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Title is topic :(

for 230 points, Why can't we customize them? :(

Base point value comparing to a SM LR I was told by a friend (Rather-point & laugh) they cost a grotesque amount in comparison =/

Is there any reason we can think why for a base cost of 230 points these things are, the way they are?

I would love to be able to throw some extra guns that aren't an additional Combi-Bolter and Havoc Launcher >.> lol

Fluff reason: No technological innovations take place in the eye of terror and CSM do not raid for technology.
Gods forbid that we have close to the same options as the loyalists.

Landraiders don't really work too well as gunboats IMO. Try using them as a delivery system for a nasty melee unit. Kharn and friends, CC Termies with Abaddon or Typhus, maybe some CC chosen if you feel like it (not a fan of this one, but YMMV). If you want firepower, take a las predator for almost 100 points cheaper.

Compare CSM terminators with the latest and greatest from the Imperium, Deathwing 'Knights', Deathwing not strong/niche enough? We got you covered!

Because (not) Imperium. That's why.

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
Fluff reason: No technological innovations take place in the eye of terror and CSM do not raid for technology.
Gods forbid that we have close to the same options as the loyalists.

This is simply not correct. The Dark Mechanicus is far more innovative than the Mechanicus due to not being held down by millenia of dogma.

The reason you don't see it reflected in the Chaos Marine books is GW suck at writing Chaos Marine books.

If you look in the codec csm is described as using the same equipment that they did during HH. I know from the BL books that the dark Mechanicum is suppose to delve into forbidden tech, but in the codec we had millinia behind.

HH technology is usually better then the 'recent' 40K technology.

And the Dark Mechanicus makes all your fancy Daemon Engines.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Title is topic :(

for 230 points, Why can't we customize them? :(

Base point value comparing to a SM LR I was told by a friend (Rather-point & laugh) they cost a grotesque amount in comparison =/

Is there any reason we can think why for a base cost of 230 points these things are, the way they are?

I would love to be able to throw some extra guns that aren't an additional Combi-Bolter and Havoc Launcher >.> lol

You can customize CSM land raiders all day long. Havoc launchers, dirge casters, and combi-bolters are fine upgrades. Two TL LCs and a TL HB is a decent weaponry -- they can even take down flyers since they are hitting on snap shots 30% of the time.

CSM LRs also give you the ability to protect your CSM from helldrakes. You can also use it as an assault platform (or counter-assault)

Your buddy is just trying to get your goat by saying how great hurricane bolters and redeemers are. Tell him that the helldrake does not care about the silly redeemer. The helldrake can kill a lot more than MEQ than some silly redeemer. Helldrake does as helldrake pleases.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Helldrake does as helldrake pleases.

QFT

The Chaos LR is decent, even if only because you can put Ezekiel melon-fething Abaddon inside it.

I'd be cool with the Chaos Land Raider if he had at least the basic 12-capacity of the regular loyalist vehicle. As it is, it is simply worse in every respect, gets a barely noticiable point reduction, and can be upgraded to be a bit more versatile.

As useful as the dirge caster and the dozer blade are, though, you can't beat PotMS , multi-melta access and being able to carry a 5-termi unit plus and IC around.

Hell, improving the Chaos LR would likely move more chaos terminator merchandise for that very reason.

You'd think they'd just remake it entirely if they are going to just continue with the godhammer variant.

Make it Daemon Possessed, make it chaotic, make it something different but yet have the purpose of "Get close and unleash hell."

If it were naturally Demonically Possessed, and had simply 1 option to upgrade the Heavy Bolter to something like a Reaper Autocannon, I'd be happy... Right now, I'm basically using these things as drivable Aeigis D-Lines for my Rhinos XD

My CLR is there to be crappy anti-air and to give my zerkers one guaranteed charge.

If I had my way, I'd use the design option they did with the basic CSM troop: a bare, functional, cheap basic option and then upgrades up the wazoo. Want a version of PotMS? 20 points. Want heavy flamer sponsons with the Torrent rule to use your LR as a horde-cleaner? 40 points. Want to upgrade the carry capacity to 14? 30 points.

 Sephyr wrote:
I'd be cool with the Chaos Land Raider if he had at least the basic 12-capacity of the regular loyalist vehicle.

IIRC, Ward got slapped rather hard for giving the standard Land Raider a capacity of 12 - which is why the standard Land Raiders in subsequent Marine books went back to 10.

But dont loyalist also got the crusaders and the other flamer ones and those can take more models ?

Makumba wrote:
But dont loyalist also got the crusaders and the other flamer ones and those can take more models ?

In fact they do, which makes the 10 capacity Traitor raider look even sillier. Also unlike them, the Chaos version can't even take a Multi-Melta or give the Terminators inside grenades. Frankly, the Chaos Land Raider didn't get enough of a discount for how bad it is at 10 capacity with no PoTMS.

I have always wanted a chaos variant of the Land Raider I have even come up with a pretty cool idea as well, the Land Raider Obliterator. A Land Raider that Warpsmiths have infected with the Obliterator virus turning it into a daemonic tank able to change its weapons each turn. It fits perfectly with the fluff as well as it would be believable as well after all if a warpsmith can create daemon engines why can't they make their existing vehicles more daemonic.

