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 poda_t wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, if we do bomb them away I say we don't step in and clean up the mess. Let them rebuild themselves, or let China do it. Their pet dog, their mess.

that's great, but the solutions are seldom that simple. China might run a temper, and just happen to lose track of some artillery pieces that inevitably end up firing out of NK into japan. Then there'd be retaliatory strikes against SK and Japan. If they hold the territory by the time the bombs fly, then it's going to be civilian "criminal" executions to retaliate against the US, and a possible redistribution of the population so that the US bombs the people they are supposedly protecting.

Carpet bombing is a hell of a lot of fun, it's pretty to watch at night, but, my god, is it as far as you can get from a desired solution.

So what you're really saying is MaCarthur was right...

 poda_t wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, if we do bomb them away I say we don't step in and clean up the mess. Let them rebuild themselves, or let China do it. Their pet dog, their mess.

that's great, but the solutions are seldom that simple. China might run a temper, and just happen to lose track of some artillery pieces that inevitably end up firing out of NK into japan.

If China has artillery that can fire several hundred miles, we're all in trouble.

China's cool. The west is homies with them. Any disaster between China and West will result in China losing most of its exports.

Well, this has been an interesting thread to read through.

All in all, this is one of those situations, I reckon, where everything is more or less dependent on what happens next, so to speak.
After all, we all know NK's about as impoverished as it gets, and is most likely sabre-rattling; however, US and SK forces have responded with a similar rattle of their own, very expensive and artisan-quality blade which has a longer reach and cuts better. At the moment, it seems like two kids in the playground, squaring up, pointing fingers and calling names, threatening to "get my big brother/pet dog who's a doberman on you", but not quiiiiite pushing over into an actual fistfight yet because neither kid has quite reached the stage where the risks, in their minds, are outweighed by seeing that smug Imperialist/crazed Commie mother hubbard on his arse. Whether or not one kid's going to go too far and insult the other's mum in the next week or so is hard to say.
So in short, my two cents is a little bit meaningless, really, but even so.

 djones520 wrote:

 poda_t wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, if we do bomb them away I say we don't step in and clean up the mess. Let them rebuild themselves, or let China do it. Their pet dog, their mess.

that's great, but the solutions are seldom that simple. China might run a temper, and just happen to lose track of some artillery pieces that inevitably end up firing out of NK into japan.

If China has artillery that can fire several hundred miles, we're all in trouble.

China will not suport North Korea this time around because;
a) It's very bad for buisness
b) Even they are getting fed-up with "Little Fatty's" antics which could very well destabilise the entire region and put even more US military presence in the region.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if NK continues to act like a spoiled little brat, China will 'turn off' the oil flow like they did in 2003.

 Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Well, this has been an interesting thread to read through.

All in all, this is one of those situations, I reckon, where everything is more or less dependent on what happens next, so to speak.
After all, we all know NK's about as impoverished as it gets, and is most likely sabre-rattling; however, US and SK forces have responded with a similar rattle of their own, very expensive and artisan-quality blade which has a longer reach and cuts better. At the moment, it seems like two kids in the playground, squaring up, pointing fingers and calling names, threatening to "get my big brother/pet dog who's a doberman on you", but not quiiiiite pushing over into an actual fistfight yet because neither kid has quite reached the stage where the risks, in their minds, are outweighed by seeing that smug Imperialist/crazed Commie mother hubbard on his arse. Whether or not one kid's going to go too far and insult the other's mum in the next week or so is hard to say.
So in short, my two cents is a little bit meaningless, really, but even so.

If the fat child decides to throw his shovel at the other kid, that kid's mon definitely going to crush its sandcastle.

 djones520 wrote:

 poda_t wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, if we do bomb them away I say we don't step in and clean up the mess. Let them rebuild themselves, or let China do it. Their pet dog, their mess.

that's great, but the solutions are seldom that simple. China might run a temper, and just happen to lose track of some artillery pieces that inevitably end up firing out of NK into japan.

If China has artillery that can fire several hundred miles, we're all in trouble.

last i recall, missile batteries count as artillery.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Well, this has been an interesting thread to read through.

All in all, this is one of those situations, I reckon, where everything is more or less dependent on what happens next, so to speak.
After all, we all know NK's about as impoverished as it gets, and is most likely sabre-rattling; however, US and SK forces have responded with a similar rattle of their own, very expensive and artisan-quality blade which has a longer reach and cuts better. At the moment, it seems like two kids in the playground, squaring up, pointing fingers and calling names, threatening to "get my big brother/pet dog who's a doberman on you", but not quiiiiite pushing over into an actual fistfight yet because neither kid has quite reached the stage where the risks, in their minds, are outweighed by seeing that smug Imperialist/crazed Commie mother hubbard on his arse. Whether or not one kid's going to go too far and insult the other's mum in the next week or so is hard to say.
So in short, my two cents is a little bit meaningless, really, but even so.

If the fat child decides to throw his shovel at the other kid, that kid's mon definitely going to crush its sandcastle.

Depends if the fat kid thinks he can stand up to a beating from said bigger kid. Sure, we know what the result will be, but he doesn't necessarily know that.

A few major Deveopments:

The results of a classified Defense Intelligence Agency report indicate that “North Korea now has nuclear weapons capable of delivery by ballistic missiles.”


That was the bombshell out of a House Armed Services Committee hearing Thursday.

