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I guess Chimeras are considered an okay compromise for Vendettas before you win the lottery?
(For fast protective transport not necessarily 3 twin linked lascannon firepower!)

Sounds like a nice little mech list Blaggard suggested I might even try it. I prefer blobs though, but I do want chimeras. I might have to think of something else. Course this is thinking long into the future!

Considering the amount of AP5 out there I'd have always thought a mechvet army in carapace armour would be considered a decent choice. Like surely vs any shooty army but Orks, you'll get mown down in droves with 5+ armour, but 4+ you'll have a save. Even Tyranid's common gaunt weapons are AP5 aren't they? Am I missing something from this equation?

text removed.
Reds8n

Best we leave this particular tangent well alone I think people.

Thank you.

foxyfennec wrote:
I guess Chimeras are considered an okay compromise for Vendettas before you win the lottery?
(For fast protective transport not necessarily 3 twin linked lascannon firepower!)

Sounds like a nice little mech list Blaggard suggested I might even try it. I prefer blobs though, but I do want chimeras. I might have to think of something else. Course this is thinking long into the future!

Considering the amount of AP5 out there I'd have always thought a mechvet army in carapace armour would be considered a decent choice. Like surely vs any shooty army but Orks, you'll get mown down in droves with 5+ armour, but 4+ you'll have a save. Even Tyranid's common gaunt weapons are AP5 aren't they? Am I missing something from this equation?

Decent, but not quite worth the points for what you are gonna gain. 30 extra points for a 4+ save isn't too hot, it could save you but at the same time it's not too effective. A 4+ is still easily shot past and easily negated, and having tried that set-up (mechvets w/ Carapace) I found I was still losing a lot of men to any sort of dedicated shooting attack. I found it's much better just to get more men, it's cruel but that's the Guard.

The guard is the only army I know of where it's cheaper to throw more men at the problem then to keep your current men alive.

I dunno. I just added them to my two PCS units based on the above posts. The PCSs fly around in vendettas until it's time to grab an objective then hop out and flame away. About half the armies in my club run troops that have 4+ saves so a heavy flamer would be the bomb for me.

How about vox casters? I never see anyone take them so I'm guessing they aren't worth the points - but re-rolling failed orders sounds really really good...

And how about regimental standards in CCS? Again it's some points but re-rolling morale and pinning would obviously be very helpful. Again not seeing it used much.

Vox are good, but you'd better have heavy weapons in squads to really use the vox's re-roll- HWSs cannot have Vox, but they would adventage the msot of it.

Standard's always good for a 'free' morale re-roll bubble, but if you do mech forget it, as the standard don't work from inside a vehicle.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Standard's always good for a 'free' morale re-roll bubble, but if you do mech forget it, as the standard don't work from inside a vehicle.

Why won't it work inside a chimera?

It's a standard, can't be seen throught a chimera's armoured hull, no?

Dark Angels can use a standard in a LR. Just sayin'.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
It's a standard, can't be seen throught a chimera's armoured hull, no?

It works in the rules, in fact it works from the edge of the hull. I suppose they just stick it out of the hatch.

 Trickstick wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
It's a standard, can't be seen throught a chimera's armoured hull, no?

It works in the rules, in fact it works from the edge of the hull. I suppose they just stick it out of the hatch.

Intresting....having a CCs in a chimera on my gunline is not that much of a waste of a chimera then....

You'll want to mind target saturation issues, though. A single chimera in a foot list won't last long. And then your CCS takes damage from explosion results (nevermind what other units are in the radius). Life just gets generally unpleasant.

Oh yeah, roger that. I've had chimeras explode, kill everyone inside and a handful standing next to it. But I've also had my CCS get wiped by bolter fire. It's a conundrum for me, anyway. My current list is a foot list with the exception of the required 3 vendettas. Basically a bunch of PIS with a HWT and a plasma gun built in (based on posts above). I was tinkering with the idea of vox casters and a standard for the CCS which means that unit may become a bit of high priority target (more so than usual) and probably easy to get to since they need to be within 12" of the PIS to be effective. I've also dropped my ADL, which kills me since I did an incredible job painting mine, because I felt like I was using it like a security blanket. I know it kind of is but it also made me feel like I should stay behind it no matter what because it's there instead of trying to move into a better position or trying to get to objectives in case the PCSs riding in the vendettas fail. In my current 1K list I only have that one chimera which I know is just asking for it. If I were to drop it and the HWT-LC in the CCS I could add another PIS. Not sure if that would make them any less a target. That would give me 5 PIS and a CCS on the ground.

