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Lately I have been thinking of using lrbt to protect my troop transports. Basically moving them forward in a diamond formation so the lrbt could soak up the dmg untill my transports could zip out and conquer an objective. Is this a viable strategy if so what type of lrbt should I use?

If anything, then demolisher, though I think this is too many points spent on escort.

It is a viable strategy, and I've done it recently. The main problem is that it's insufferably slow, as the transports are basically stuck moving 6" per turn.

As for which russes to use, it kind of doesn't matter. The important thing is to not take an ordnance russ, so that you can really take advantage of a hull lascannon (to be able to shoot at stuff while you close range) and sponson multimeltas (to really hammer stuff when you DO get into range). I guess I'd give a slight preference towards things that have longer-ranged guns, like vanquishers, exterminators, etc. as you're already going to be packing a pretty serious punch when you get close with things like sponson weapons and mechvets.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
If anything, then demolisher, though I think this is too many points spent on escort.

If you've got access to Forgeworld units, the Thunderer is a fantastic alternative. Not only do you save 25 points relative to the Demolisher, you also lose the bothersome Lumbering Behemoth rule. The primary disadvantage lies in the fact that your Demolisher Cannon is now hull mounted, rather than turret mounted. And of course, you lose access to the traditional hull/sponson-mounted options available to a "true" Leman Russ. But a Demolisher Cannon forces you to snap-fire those, anyway.

 Ailaros wrote:
I guess I'd give a slight preference towards things that have longer-ranged guns, like vanquishers, exterminators, etc. as you're already going to be packing a pretty serious punch when you get close with things like sponson weapons and mechvets.

And of course, the Vanquisher and Exterminator are a bit cheaper than variants like the Executioner and Punisher. So if your goal is to get more armor on the field, those variants are going to serve you better, anyway. I'm not personally a fan of the strategy, since you're investing so much of your anti-tank into units without the ability to threaten flyers. But if you're playing without Forgeworld, there's really only one alternative to that, and we've all heard enough about those.

The strategy works but, as the A man said, it makes your advance super duper slow.

And be careful where you advance because you can have your Chimeras stuck behind the wreckages of your escort tanks, as I learned during my 1st game of 40k.

Last I checked, a wrecked vehicle only counts as difficult/dangerous terrain. While taking a dangerous terrain test isn't cause for celebration, it's a pretty reasonable risk in the scope of everything else that's going on.

It might look silly to drive that Chimera over the smoking wreckage of what was your Leman Russ, but the rules allow it and don't really penalize you much for attempting it!

Yeah, I just remembered that while I was typing. To be fair, it was my first game after all... still, my advice stands. You don't want to end up with a wrecked tank pile up!

 dejah wrote:
Lately I have been thinking of using lrbt to protect my troop transports. Basically moving them forward in a diamond formation so the lrbt could soak up the dmg untill my transports could zip out and conquer an objective. Is this a viable strategy if so what type of lrbt should I use?

Somewhat. There's no rule that prevents your opponents from just shooting the Chimeras anyway, and since all your expensive Leman Russ is giving them is a 5+ cover save you're better off using your smoke launchers for a turn and spending the LRBT points on buying another unit in a Chimera. The only way this can work is if you take a nasty threat like a LR Demolisher and force your opponent to shoot at it (or lose units to it) instead of the more fragile Chimeras, but you're not really gaining much from the formation compared to just sending a couple LR Demolishers at the enemy independent of your troops.

 Ailaros wrote:
The important thing is to not take an ordnance russ, so that you can really take advantage of a hull lascannon (to be able to shoot at stuff while you close range) and sponson multimeltas (to really hammer stuff when you DO get into range).

This is bad advice. A relatively weak LR like the Exterminator isn't going to draw fire and protect the Chimeras since it's less of a threat than the Chimeras are. To successfully protect the Chimeras the LR needs to be an ordnance variant, either the LR Demolisher for its obvious high threat potential, or the LRBT for a cheap threat that is still perceived as a high priority target by many players.

(In theory the LR Executioner could work, but it's way too expensive to use as a meatshield tank.)

I guess I'd give a slight preference towards things that have longer-ranged guns, like vanquishers, exterminators, etc. as you're already going to be packing a pretty serious punch when you get close with things like sponson weapons and mechvets.

Again, bad advice. Why is range important on a tank that is going to drive up to close range as fast as possible? Vanquishers are nice if your goal is to sit back and shoot, but if you're closing to 24" range anyway you might as well benefit from the demolisher cannon's superior firepower.

