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 Void__Dragon wrote:
I'd actually just assume that most writers, GW and BL, disregard what the armour actually looks and would function like.

I'm sure they probably won't, personally. And any "contradictions" would only have relevance if it is the same Primarch being spoken of.

There is one statement on the height of a Primarch I have seen. Three meters outside of armour, and a head above Termie armoured astartes. That last part is parroted many times in many books.

Debate doesn't need a purpose; the argument is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I debate.

Best Black Knight response, ever.

 Formosa wrote:
If you look at the angron mini and straightened him out, he would be twice as tall as a marine, depending on which.source you use for.marine height that could put.him between 16 and 26 feet tall...madness

Magnus can change his height as needed and is therefore both the tallest and the shortest. In Battle of the Fang, he grew to ~50' tall. In Battle of the mouse hole, he shrank to 3" tall.

Angron is the shortest, as seen in the image below. He's the tiny, angry man standing next to Magnus the Red. Using the FW model as a basis: A Space Marine is 13 feet tall, so Angron must be 18-20' tall, therefore the average Primarch is 25' tall. End of!

There is a passage I remember reading about Leman Russ patting a dreadnought on the shoulder amiably, this predated the creation of Bjorn FH in the lore so I'm not sure which dread it was.

If we can establish the size of a dreadnought, we have the size of a Primarch at minimum.

IIRC, Magnus has been traditionally described as large for a primarch and Angron seems to be leaning over the rail there.

13 feet? damn. Being two heads taller than a human equates into 13 feet? no offense but that'd mean the average adult male in the US (5'9") is less than half the height. Although guardsmen are described as chest/shoulder height to a Marine in full Power Armor.

 kronk wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
If you look at the angron mini and straightened him out, he would be twice as tall as a marine, depending on which.source you use for.marine height that could put.him between 16 and 26 feet tall...madness

Magnus can change his height as needed and is therefore both the tallest and the shortest. In Battle of the Fang, he grew to ~50' tall. In Battle of the mouse hole, he shrank to 3" tall.

Angron is the shortest, as seen in the image below. He's the tiny, angry man standing next to Magnus the Red. Using the FW model as a basis: A Space Marine is 13 feet tall, so Angron must be 18-20' tall, therefore the average Primarch is 25' tall. End of!

This fits with the description of what some of the Primarchs are able to achieve physically.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
There is a passage I remember reading about Leman Russ patting a dreadnought on the shoulder amiably, this predated the creation of Bjorn FH in the lore so I'm not sure which dread it was.

If we can establish the size of a dreadnought, we have the size of a Primarch at minimum.

dreads are generally 2.5-3 times the height of a Space Marine IIRC.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
13 feet? damn. Being two heads taller than a human equates into 13 feet? no offense but that'd mean the average adult male in the US (5'9") is less than half the height. Although guardsmen are described as chest/shoulder height to a Marine in full Power Armor.

I'll remind you that Heresy and Crusade era marines, being closer to their progenitor-Primarchs in the purity and potency of their geneseed, were far larger than the 'current' marines of the 41st. The closer the generation to it's founder, the more powerful and larger the marine becomes.

I always wondered. Since the Custodians were rumored to have their geneseed/code/whatever directly from the Emperor, how tall would that have made them if true?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
13 feet? damn. Being two heads taller than a human equates into 13 feet? no offense but that'd mean the average adult male in the US (5'9") is less than half the height. Although guardsmen are described as chest/shoulder height to a Marine in full Power Armor.

I'll remind you that Heresy and Crusade era marines, being closer to their progenitor-Primarchs in the purity and potency of their geneseed, were far larger than the 'current' marines of the 41st. The closer the generation to it's founder, the more powerful and larger the marine becomes.

This is supported by several statements in the HH novels where current, meaning 31st Millennium, Characters glimpse the 41st and see the Space Marines as a shadow of the power that they possess.

kronk wrote:I always wondered. Since the Custodians were rumored to have their geneseed/code/whatever directly from the Emperor, how tall would that have made them if true?

The Emperor is taller than average so maybe 6'5" or so?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I'll remind you that Heresy and Crusade era marines, being closer to their progenitor-Primarchs in the purity and potency of their geneseed, were far larger than the 'current' marines of the 41st. The closer the generation to it's founder, the more powerful and larger the marine becomes.

