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Those who put this up clearly know it won't hold up. It was done in the attempt to garner votes from the extreme right. It will be shot down eventually and frankly will cost them seats in their state senate.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The US needs to stop obesessing over this issue...

We've always been living in a Spice World...

oh Abortions? Nah, we couldn't possibly ever get along with anyone else in this country... Think about the power we could easily possess if we actually started to work together...

Sometimes consensus decision making can ruin a good idea.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The US needs to stop obesessing over this issue...

How many folks live in your country?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The US needs to stop obesessing over this issue...

I don't know about that, I think it's a pretty important issue.

 kronk wrote:
Kronk will tell you what they want, what they really, really want.

Shall I tell you what they want, what they really, really want?

Yes, I'll tell you what they want, what they really, really want.

The really, really, really want to zig-a-zig ah.

I assume that's Welsh for access to affordable birth control and/or the ability to get abortions as has been made possible and protected through the supreme court's ruling on Roe versus Wade.

Kronk wins!

 Kovnik Obama wrote:
Such a statement really demands support before being acceptable.

According to this website, in 2009 of the 784,507 abortions reported to the CDC, 1.3% were undertaken after the 21st week. Multiply that out and you get 10,199 abortions. Whether that is due to legal hindrance or anything else I don't know. How many were undertaken because plans changed due to medical difficulties, again I don't know.

 dogma wrote:
And I didn't say that you said that was the only reason.

Yes you did. Read your own words:

You claimed that the only plausible reason an abortion would occur after 20 weeks was legal hindrance, that was, and is, an incorrect claim.

Which is a blatant lie since you removed the other half of the sentence which gave an additional reason.

Is it now "nitpicking" to distinguish private entities from public ones?

Yes, because:

1) It's all part of the same self-created problem: conservatives complain about 20+ week abortions that are only happening at 20+ weeks because they have imposed additional difficulties and delays (potentially with the deliberate intent to slow down the whole process until the deadline passes). Whether or not it's technically correct that it's a law causing the delay the general point I was making is still the same.

2) It IS a law in some cases. For example, a pregnant 17 year old might try to hide it from her parents, but you can't ignore the fact that parental notification/permission laws remove the option to just quietly get an abortion and prevent them from ever knowing.

So you presume to know what a woman really wants?

So are you actually going to provide any kind of evidence that a meaningful number of women are choosing to go through months of pregnancy (not exactly a fun experience if you aren't getting a baby at the end of it) before getting an abortion when they could have easily done it earlier? Or is this just more of your usual zero-content "YOU HAVEN'T PROVED EVERYTHING 100% TO MY SATISFACTION!!!!!!" complaining?

 Peregrine wrote:

So are you actually going to provide any kind of evidence that a meaningful number of women are choosing to go through months of pregnancy (not exactly a fun experience if you aren't getting a baby at the end of it) before getting an abortion when they could have easily done it earlier? Or is this just more of your usual zero-content "YOU HAVEN'T PROVED EVERYTHING 100% TO MY SATISFACTION!!!!!!" complaining?

No, I'm going to let you careen directly into the ground at the speed of your namesake.

 whembly wrote:
How many folks live in your country?

Not as many as yours, but I'm curious as to what that has to do with anything.

Please continue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 whembly wrote:
How many folks live in your country?

Not as many as yours, but I'm curious as to what that has to do with anything.

Please continue.

Its ok HBMC, you can tell 'em.

I have it on good evidence that the Aussie census officially includes "crocodiles, killer drop bears, killer drop snakes, eat legged killing machines, killer white sharks, and other harmless critters of the usual variety." But not frogs.
After all, if killer drop bears are good enough to scare away a Japanese invasion, they're good enough for the census!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 whembly wrote:
How many folks live in your country?

Not as many as yours, but I'm curious as to what that has to do with anything.

Please continue.

Just that there's 22 million living in Australia... can ya'll agree on things?

Now factor that out towards US' population of 313 million...

No one agrees here...

 whembly wrote:
Just that there's 22 million living in Australia... can ya'll agree on things?

Now factor that out towards US' population of 313 million...

No one agrees here...

Sure, no-one agrees here either. Hell, abortion is a legal mess exactly because no-one here agrees on it. In plenty of states in Australia* abortion is still illegal, but those laws are not enforced. In Queensland a few years ago there was a high profile case where some kids got an abortion pill sent from a relative in Queensland. Such is the shambles of abortion law in that state if they'd gone to a doctor to secure the pill they wouldn't have been charged (the poor kids had no idea that such a process was available and fairly common place). So they were the first people in Queensland to be charged with abortion in over 100 years, and the law they were charged under was from the 1860s, where it had remained unchanged, and was now so antiquated that it made no sense given modern medical technology. The jury dismissed the case after being given instruction by the judge that was so narrow that the only possible result was find them innocent.

And that's just Queensland. Here in WA for almost a 100 years the law on the books stated that abortion was only legal where the mother's life is at risk, and so the police and doctors get around it by noting that an abortion is safer than a pregnancy for the mother, therefore every abortion is reducing the risk to mother and therefore every abortion is legal. A law was brought in in the late 90s that allowed abortion on request under 22 weeks, and after that only if the mother's life was in danger. The ridiculous thing is that law changed nothing about how abortion operated - because of the loophole in which abortion is safer than pregnancy.

Point being, 300 million or 20 million, you're going to get differing views. Once you get to two people you're going to get differing views. And once you get differing views you get a messy legal compromise.

And the next point being, like H.B.M.C. said, we just focus on other things. Jobs. Economic development. Decent, effective regulation of major industry sectors like banking. I mean, hell, over here interest rate increases and decreases are front page of the newspaper kind of stories. The nonsense that fills up so much of the public debate in the US (guns, abortion etc) just doesn't factor in to our debate. Those issues basically aren't fixable, so get on with working on the stuff that you actually can fix.

Not that I just want to wave the flag about Australia. We have our own stupid nonsense that fills up a lot of the public debate space (refugees, sharks etc).



*Like your country criminal law is a state matter, unlike your country we never had a federal court rule on abortion, and as such abortion is a state by state matter.

Interesting Seb...

Yea, 300 million or 20 million... no one would agree the same way.

Absolutely agree with your "...so get on with working on the stuff that you actually can fix." line. Right now, I feel like my face palming move is getting a lot of practice lately.