy to challenge him and essentially take him out of the fight. I've found that sticking him in a unit of 20-30 boyz to be the best as it nets you some potentially life saving re-rolls. Mega Armor is also a must IMO.

Thumpist, how would the list you built work against Terminators and a LR? One thing you have to be careful of is making a list that is focused against one foe when giving advice. Also, Big Choppas suck as they take up two hands... if your not ignoring AP, you need as many attacks as possible to force a failed armor save. PK or nothing.

Tidus...
What happened is you ran enough boys, but you didn't give them enough equipment. You went to light in the toys IMO. Your warboss got sucked out with a Challenge because he was to close to the front of the mob. You can only accept or issue challenges if your within 2" of a fig in base-to-base with a enemy fig. You want your Characters roughly 3-4" from the front. This is because if they are within pile-in range they can pile in on their Init (1 with a PK) and still be involved in combat. If you can not maintain the discipline to do this (or run out of boys), this is where having Nobs (with PK or CCW+Pistol) in your mobs can suck up the challenge and let your boss do his damage. You need those Nobs, one way or another. Bosspoles and the like are still needed IMO as well. There is no reason whatsoever you shouldn't have Cybork on your Warboss for the 5++.... it is to cheap not to do it. I think you have seen how good Deffkoptors are... not very. I will offer a substitution at Str 8 at BS 3 with some big gunz.

Warboss - 115pts (in Battlewagon Mob)
PK, Eavy Armor, Cybork, Attack Squig

20 shoota boyz - 175pts
Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armor, 2x Bigshootas

20 shoota boyz - 175pts
Nob, PK, Bosspole, Eavy Armor, 2x Bigshootas

19 slugga boyz - 159pts (In Battlewagon)
Nob, PK, Bosspole, Big Shoota

2x Big Gunz - 46pts
Kannons, 2x ammo runts

Battlewagon - 130pts
Deff Rolla, 4x Big shootas

5x Lootas - 75pts

5x Lootas - 75pts

ADL - 50pts

1000pts

As you can see, your losing some boys and the koptas, but I think your getting more bang for your buck. I like Mega Blasters and they are free upgrades. I would consider putting 1 in each loota squad just incase you face DSing terminators or something else nasty that needs it. I think the Deff Rolla is a must upgrade as it is multiple Str 10 attacks against whatever you ram/drive through. I will also note that if you ditch the Eavy armor on the two nobz in the 20 man squads and the ADL you can increase the squad size to 25 each. I just wanted to make sure you had a ADL to protect your Kannons and Lootas. If you don't want it, it is up to you...you didn't mention if your Lootas got a lot of fire or not and if just normal cover was enough.

wazzdakka/biek armies also do really well in 750-1500 point games, 4+ cover and 4+ armor, use cover to block some like of sites. against ig you have zag right in that he can stick in when he arrives and reallyjust obliterate some guard. disorganised charge into his medusa so zag rips it apart would be beneficial to

"I don't have my Codex with me, but I believe in order to get Cybork and FNP you need a painboy.

The single BW is likely to get poped in the first turn, I would drop it and use the points for more feet"

yup you are right with this list there should be a PB with the nobz i factored the points but forgot to write it
BW could get popped 1st round but you can always go flat out and get the nobz across the board more feet is good too but there going to go down quicker than a BW


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlkTom wrote:
Thumpist, how would the list you built work against Terminators and a LR? One thing you have to be careful of is making a list that is focused against one foe when giving advice. Also, Big Choppas suck as they take up two hands... if your not ignoring AP, you need as many attacks as possible to force a failed armor save. PK or nothing.

BlkTom, it tends to work really well against Terminators and space marines in general, the nob squad I listed is a constant in my lists "Thumpys Nob Squad' as it has been nicknamed in our gaming group.
Recently had a 2k match against space wolves and took 2 of these squads and decimated both HQ's and his wolf guard squads by the end of turn two with ease I find it to be a very effective squad all and all,
As for the big choppas on a charge with a BC a Nobz is strength 7 because of furious charge, so most things wound on a 2 which is nice but the reason I tend to take them is they are a lot cheaper and they tend to put out a lot of wounds, in my experience.

I just recently added Mega Armor to my Warboss' who tend to go in the nob squads as well, and it can be pretty handy but I personally don't think its a must good in higher point games for sure.