No they weren't. There's still plenty of Heresy era armours around, and they are just right sized for the current, seven feet tall marines. And 13 feet is just people absolutely having no sense of scale or proportion at all. That is the size of a Dreadnought or a Daemon Prince.

 kronk wrote:
I always wondered. Since the Custodians were rumored to have their geneseed/code/whatever directly from the Emperor, how tall would that have made them if true?

The Emperor is often shown, usually against Horus, in artwork. In those pictures he is comparable to Horus in height, despite Horus wearing terminator armor and the Emperor only wearing an ornate power armor.

If we take this into consideration, we can assume that as big as Horus is, the Emperor is bigger again, perhaps by a primarch head or two.

We are therefore looking at around 25 or 30 feet in height.

Factoring this, we can assume his own 'space marines', the Custodians, would be again, larger and tougher than the marines of antiquity, themselves greater than their descendants.

I'll go ahead and guestimate about 18 feet.

 Crimson wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I'll remind you that Heresy and Crusade era marines, being closer to their progenitor-Primarchs in the purity and potency of their geneseed, were far larger than the 'current' marines of the 41st. The closer the generation to it's founder, the more powerful and larger the marine becomes.

No they weren't. There's still plenty of Heresy era armours around, and they are just right sized for the current, seven feet tall marines. And 13 feet is just people absolutely having no sense of scale or proportion at all. That is the size of a Dreadnought or a Daemon Prince.

Citation for either of those statements? Techmarines and Chapter/Legion servitors make constant changes to Space Marine armor. Not every Space Marine who has worn a particular set of Mark III Iron Armor has been the exact same dimensions, adjustments must be made per user of the suit.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I always wondered. Since the Custodians were rumored to have their geneseed/code/whatever directly from the Emperor, how tall would that have made them if true?

I'll go ahead and guestimate about 18 feet.

Oh. That seems short to me. How would they fit in the land raider driver's seats? I guess they have full-grown Space Marines in terminator armor driving them.

Oh, Emperor is now 30 feet! Awesome!

(for comparison, Tyrannosaurus Rex could grow to be 20 feet tall.)

Surprised Angron was so "short" (comparatively at least). Maybe he just had Napoleonic syndrome.

At least he turned into a giant after being a Daemon Prince.

Anyway as for the Emperor's size, I don't imagine him any larger then your average Primarch. He was slightly smaller then Horus in the artwork, and I assume by that point he wasn't bothering to hide his size anymore.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

Citation for either of those statements? Techmarines and Chapter/Legion servitors make constant changes to Space Marine armor. Not every Space Marine who has worn a particular set of Mark III Iron Armor has been the exact same dimensions, adjustments must be made per user of the suit.

Adjusting armour made to 13 feet man to fit to seven feet man would be like adjusting Challenger tank to be a Mini Cooper.

 Crimson wrote:
Oh, Emperor is now 30 feet! Awesome!

(for comparison, Tyrannosaurus Rex could grow to be 20 feet tall.)

So, you're going to start throwing random dinosaur sizes about in the thread for...?

This is the scifi equivelent of Greek or Roman mythology, with slightly less man-love, it is a time of legends and giants and if you're going to staunchly stand there and compare the size of the emperor to the dinosaurs, I can't stop you, but I can point out the flaws in your 'modern science' argument.

If Zeus is said to be 100 feet tall, do you want to start shouting because that's taller than a stegosaurus. This is a fantastical setting and you need to let go of the hyper-realistic. We go by what is written, not by what makes the most sense.

The Emperor has always been described as being bigger than the Primarchs in the HH series.

All Primarchs have always been described as being head and shoulders taller than their Legionaires.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

So, you're going to start throwing random dinosaur sizes about in the thread for...?

This is the scifi equivelent of Greek or Roman mythology, with slightly less man-love, it is a time of legends and giants and if you're going to staunchly stand there and compare the size of the emperor to the dinosaurs, I can't stop you, but I can point out the flaws in your 'modern science' argument.

It is not about science, it was just to make sure that people grasp what these numbers mean. If you're fine Emperor being 50% taller than a Tyrannosaurus Rex, then sure, whatever. I'm not stopping you imagining him like that.

 Crimson wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

Citation for either of those statements? Techmarines and Chapter/Legion servitors make constant changes to Space Marine armor. Not every Space Marine who has worn a particular set of Mark III Iron Armor has been the exact same dimensions, adjustments must be made per user of the suit.

Adjusting armour made to 13 feet man to fit to seven feet man would be like adjusting Challenger tank to be a Mini Cooper.