I think it also depends on the points your playing and what role you want them to fill. Do you need that turret weapon to have high Str? Do you want to load up on sponsons and options to inflate the price? Do you care if it is ordnance weapon or not?

Personally, I am cautious of putting more points into them then I have to. Because you want to be moving every turn and with how ordnance rules work, I think you just found the perfect role for a Exterminator. It is cheap, can have a heavy bolter, has 4TLed AC shots to put on MCs, Flyers, troops, light vehicles, ect and can move and fire both the Turret and the hull weapon at full BS. If you want to pop for a hull LC for some AT or HB sponsons, that is a option, but I like it for 150pts just how it is. Let my Melta vets kill armor or LC fire from my start point be my AT... or even my Vendettas.

 BlkTom wrote:
It is cheap, can have a heavy bolter, has 4TLed AC shots to put on MCs, Flyers, troops, light vehicles, ect and can move and fire both the Turret and the hull weapon at full BS.

And it has one fatal problem: it's less of a threat than the Chimeras and their passengers, so it doesn't accomplish the OP's goal of protecting the Chimeras.

Dang it Peregrine, I was going to write out some long winded statement on if you make the LRBTs to cheap your not drawing fire and if you make them to expensive then your better off having the Chimeras out in front of them and giving the LRBTs the cover save. But I erased it and skipped it to be more focused. I still think if the goal is a cover save (Turn 1 behind the LRBTs, Turn 2 using smoke), using your LRBTs to get it for a turn isn't a bad plan... just a really expensive one.

 Peregrine wrote:

 dejah wrote:
Lately I have been thinking of using lrbt to protect my troop transports. Basically moving them forward in a diamond formation so the lrbt could soak up the dmg untill my transports could zip out and conquer an objective. Is this a viable strategy if so what type of lrbt should I use?

Somewhat. There's no rule that prevents your opponents from just shooting the Chimeras anyway, and since all your expensive Leman Russ is giving them is a 5+ cover save you're better off using your smoke launchers for a turn and spending the LRBT points on buying another unit in a Chimera. The only way this can work is if you take a nasty threat like a LR Demolisher and force your opponent to shoot at it (or lose units to it) instead of the more fragile Chimeras, but you're not really gaining much from the formation compared to just sending a couple LR Demolishers at the enemy independent of your troops.

I think the idea was that the Russes could block LoS entirely, which would prevent the enemy from targeting the chimeras in the first place. However, I don't presently have access to the models, so I can't test this for myself.
EDIT: This could very well be a case where I'm the one making an unwarranted assumption. If I really am in error here, I apologize!

Corollax wrote:
I think the idea was that the Russes could block LoS entirely, which would prevent the enemy from targeting the chimeras in the first place. However, I don't presently have access to the models, so I can't test this for myself.

I just checked it and nope, it's not possible. The Chimera model is a few mm wider than a Leman Russ, so you can only mostly hide a Chimera*, and if even 0.001% of the Chimera is visible it's just a 5+ cover save. And of course the OP's formation using one LRBT to cover multiple Chimeras has no chance of doing it, there's no way to completely obscure multiple Chimeras with a single LRBT.


*Technically you can turn the LRBT sideways (which is probably suicide) and hide it from directly in front of the LRBT, but even a slight shift in angle will make the Chimera visible.

Thanks for correcting me. This isn't an area where I have much expertise -- especially because I don't really like any of the Russ variants.

Yikes... I thought he was using 3 LRBTs. I think I was confused when he mentioned 'diamond formation' and thought he was using the LRBTs as the top and side points, with the Chimeras inside and forming the bottom point. Yeah, with one LRBT, he is lucky to give any of them cover.

This tactic is becoming more and more unviable with the numbers listed...

 BlkTom wrote:
Yikes... I thought he was using 3 LRBTs. I think I was confused when he mentioned 'diamond formation' and thought he was using the LRBTs as the top and side points, with the Chimeras inside and forming the bottom point. Yeah, with one LRBT, he is lucky to give any of them cover.

I guess in theory with 3x LRBT you could block LOS from most angles, but then you're spending a minimum of 450 points to protect a single Chimera. That just makes no sense when you could instead "protect" the single Chimera by buying three more melta vet Chimeras to replace it when it dies.

I think this is how I saw it... hope this works... L=LRBT, c= Chimera, Top of page is direction headed.