 Thumpist wrote:
Personally and this is just me, I wouldn't take that many Shoota boyz I can see why it looks good on paper but Orks like to get up close and smash things it is where they are strongest, so I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with all those shootas especially with ork shooting.

For 1000 points against IG I would take something like this,

HQ
Warboss: Eavy Armour, Cybork, Attack Squig, Shoota/Skorcha, PK

Elites
6x Lootas

Troops
Da Boss' Nobz;
2x Nobz, stikkbombs, eavy armour, cybork, kombi shoota/skorcha [sacrificial keep them at the front]
3x Nobz stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. kombi shoota/skorcha, big choppas
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK Waaagh Banner
1x Nob, stikkbombs eavy armour, cybork. slugga, PK
1x Painboy, Cybork Armour, grot orderly, dokz toolz

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

20xboyz slugga/choppas [2] big shootaz

Heavy
Battlewagon, Deff rolla, 4xRokkit Launcher, RPJ, Grot Riggers


Now personally I would put the Warboss with the Nobz and use them as your powerhouse, put them in the battlewagon, move it 13" on the first move and the tank shock the second with your deff rolla its going to be nasty so if you can aim for one of his tanks even better.

Your boyz are going to suffer losses its what they are there for, if your IG players is anything like the guy i tend to play against he is just going to want to lay down plates on your boyz which is fine let him do that but keep running them until they can get in combat.

Your Lootas are pretty self explanatory just lay waste to his blobs. Save the kombis for thinning out numbers and if you can use the PKs to open up his tanks but remember as soon as you tie him up or your guys up in combat they his tanks become pretty useless except for maybe your lootas so make sure you start them in cover and leave them there.

Your Warboss is going to put out bulk damage at S10 AP2 and being in a squad with Nobz with a Waaagh Banner he is going to be weapon skill 6 which makes him much harder to hit plus FNP and a 5+ inv save he will be a monster.

Like I said I don't garuntee you will win with the list but you are playing to the orks strength get in and krump em, hope that helps let me know how it turns out.

P.S. Sorry if I broke any rules, 1st post.

This is Close to my 1500 pts list and it works very well for me. I have SAG with my lootas and as long as you dont roll snake eyes and the scatter roll is minimal it works wonders. Not to mention the look on your opponents face when you roll boxcars with no scatter
Even if I loose running up the board and smashing my opponents troops with my choppas and PKs are always fun.
6th eddition leans to the shoota boyz due to over watch. My advice is to have both and put the sluggas in something to move them faster.

Taking one battlewagon in a list is just bad...

tidus99 wrote:


SM Game Summary (6-4 to SM)
I did the same game plan as before as his model count was low. He had a land raider crusader with an assault squad, emperors champion and his HQ in terminator armour all inside. Dreadnaught, attack bike and tactical squad.
Deffkoptas tried to glance the land raider but missed their roll to hit again. Lootas were able to take out his attack bike and remove hull points from the dreadnaught. My shoota boyz had a lot of shots but only a handful were ever converted into wounds.
His assault squad ripped through my orks. Each of his ten guys had about 3 attacks on the charge and I failed my armour save as expected. The emperors champion challenged my warboss and managed to inflict exactly 3 wounds without a save!
Battlewagon was pretty good as a mobile shooting platform for my boyz. I managed to immobilise his land raider before the battle wagon was taken out.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Was he running Black Templars, or some other chapter for this game because just mentally figuring things out, this seems a bit steep for just 1000 points of Marines. I'd have to check my codexes when I get home for exact point count.

Either way, I agree with the assessments so far. You probably should've run a little less Boyz and gave them something shiney to play with, such as Nobz with PKs. You'd be surprised at how effective they are against Dreads!

 DieselJester wrote:

tidus99 wrote:


SM Game Summary (6-4 to SM)
I did the same game plan as before as his model count was low. He had a land raider crusader with an assault squad, emperors champion and his HQ in terminator armour all inside. Dreadnaught, attack bike and tactical squad.
Deffkoptas tried to glance the land raider but missed their roll to hit again. Lootas were able to take out his attack bike and remove hull points from the dreadnaught. My shoota boyz had a lot of shots but only a handful were ever converted into wounds.
His assault squad ripped through my orks. Each of his ten guys had about 3 attacks on the charge and I failed my armour save as expected. The emperors champion challenged my warboss and managed to inflict exactly 3 wounds without a save!
Battlewagon was pretty good as a mobile shooting platform for my boyz. I managed to immobilise his land raider before the battle wagon was taken out.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Was he running Black Templars, or some other chapter for this game because just mentally figuring things out, this seems a bit steep for just 1000 points of Marines. I'd have to check my codexes when I get home for exact point count.