 GhostKnight31 wrote:
I have always wanted a chaos variant of the Land Raider I have even come up with a pretty cool idea as well, the Land Raider Obliterator. A Land Raider that Warpsmiths have infected with the Obliterator virus turning it into a daemonic tank able to change its weapons each turn. It fits perfectly with the fluff as well as it would be believable as well after all if a warpsmith can create daemon engines why can't they make their existing vehicles more daemonic.

I think this is an ingenious idea. I like it alot.

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
If you look in the codec csm is described as using the same equipment that they did during HH. I know from the BL books that the dark Mechanicum is suppose to delve into forbidden tech, but in the codec we had millinia behind.

The old Chaos Plasma guns were different to the loyalists. They fired more often at high power, but had a chance of blowing up, while Loyalists would have to recharge for a turn if they used high power. Their advanced tech incorporated safety features that Chaos was less concerned about.

Then 3rd ED took that mechanic and turned it into the Gets Hot! rule for everyone, which was fine I guess. We all had the same Plasma now.

Imagine my surprise at finding that Dark Angels now get a Heavy Plasma that shoots multiple blast templates as the old Mk1 Plasma Cannon did, complete with chance of going wrong. Seems that Dark Angels have the same old technology we used to have, only even we don't have it any more.

Because Loyalists, that's why.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
If you look in the codec csm is described as using the same equipment that they did during HH. I know from the BL books that the dark Mechanicum is suppose to delve into forbidden tech, but in the codec we had millinia behind.

The old Chaos Plasma guns were different to the loyalists. They fired more often at high power, but had a chance of blowing up, while Loyalists would have to recharge for a turn if they used high power. Their advanced tech incorporated safety features that Chaos was less concerned about.

Then 3rd ED took that mechanic and turned it into the Gets Hot! rule for everyone, which was fine I guess. We all had the same Plasma now.

Imagine my surprise at finding that Dark Angels now get a Heavy Plasma that shoots multiple blast templates as the old Mk1 Plasma Cannon did, complete with chance of going wrong. Seems that Dark Angels have the same old technology we used to have, only even we don't have it any more.

Because Loyalists, that's why.

Because Kelly phoned in the codex.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
I'd be cool with the Chaos Land Raider if he had at least the basic 12-capacity of the regular loyalist vehicle.

IIRC, Ward got slapped rather hard for giving the standard Land Raider a capacity of 12 - which is why the standard Land Raiders in subsequent Marine books went back to 10.

I thought it was the Space Marine Drop Pod that was the issue, as it went from 12 back down to 10 in later codecies. I don't have the DA or Space Wolf codecies in front of me to confirm the Land Raider, but I'm certain about other drop pods being capacity 10.

The CSM landraider is fine, good deployment mechanism. Chaos was never about them though, all them troops and stuff is where chaos is at.

Whilst the CSM LR is useful, it would be nice to have more variation when it comes to putting one on the table.

Personally, I'd love to be able to take a 1KSons Crusader. For use as an extra wave of bolter shots to clean up anything that the sons didn't get.

Though that's never going to happen. Unless they radically rethink the approach to CSM tank variants.

GW has shown that they make the models and then the codex writers make rules/fluff around them.

Basically no one has made a CSM landraider sprue with different options for a codex to add them.

 Sephyr wrote:
I'd be cool with the Chaos Land Raider if he had at least the basic 12-capacity of the regular loyalist vehicle. As it is, it is simply worse in every respect, gets a barely noticiable point reduction, and can be upgraded to be a bit more versatile.

As useful as the dirge caster and the dozer blade are, though, you can't beat PotMS , multi-melta access and being able to carry a 5-termi unit plus and IC around.

Hence my current project of beefing up a CLR into a Spartan.

 kronk wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
I'd be cool with the Chaos Land Raider if he had at least the basic 12-capacity of the regular loyalist vehicle.

IIRC, Ward got slapped rather hard for giving the standard Land Raider a capacity of 12 - which is why the standard Land Raiders in subsequent Marine books went back to 10.

I thought it was the Space Marine Drop Pod that was the issue, as it went from 12 back down to 10 in later codecies. I don't have the DA or Space Wolf codecies in front of me to confirm the Land Raider, but I'm certain about other drop pods being capacity 10.

Wolves have 10 capacity, both on the Pods and Godhammers.

230pts is steep, but totally worth it if you're running an assault-based army.

Shhhh, be happy with your silly helldrake!

 thenoobbomb wrote:
HH technology is usually better then the 'recent' 40K technology.

Oh that explains why our Dreadclaws are better than Drop pods I guess, too bad we'll never get them.

does anyone know how many can fit in a chimera?
last i checked (2 months ago, gave codex to friend), it had troop cap of 12, idk about you all but i think it is odd that a smaller transport carries 12 while a larger one only carries 10, even the extra space required for armour etc doesn't really make sense.

the thing that does it for me in not using a CSM LR is iirc it dosn't have the machine spirit rule that loyalists have (forgive me i am reading from an older codex). it doesn't really come down to weapon options as there are more than enough choices to field an army that no one else has thought of, loyalists have less choice (of overall units), but more in regards to weapons/vehicles.

 Texanity wrote:
Shhhh, be happy with your silly helldrake!

Some of us prefer to challenge ourselves rather than just run the same stale Nurgle/Tzeench + 3 Helldrake abortion.