-----L-----
L---c---L
---c--c---
-----c-----

Now...this can run with 3 Chimera instead of 4, but I was shooting for a diamond pattern. I /could/ see something like this working, specially with sponsons and the like on the LRBTs to suck up more space to give those Chimeras in the 'gaps' enough to block 25% LoS to give that cover save. This is obviously going to be a huge part of your list, as every unit will probably run around 150pts each on average.

I can see turn 1 everything moves 6". Turn 2, your Chimeras move up between the gaps (remember the models have to physically have the room to do this) 12" and pop smoke This should put them half way across the board if your fighting a gunline type list ( I am assuming that first move of 6" got your Chimeras to or a few inches past your 12" set up line). The next turn, if you survive this long, your in rapid fire plasma range and melta range.

What this tactic gives you that you normally do not get just lining up your Chimeras at the 12" line and going 12" is if you lose 1st turn or your opponent 'Seizes', your chimeras might survive round 1 to let you use smoke. You can use this set up and at least reliably get cover saves Turn 1 and Turn 2 with smoke. A single LRBT doesn't allow this and a wall of LRBTs doesn't allow your Chimeras to move past them effectively (specially if your squading up the LRBTs because you have to maintain that 4" gap).

Just my thoughts... but I can't see a single LRBT really doing anything worthwhile.

and pray no manticores or medusa get fielded.

The demolisher works in this role really well. Not by blocking LoS but by as said earlier being such a huge threat the enemy is forced to deal with it.

The chimera is just too big to block LoS with anything but a Land Raider. Speaking of land raiders the DA have the PFG that can get stuffed in one and double the survivability of the chimera within 3" of it(4++ save). You are however then playing DA/IG and not IG! so sad times IG would get allied again.

The other option is to just field something so high threat that the enemy ignores your chimera advance to kill it. ie similar to LR demolisher but can be punisher if the enemy is a horde or SW drop pods to force them to deal with it, or artillery.

I would say LRBT is best as a demolisher for this purpose but don't glue the turrent so you can change your options.

Peregrine wrote: LR needs to be an ordnance variant, either the LR Demolisher for its obvious high threat potential, or the LRBT for a cheap threat that is still perceived as a high priority target by many players.

Yes, against dumb opponents, ordnance russes are better.

Against ones with a shred of common sense, your opponents are going to be targeting your chimeras first anyways (especially with all of their mid-strength weapons like autocannons that can't even hurt the russes). The real question is if your russes can manage to kill off those things that are the biggest threat to your chimeras before they kill your chimeras.

An exterminator firing with a lascannon does more damage to virtually every target type than a LRBT with a snap-fired one.

Meanwhile...

Peregrine wrote: Why is range important on a tank that is going to drive up to close range as fast as possible?

Because "as fast as possible" is only 6" per turn.

Odds are you're only getting to fire the lascannon on the first turn, and even then, if your opponents have anti-tank weapons with a range longer than 36", it's going to be two turns before you can target them. Remember, it doesn't matter if the demolisher is in the range of anything, it's important that the demolisher is in range of stuff that can hurt the chimeras.

Generally I like to keep my tanks cheap so that they are more expendable and I have more points for the expendable troops as well.

If you already have three LRDemolishers, using them to screen your Chimeras is fine.

If you're just looking for a cover save, spending 450+ points on it to protect some chimeras is a bad call.

It's easily outmaneuvered, and way too expensive. If anything, you want your Chimeras to be giving your LR's cover.

 Ailaros wrote:
The real question is if your russes can manage to kill off those things that are the biggest threat to your chimeras before they kill your chimeras.

Except that's not what the OP asked. The OP wants to use the LRBT as a shield and bullet magnet, not as an offensive threat to destroy anti-tank units before they can fire. If you abandon the plan of using the physical presence of the Leman Russ to protect the Chimeras then we also need to start talking about artillery/aircraft/etc.

Odds are you're only getting to fire the lascannon on the first turn, and even then, if your opponents have anti-tank weapons with a range longer than 36", it's going to be two turns before you can target them.

So what? It's not like the autocannons on a LR Exterminator offer any meaningful threat anyway, and your beloved sponson weapons suffer from the exact same range problems as the demolisher cannon.

Remember, it doesn't matter if the demolisher is in the range of anything, it's important that the demolisher is in range of stuff that can hurt the chimeras.

Nonsense. The LR Demolisher's job is to draw anti-tank fire by dropping a STR 10 AP 2 pieplate on something. As long as it's threatening something important it's drawing shots away from the Chimeras.