Either way, I agree with the assessments so far. You probably should've run a little less Boyz and gave them something shiney to play with, such as Nobz with PKs. You'd be surprised at how effective they are against Dreads!

Sorry forgot to mention that. Yes he was running a Black Templars army.

Thanks for all the list ideas and feedback! I will try running a few of the mentioned lists and hope I smash some face with my Orks

tidus99 wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:

tidus99 wrote:


SM Game Summary (6-4 to SM)
I did the same game plan as before as his model count was low. He had a land raider crusader with an assault squad, emperors champion and his HQ in terminator armour all inside. Dreadnaught, attack bike and tactical squad.
Deffkoptas tried to glance the land raider but missed their roll to hit again. Lootas were able to take out his attack bike and remove hull points from the dreadnaught. My shoota boyz had a lot of shots but only a handful were ever converted into wounds.
His assault squad ripped through my orks. Each of his ten guys had about 3 attacks on the charge and I failed my armour save as expected. The emperors champion challenged my warboss and managed to inflict exactly 3 wounds without a save!
Battlewagon was pretty good as a mobile shooting platform for my boyz. I managed to immobilise his land raider before the battle wagon was taken out.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Was he running Black Templars, or some other chapter for this game because just mentally figuring things out, this seems a bit steep for just 1000 points of Marines. I'd have to check my codexes when I get home for exact point count.

Either way, I agree with the assessments so far. You probably should've run a little less Boyz and gave them something shiney to play with, such as Nobz with PKs. You'd be surprised at how effective they are against Dreads!

Sorry forgot to mention that. Yes he was running a Black Templars army.

Thanks for all the list ideas and feedback! I will try running a few of the mentioned lists and hope I smash some face with my Orks

Ok, that makes more sense now since the Templars have a slightly different point cost than your average SM. Not knowing his exact squad size for each of his units I did a rough numbers crunch and came out to slighly over 1000 points. As a BT player as well as an Ork player, I might be able to give you some tips here:

1: Vs a Land Raider Crusader. The Land Raider is Awesome, no doubt about that. However, it comes at a VERY high points cost. The Crusader version is great against mob armies such as Orks or IG since it has a TL Assault cannon and 2 hurricane bolters. Problem with this is that he's going to have to close the distance in order to use these. Use that to your advantage. AV 14 all around means that you're going to have some trouble just glancing that, but you do have the ability to do so in the form of:
A: Rokkits. STR 8, AP 3
B: KMB: STR 8, AP 2
C: SAG: STR 2D6, AP 2
D: Zzap Guns: STR 2d6, AP2
E: Boomguns: STR 8, AP 3
F: Kannons (Shell): STR 8, AP 3

and of course; Warboss (in whatever form) and/or MANZ with PKs

If he's using the Crusader and he's parking his termies in there, I'd expect him to get into the fray to use the assault cannon and the bolters to his advantage so that he can unload his termies and assault since the LR has a front assault ramp. You can probably range him with the Boomguns (on a Battlewagon) or the Kannons (from a Battlewagon or Big Gunz). Or, at the very least, give him pause about closing the distance with you.

2. Vs Dreadnaughts: Thankfully, these guys have 12s and 10s for AV. Assault him with a Boy Mob that's led by a Nob with a PK. Dreads can't challenge and even if they could, your Nob can take him. Let the Boyz soak up the wounds and then open him up like a can of tuna with your PK. "mmmm... Humies.... Tastes like chikin!"

3. Vs Terminators: Your best bet here is to take them on with MANZ (MegaNobz). MANZ is pretty much the Orky equivilent of SM Terminators. Have fun with the wuss slapping contest in the center of the field since having a 2+ save on both Termies and MANZ means that y'all will be trading more blows than a couple of rock'em sock'em robots!

4: Vs The Emperor's Champion: The BT EC is Leet in CC. So don't let him get into CC with you. Unfortunately for the BT player nowadays is that the Black Sword is no more better than a Big Choppa. So your best bet here is to mow him down at range with Shootas, Deffguns, or whatever else you have wit lots o dakka! If he's with a Sword Brethren Assault Squad, try and pick him off with ranged attacks before your MANZ get into it with him.