If you want your CCS to survive, I feel the best option is Camo Cloaks and sit them in cover or behind a ADL. That makes them more survivable than in a Chimera IMO. Also, if they are in a Chimera, they can't give themselves Orders... and I like to give my CCS a LC, so sometimes I /want/ to give it Orders, like 'Fire on my Target!' to get around something with a cover save that needs to be hit by a BS 4 LC.

 BlkTom wrote:
Then he is answering his own question... you don't get flamers to ignore armor, you get them to force your opponent to fail armor checks because your making sure your hitting. Even terminators can roll 1s.\

This may be about the most sensible thing that has ever been said on this website.

 BlkTom wrote:
If you want your CCS to survive, I feel the best option is Camo Cloaks and sit them in cover or behind a ADL. That makes them more survivable than in a Chimera IMO. Also, if they are in a Chimera, they can't give themselves Orders... and I like to give my CCS a LC, so sometimes I /want/ to give it Orders, like 'Fire on my Target!' to get around something with a cover save that needs to be hit by a BS 4 LC.

Yeah, they would be more survivable behind an ADL - that's for sure. The problem I'm finding is that it's safer for PIS's to be spread out. It's a good defense against helldrakes and even from being assaulted. Ok, so one unit get's killed through assault but if it takes them 2 turns to get into assault range of the next nearest unit then good for me. Meanwhile that unit will get autocannons to the face. The ADL sort of forces me to bunch stuff up making flamers and assaulty units more effective.

If I dropped the chimera and HWT from the CCS I could probably afford a second naked CCS that might be the answer. Have to think on that one.

Chimeras are mobile command vehicles so you can give orders from them. You just can't give orders to another unit that's in one (not including the CCS that is giving the order).

 necron99 wrote:
You just can't give orders to another unit that's in one (not including the CCS that is giving the order).

I may be misreading you, but are you suggesting that a CCS can give itself orders whilst mounted? This is not the case.

hhhmmmm...my mistake then. I assumed it could since it was a command vehicle and logistically you would think since the company commander is standing right behind the HWT they'd be within ear shot.

 necron99 wrote:
hhhmmmm...my mistake then. I assumed it could since it was a command vehicle and logistically you would think since the company commander is standing right behind the HWT they'd be within ear shot.

Agreed. You would think since an officer can issue orders from a Chimera (using the Mobile Command Vehicle rule), other squads can receive orders when in a Chimera.

Oh well

FrozenMarine wrote:

 BlkTom wrote:
Then he is answering his own question... you don't get flamers to ignore armor, you get them to force your opponent to fail armor checks because your making sure your hitting. Even terminators can roll 1s.\

This may be about the most sensible thing that has ever been said on this website.

Really? Because I'd say the Baleflamer disagrees with you. As does any Ork player who gives his biker squad Cybork to protect them from Heavy Flamers. If a weapon ignores cover, its AP value is actually more important than normal, since it's harder to mitigate the effects of ignoring an armor save. Marine players pay a significant number of additional points to make their Bikers T5 and give them a jink save. Ask them how they feel about Heldrakes.

You may have described how "standard" flamers work, but that's because they're only AP5. You might as well be talking about bolters or splinter cannons. But the old Flamers of Tzneetch were not, and it was a big reason behind why they were so popular. The new flamers are S4 AP4 -- wounding just as often against T4 targets. Sure, they got nerfed in a few other ways (Fearless -> Demonic Stability and loss of Eternal Warrior). But the big thing is that they don't get to ignore marine and terminator army anymore.

Canine Gallows wrote:

What would you guys advise? I'm walking into this completely blind since I've never tried IG but I've wanted to forever since they seem really fun to play.

Welcome!

I'll give you the same advice I give any new player to 40k.

1. Get the codex and rule book.
2. Read them. Look up every special rule you see. You don't have to memorize them, but be familiar with the more common rules.
3. Read some tactica and army lists.
4. Make a 1500 point list! Don't copy anyone, but use things that you think:
4a. Would be fun to model.
4b. Would be fun to paint.
4c. Would be fun to play with.
5. Post the list here and get feedback.
6. Revise your list and post and get feedback.
7. Start building to your list!

IG have a wide variety of units from tanks to fliers to huge blob squads. Fine the type you'd enjoy most and have fun!

I think the original poster is on the right track.

The 5-cadian box is good to start:
* You can try out a paint scheme and get used to how you will paint additional troopers.
* Having extra lasgun men lets you use up special weapons on kits you get later, and swap them out with regular guys if you want different configurations.