Of course, chapter relics are only given to proven heros, or astartes that best exemplify the geneseed. It makes sense that only the unusually tall would wear the old armor.

Also, converting a tank into a subcompact isn't done at one go. You'd gradually and slowly adjust armor down over the millenia. Cut a centimeter ever 50years, and you'd shorten something by two meters between the HH and present.

The human race has gotten taller as our food have become healthier, more balanced. Also, Flintstones vitamins.

It's no wonder that given 28,000 years, GNC and other vitamin stores have had ample time figuring out new ways to get us "healthier", and therefore taller.

And that's not to mention genetically altered foods like the stuff Monsanto makes. Who knows how far that research could go and what the REALLY long term effects would be!

The marine height trolls comes out of the woodwork again.

Marines are 7 feet, the Forgeworld Angron mini looks about 3 feet taller than the marines so Primarchs should be around 10 feet average.

Edit: The Emperor isn't huge either
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9OH6fcEcHeQ/TRJPEoxJTrI/AAAAAAAAApE/tlBiTEqfYCo/s1600/Emperor_VS_Horus.jpg

http://gamingtp.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/horus_vs_emperor3.jpg

 Gargantuan wrote:

Edit: The Emperor isn't huge either
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9OH6fcEcHeQ/TRJPEoxJTrI/AAAAAAAAApE/tlBiTEqfYCo/s1600/Emperor_VS_Horus.jpg

http://gamingtp.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/horus_vs_emperor3.jpg

Well, not when compared to his closest genetic relative...

You're saying that because his son is roughly his height, the emperor isn't huge?

That was the very picture I was citing earlier 'Gargantuan', The Big E's knees are both bent, the raised leg so much so that his foot is turned outside up!

If he straightens up, he's as tall as Horus is IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR! If Horus towers over his 'golden age' marines, the Emp towers over him! If a golden age marine is around 11-12ft, the H is what, 15-16ft and the E is around 20ft then, in that artwork alone! (so, perhaps Crimson was right about him being as tall as a T Rex, although it's worth remembering a T Rex is very long, rather than tall).

I thought I remember reading something back in the later 90's that Magnus was 20 feet tall and Leman Russ was 16 feet.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
That was the very picture I was citing earlier 'Gargantuan', The Big E's knees are both bent, the raised leg so much so that his foot is turned outside up!

If he straightens up, he's as tall as Horus is IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR! If Horus towers over his 'golden age' marines, the Emp towers over him! If a golden age marine is around 11-12ft, the H is what, 15-16ft and the E is around 20ft then, in that artwork alone! (so, perhaps Crimson was right about him being as tall as a T Rex, although it's worth remembering a T Rex is very long, rather than tall).

One of Big E's legs is straight (or at least almost straight) in the new duel artwork
Also, can I get a quote and page number where it says marines were 11+ feet in the Horus Heresy

You won't get one.

No source indicates that Heresy-era Marines were taller than their current incarnations.

13 feet? That's the size of a Dreadnought.

So here comes the question... How could Bjorn be interred into a Dreadnought, that is demonstratably the size of normal dreadnoughts, when he at base was as tall as it?

CSM codex puts unarmoured marines at 7ft and therefore armoured would be assumed about 8ft.
Alpharius was only just taller at ~9ft by my reckoning.

Others I am not sure about.
Sanguinius, from the artwork of Fear to Tread, looks not.much shorter than a Bloodthirster.
Horus was, judging by the "woman height of waist", was probably about ~12ft.
The rest can vary. Magnus I'm guessing is probably at least 14ft

not to mention that most of them were said to tower over Cataphractii Terminators so that by reckoning puts them all, apart from Alpharius, at 14~ft depending on how tall a Cataphracti Terminator is.

 Deadshot wrote:
CSM codex puts unarmoured marines at 7ft and therefore armoured would be assumed about 8ft.
Alpharius was only just taller at ~9ft by my reckoning.

Others I am not sure about.
Sanguinius, from the artwork of Fear to Tread, looks not.much shorter than a Bloodthirster.
Horus was, judging by the "woman height of waist", was probably about ~12ft.
The rest can vary. Magnus I'm guessing is probably at least 14ft

not to mention that most of them were said to tower over Cataphractii Terminators so that by reckoning puts them all, apart from Alpharius, at 14~ft depending on how tall a Cataphracti Terminator is.

It doesn't say 7 feet unarmoured, only that marines stand 7 feet tall. Marines also don't wear 12 inch platform shoes