NOTE: The Black Templar EC HAS to challenge. Period. It's in our Codex. So watch out for that. If your warboss (or Nob leading a mob) is with a mob attacking him, he will be called out. Avoid this if possible and just bury him under a nice green tide of boyz!

Hope this helps a bit.

Damn, if only I'd seen this thread earlier. I had one of my first games as Orks vs Imperial Guard just the other day. The result was that I obliterated him, losing a mob of boyz, a kopta and the warboss to his 'everything but creed and the conscripts', however he managed a last turn draw by killing my Warboss - the boss was only exposed to fire for gaks and giggles and because I didn't know the rules about +1 VP for killing the Warlord, but I'm not too fussed.

I ran;
>two 30 strong mobs of shoota boyz
>Big Mek w/ KFF and PK Warboss in a rolla Battlewagon
>Three kans with various kit
>like six deff koptas
>10 lootas

He ran
>Yarrick
>Creed
>40 conscripts
>two veteran squads of some sort, one with a transport
>two heavy weapon units of some variety
>a tank that fired 20 heavy bolter shots per round
>Marbo

What worked
>Deff koptas with rokkits in small squads of one or two can sniper out the side armour of tanks
>boyz are fantastic value for money
>Battlewagon squashed the gak out of his tank
>Lootas are devastating

What didn't work
>You don't need more than a couple koptas at most
>Big Mek KFF is overrated, it didn't save nearly enough boyz to be worth the price
>The BS 3 of the kans is overrated
>PK Nobz are a huge waste of time and points

So I'd say run lots of boyz with a bit of anti tank dakka and any wagons you can dig up, and you'll send the IG running scared.

I will point out Dakkamite that the IG list you played against was a very poor list with around 300pts alone in the HQs and 500+pts in 3 tanks and apparently nothing in between.

Against Guard... yeah, PKs are pointless because they have no armor. But any good marine player will have Terminators, and 200-400pts in Terminators would do a lot of damage.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Damn, if only I'd seen this thread earlier. I had one of my first games as Orks vs Imperial Guard just the other day. The result was that I obliterated him, losing a mob of boyz, a kopta and the warboss to his 'everything but creed and the conscripts', however he managed a last turn draw by killing my Warboss - the boss was only exposed to fire for gaks and giggles and because I didn't know the rules about +1 VP for killing the Warlord, but I'm not too fussed.

I ran;
>two 30 strong mobs of shoota boyz
>Big Mek w/ KFF and PK Warboss in a rolla Battlewagon
>Three kans with various kit
>like six deff koptas
>10 lootas

He ran
>Yarrick
>Creed
>40 conscripts
>two veteran squads of some sort, one with a transport
>two heavy weapon units of some variety
>a tank that fired 20 heavy bolter shots per round
>Marbo

What worked
>Deff koptas with rokkits in small squads of one or two can sniper out the side armour of tanks
>boyz are fantastic value for money
>Battlewagon squashed the gak out of his tank
>Lootas are devastating

What didn't work
>You don't need more than a couple koptas at most
>Big Mek KFF is overrated, it didn't save nearly enough boyz to be worth the price
>The BS 3 of the kans is overrated
>PK Nobz are a huge waste of time and points

So I'd say run lots of boyz with a bit of anti tank dakka and any wagons you can dig up, and you'll send the IG running scared.

A couple of observations from your list:

1. Kan Walls are pointless now, as you've discovered. I'd recommend against using them in favor of Big Gunz (easy to scrap build).
2. You've already noticed the flaws in the KFF. Try the SAG next time!
3: Keep all the Koptas! If need be, run three with the Rokkits for Vehicle Hunting and three with the BS for mowing down infantry.
4: Nobz are good, just don't load out all of them with PKs. one or two outghta work.