From there I would get the IG Battleforce starting kit which has tons of bits:
* 25x infantry bodies (heads, legs, torsos, arms, lasguns).
* Heads/bodies for Company Commander or Platoon Commander, 4x Sergeants
** 5x Flamers, 5x Grenade Launcher, tons of lasguns
** 5x Laspistol, 1x Bolt pistol, 1x Plasma Pistol
** 1x Regimental Standard, 1x Platoon Standard
** 1x Heavy Flamer, 1x Sniper, 1x Melta, 1x Plasma gun
** 1x Power Fist, 1x Power Sword, 5x Chainsword
* 1x Sentinel Kit (2 armored options, scout cage, Flamer, Plasma gun, Lascannon, Missile Launcher, Autocannon)
* 3x Heavy Weapon Teams
** 3x Missile Launcher, 3x Lascannon, 3x Autocannon, 3x Mortar, 3x Heavy Bolter
* 5 Extra bases even after you build everything.

If you have limited time, like it sounds you do, you'll have lots and lots of time to think as you slowly put this stuff together and dream up your army.

 BlkTom wrote:
If you want your CCS to survive, I feel the best option is Camo Cloaks and sit them in cover or behind a ADL. That makes them more survivable than in a Chimera IMO. Also, if they are in a Chimera, they can't give themselves Orders... and I like to give my CCS a LC, so sometimes I /want/ to give it Orders, like 'Fire on my Target!' to get around something with a cover save that needs to be hit by a BS 4 LC.

Camo Cloaks behind an ADL doesn't make you more survivable than in a Chimera behind an ADL.

The best way to ensure your CCS survives into lategame is a Chimera with Camo Netting behind an ADL. It's how I do it, and every guard player in my store is switching over to it. AV12 with a 3+ coversave is nothing to scoff at.

To the OP:

I would suggest you write up a couple lists.

I'd write up a 1000pt, 1500pt, 1850pt, and 2000pt list, and post them on Dakka (as well as send them to me if you desire a more personal critique). Once you have some feedback, make the necessary adjustments, and buy the units that fit into your list.

Buying an armylist at a time, though its a big purchase at once, saves money in the long run. You never end up with models you aren't using. Not to mention, its easier to convince yourself to paint something when it has a place in your army, rather than a place on your shelf.

A couple things to avoid:
-Grenade Launchers
-Flamers (except in a Platoon Command Squad)
-Commissars
-Doctrines (Except demolitions on a squad or two for a demo charge)
-Missile Launchers, Mortars, Heavy Bolters
-Armored Sentinels (Scout sentinels aren't horrible, just really bad)
-Rough Riders
-Techpriests

A couple things that are great:
-Lascannons (In infantry blobs, lascannons are king)
-Plasmaguns (In infantry blobs and veterans)
-Regimental standards (for foot lists)
-Aegis Defense Lines (for foot lists)
-Vendettas (Everyone gets mad when people suggest them, but they really are one of the best units in the codex)
-Forgeworld Units
-Space Wolf Allies

Cheers!
-TheCaptain

"Suggest" being the important word there

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
"Suggest" being the important word there

Wha?

I meant the things to avoid/are great are not set in stone and are what you suggest, not rules one must follow.

The previous paragraphs are a good tip, working on your army from a list you made so that you don't end up with tons of minis you never end up using, or are not fitting your style.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I meant the things to avoid/are great are not set in stone and are what you suggest, not rules one must follow.

The previous paragraphs are a good tip, working on your army from a list you made so that you don't end up with tons of minis you never end up using, or are not fitting your style.

While true, I would agree that most of what he said to avoid might as well be rules for the IG. Any self-respecting IG player knows majority of what he said is terrible (I have gotten Missile Launchers and Sentinels to work before, I wouldn't do it often but I have gotten them working) and on the avoid list. What he said is great, is what can be argued (although I agree with pretty much all of it)

 washout77 wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I meant the things to avoid/are great are not set in stone and are what you suggest, not rules one must follow.

The previous paragraphs are a good tip, working on your army from a list you made so that you don't end up with tons of minis you never end up using, or are not fitting your style.

While true, I would agree that most of what he said to avoid might as well be rules for the IG. Any self-respecting IG player knows majority of what he said is terrible (I have gotten Missile Launchers and Sentinels to work before, I wouldn't do it often but I have gotten them working) and on the avoid list. What he said is great, is what can be argued (although I agree with pretty much all of it)

Ehh, I don't think anyone can disagree that what I said is great is, in fact, great. It's just a matter of "do you like it enough to buy/use it"?