It came when Rep. Doug Lamborn (R) of Colorado began quoting from what he said was an unclassified version of the DIA report, which has not yet been made public.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2013/0411/Lawmaker-drops-bombshell-North-Korea-may-have-nuclear-missiles?nav=87-frontpage-entryLeadStory

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/391376/North-Korea-states-nuclear-war-is-unavoidable-as-it-declares-first-target-will-be-Japan

North Korea states 'nuclear war is unavoidable' as it declares first target will be Japan

NORTH KOREA has warned Japan that Tokyo would be the first target in the event of a war on the Korean Peninsula, as it increased threats of an attack.
n a commentary carried by the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA), the communist country lashed out at Tokyo's standing orders to destroy any missile heading toward Japan, threatening such actions will result in a nuclear attack against the island nation.

If Japan executes its threat to shoot down any North Korean missile, such a “provocative” intervention would see Tokyo — an enormous conurbation of 30 million people — “consumed in nuclear flames”, KCNA warned.

“Japan is always in the cross-hairs of our revolutionary army and if Japan makes a slightest move, the spark of war will touch Japan first,” the report added.

That is a bit of a surprise. Would explain why Kim has been playing like he has big boy britches on now.

so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

 Necros wrote:
so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

I think Kim has a flawed idea of what constitutes aggression

 Necros wrote:
so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

You have to respect that. Its like saying I'm going to throw a punch at you, but if you block it, I'm going to throw another punch at you for declaring war by block the punch I was trying to hit you with.

Or its like saying Japan declares war on the US and will send planes from the Akagi because it sent planes from the Yorktown to sink Akagi after the Akagi sent planes to sink the Yorktown. Er...what???

EDIT: I just realized, its all part of their fiendish master plan to confuse our running capitalist dog minds such much we just start punching ourselves in the face. Kim, oh you clever girl!

 Frazzled wrote:

 Necros wrote:
so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

You have to respect that. Its like saying I'm going to throw a punch at you, but if you block it, I'm going to throw another punch at you for declaring war by block the punch I was trying to hit you with.

Or its like saying Japan declares war on the US and will send planes from the Akagi because it sent planes from the Yorktown to sink Akagi after the Akagi sent planes to sink the Yorktown. Er...what???

Hey, it's good Orkish logic. Fine, you shot down one missile, but if we keep shooting at you, eventually one will get through!

Overheard Conversation Between Kim Jung-un And His General

Army: "Proceeding with launch. Preparing final countdown."

Kim: "Excellent. Excellent. All according to plan."

Army: "We’ll go right ahead. Any minute now."

Kim: "Great. You go shoot those evil imperialists if they don’t stop that business this minute."

Army: "Will do."

Kim: "Weapons free."

Army: "Weapons are free. Locked and loaded."

Kim: "Fire at will."

Army: "Awaiting the final command."

Kim: "Final command granted."

Kim: "Missiles read to launch?"

Army: "All missiles ready for launch and awaiting command."

Kim: "Commence countdown for missiles."

Army: "Countdown commencing."

Kim: "Prepare for end of countdown."

Army: "Army is prepared for end of countdown and open war on the imperialists."

Kim: "Excellent. Go forth and destroy them all, for my father’s memory."

Army: "We will now go forth and destroy them all, for your father’s memory."

Kim: "Be sure to destroy them all. Don’t show any mercy – they deserve none."

Army: "We will show them no mercy as we ruthlessly mow them down."

Kim: "Are all the troops accounted for and ready"

Army: "All troops accounted for and ready"

Kim: "And the missiles?"

Army: "We did those already. Missiles ready and ready to commence launch."

Kim: "Commence launch"

Army: "Commencing launch of our dangerous missiles."

Kim: "Good. Proceed with the launch of our deadly, dangerous missiles."

Army: "Proceeding with launch. Preparing final countdown."

Kim: "Excellent. Excellent. All according to plan."

Watch the language please folks, note the site language restrictions do also apply to images and the like too.

 Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Necros wrote:
so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

You have to respect that. Its like saying I'm going to throw a punch at you, but if you block it, I'm going to throw another punch at you for declaring war by block the punch I was trying to hit you with.

Or its like saying Japan declares war on the US and will send planes from the Akagi because it sent planes from the Yorktown to sink Akagi after the Akagi sent planes to sink the Yorktown. Er...what???

Hey, it's good Orkish logic. Fine, you shot down one missile, but if we keep shooting at you, eventually one will get through!

That plan kind of falls apart when you don't have all that many missiles though.

 AduroT wrote:

 Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Necros wrote:
so.. are they saying.. "If you destroy our missiles, we'll nuke you with a missile that you're not allowed to destroy too?"

You have to respect that. Its like saying I'm going to throw a punch at you, but if you block it, I'm going to throw another punch at you for declaring war by block the punch I was trying to hit you with.

Or its like saying Japan declares war on the US and will send planes from the Akagi because it sent planes from the Yorktown to sink Akagi after the Akagi sent planes to sink the Yorktown. Er...what???

Hey, it's good Orkish logic. Fine, you shot down one missile, but if we keep shooting at you, eventually one will get through!

That plan kind of falls apart when you don't have all that many missiles though.

Yeaaaaaaah. "Clap your hands if you believe" only works in fiction, too, which may hamper the missile launches even further.