 DieselJester wrote:

tidus99 wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:

tidus99 wrote:


SM Game Summary (6-4 to SM)
I did the same game plan as before as his model count was low. He had a land raider crusader with an assault squad, emperors champion and his HQ in terminator armour all inside. Dreadnaught, attack bike and tactical squad.
Deffkoptas tried to glance the land raider but missed their roll to hit again. Lootas were able to take out his attack bike and remove hull points from the dreadnaught. My shoota boyz had a lot of shots but only a handful were ever converted into wounds.
His assault squad ripped through my orks. Each of his ten guys had about 3 attacks on the charge and I failed my armour save as expected. The emperors champion challenged my warboss and managed to inflict exactly 3 wounds without a save!
Battlewagon was pretty good as a mobile shooting platform for my boyz. I managed to immobilise his land raider before the battle wagon was taken out.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Was he running Black Templars, or some other chapter for this game because just mentally figuring things out, this seems a bit steep for just 1000 points of Marines. I'd have to check my codexes when I get home for exact point count.

Either way, I agree with the assessments so far. You probably should've run a little less Boyz and gave them something shiney to play with, such as Nobz with PKs. You'd be surprised at how effective they are against Dreads!

Sorry forgot to mention that. Yes he was running a Black Templars army.

Thanks for all the list ideas and feedback! I will try running a few of the mentioned lists and hope I smash some face with my Orks

Ok, that makes more sense now since the Templars have a slightly different point cost than your average SM. Not knowing his exact squad size for each of his units I did a rough numbers crunch and came out to slighly over 1000 points. As a BT player as well as an Ork player, I might be able to give you some tips here:

1: Vs a Land Raider Crusader. The Land Raider is Awesome, no doubt about that. However, it comes at a VERY high points cost. The Crusader version is great against mob armies such as Orks or IG since it has a TL Assault cannon and 2 hurricane bolters. Problem with this is that he's going to have to close the distance in order to use these. Use that to your advantage. AV 14 all around means that you're going to have some trouble just glancing that, but you do have the ability to do so in the form of:
A: Rokkits. STR 8, AP 3
B: KMB: STR 8, AP 2
C: SAG: STR 2D6, AP 2
D: Zzap Guns: STR 2d6, AP2
E: Boomguns: STR 8, AP 3
F: Kannons (Shell): STR 8, AP 3

and of course; Warboss (in whatever form) and/or MANZ with PKs

If he's using the Crusader and he's parking his termies in there, I'd expect him to get into the fray to use the assault cannon and the bolters to his advantage so that he can unload his termies and assault since the LR has a front assault ramp. You can probably range him with the Boomguns (on a Battlewagon) or the Kannons (from a Battlewagon or Big Gunz). Or, at the very least, give him pause about closing the distance with you.

2. Vs Dreadnaughts: Thankfully, these guys have 12s and 10s for AV. Assault him with a Boy Mob that's led by a Nob with a PK. Dreads can't challenge and even if they could, your Nob can take him. Let the Boyz soak up the wounds and then open him up like a can of tuna with your PK. "mmmm... Humies.... Tastes like chikin!"

3. Vs Terminators: Your best bet here is to take them on with MANZ (MegaNobz). MANZ is pretty much the Orky equivilent of SM Terminators. Have fun with the wuss slapping contest in the center of the field since having a 2+ save on both Termies and MANZ means that y'all will be trading more blows than a couple of rock'em sock'em robots!

4: Vs The Emperor's Champion: The BT EC is Leet in CC. So don't let him get into CC with you. Unfortunately for the BT player nowadays is that the Black Sword is no more better than a Big Choppa. So your best bet here is to mow him down at range with Shootas, Deffguns, or whatever else you have wit lots o dakka! If he's with a Sword Brethren Assault Squad, try and pick him off with ranged attacks before your MANZ get into it with him.

NOTE: The Black Templar EC HAS to challenge. Period. It's in our Codex. So watch out for that. If your warboss (or Nob leading a mob) is with a mob attacking him, he will be called out. Avoid this if possible and just bury him under a nice green tide of boyz!

Hope this helps a bit.

I wouldn't run MegaNobz against Termies because against PF or TH they don't get their 2+ save. I run them against normal marines and vehicles. Send Boyz after Termies and they only lose out on their rocking 6+. Quanity over quality.

 PipeAlley wrote:


I wouldn't run MegaNobz against Termies because against PF or TH they don't get their 2+ save. I run them against normal marines and vehicles. Send Boyz after Termies and they only lose out on their rocking 6+. Quanity over quality.

Yeah, that does work in a straight, good old fashioned clense mission. But with an Objective holding mission my idea would be just to tie them up with a non-scoring unit.

Thinking more on this idea now of them losing the 2+ save, too bad you can't run a painboy with them to give them cybork. Mad Dok anyone?