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No new spearmen or archers means none of my money. They're still the core of the army (literally) and are some of the worst models still available in the range. The Archers especially look like blockheads and not like Elves at all.

Maybe if they make taking Archers worthwhile I could be convinced to proxy Wood Elf Glade guard to fill out the core along with some of those excellent Island of Blood Sea Guard.

Still, this disturbing habit of GW releasing new shinies instead of replacing their crappy old kits is annoying. They need to realize they'll sell a lot more boxes of spears/bowmen per army than they will a 0-2 choice of chariot/monster thing.

Yeah, same thing happened to Tomb Kings- they got some really lovely new kit, but their core (all of it!) is languishing in "kinda awful" land. Chariots, cav, warriors/archers are all just pretty bleh.

Given that the models making up the core in any army are the only ones you're guaranteed to need, it surprises me when they let sculpts for core units that are noticeably showing their age go un-updated.

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Yeah, same thing happened to Tomb Kings- they got some really lovely new kit, but their core (all of it!) is languishing in "kinda awful" land. Chariots, cav, warriors/archers are all just pretty bleh.

Given that the models making up the core in any army are the only ones you're guaranteed to need, it surprises me when they let sculpts for core units that are noticeably showing their age go un-updated.

I would love to get into Tomb Kings. They have so many nice models, but when I looked at the core I just stopped. It completely turned me off from the army. This almost happened to me with High Elves, but I loved the Swordsmasters and Phoenix Guard too much to give up on the idea of Elves.

furbyballer wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Used to be same WS as Swordmasters, same BS as champions, immune to psycology when with the Everqueen and a few other tricks.

Ithilmar armour, longbow and spears

With everything else that we are rumored to get, I can't see them actually fully returning to their former gloriously awesome selves. If they give us a ws6, bs5, magical bows, 4+ AS, spear unit that is also unbreakable and has martial whatever special ability? That is just so OP im not even letting myself think it could happen. If it does, then I will eat my own foot and cheer like everyone else.

No magical weapons but a couple of useful magical items - horn and standard. OH and a 4++ save as well

If they are coming out - well they are a "new" unit so need lots of cool stats to sell..................

 Red_Zeke wrote:

Given that the models making up the core in any army are the only ones you're guaranteed to need, it surprises me when they let sculpts for core units that are noticeably showing their age go un-updated.

Mainly because it's a gamble on sales. If you update them and people don't like the new look (possible) or the price (incredibly likely), they're not going to replace their existing collection. This means noticeably fewer sales as only new players and a handful of vets would buy them. If they are nice and older players want to fully replace their collection they might sell the old ones to someone else, which most companies (usually erroneously) view as a lost sale since this other player didn't buy the models new.

Conversely, all-new units, even if you only need one or two, are usually a much better overall sales volume as everyone who plays the army will want one if the rules are good enough. GW does not hide this is how their operation works; they write rules to move models. The lower per-player volume also makes new kits a much safer option as they can produce less and still be well-stocked while new core units require heavy production and may or may not sell. The Tau release shows they don't get it right, but that's the theory. They would rather sell 1-2 kits to a fairly steady 60-70% of an army's fans than roll the dice on selling 5-6 to a smaller, widely variable percentage.

Does this mean new core units wouldn't sell as well? Of course not; I'd buy up a bunch myself if they looked nice. That "if" word in there, however, means a risk. Could GW easily remove a lot of the problems through things like longer pre-order windows and the like, sure, but they have shown they won't do those things so the scales remain weighted towards the new shiny instead of updates to existing.

With everything else that we are rumored to get, I can't see them actually fully returning to their former gloriously awesome selves. If they give us a ws6, bs5, magical bows, 4+ AS, spear unit that is also unbreakable and has martial whatever special ability? That is just so OP im not even letting myself think it could happen. If it does, then I will eat my own foot and cheer like everyone else.

Sure, they could make that unit. It would still be T3 and die in droves... not to mention costing something like 20 points per model.

Hopefully they don't all have the same heads in that mixed MG/SW box. While it's noble of GW to try to create mixed gender kits, there is just certain body difference between men and women.....period. The Dark Eldar Wyches look a little wierd with their "gender neutral" heads, and quite frankly, many of the models look like they've had a sex change one way or the other/tranvestites. And was there anything wrong with having an all female Wych unit?

I realize these are elves, and the politically correct folks will tear this comment apart, but please make male models and female models seperately. They are always gonna look slightly funny when their parts are suppose to go either way. Heads in particular HAVE to be made gender specific if you want these things to look right. Or, make all the Shadow Warriors females. OR have them use one or two of the same sprues (arms, legs accesories), but make a seperate sprue for each (bodies and heads) and package them differently. That way we don't pay for stuff we don't want, you can save on a sprue, and we all save $5 on a kit.

Comment on this artwork for Warhammer Online Shadow Warriors:

Harry wrote:That looks a lot like something that was described to me.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Hopefully they don't all have the same heads in that mixed MG/SW box. While it's noble of GW to try to create mixed gender kits, there is just certain body difference between men and women.....period. The Dark Eldar Wyches look a little wierd with their "gender neutral" heads, and quite frankly, many of the models look like they've had a sex change one way or the other/tranvestites. And was there anything wrong with having an all female Wych unit?

I realize these are elves, and the politically correct folks will tear this comment apart, but please make male models and female models seperately. They are always gonna look slightly funny when their parts are suppose to go either way. Heads in particular HAVE to be made gender specific if you want these things to look right. Or, make all the Shadow Warriors females. OR have them use one or two of the same sprues (arms, legs accesories), but make a seperate sprue for each (bodies and heads) and package them differently. That way we don't pay for stuff we don't want, you can save on a sprue, and we all save $5 on a kit.

Sounds sensbile - although if for whatever reason they are mixing Sahdow Warriors and Maiden Guard - then you would expect them to be mainly female? I would want some of the Shadow Warriors to be male - unless some of the "Maiden Guard" are going to be part of a Everqueens "harem" of males - I know she can take lovers as her relationship with the Pheonix King is merely Spiritual/ political and to create children but still.................

on the subject of Dark Eldar and sex changes - well its not unlikely given the DE nature...

 Mr Morden wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
Hopefully they don't all have the same heads in that mixed MG/SW box. While it's noble of GW to try to create mixed gender kits, there is just certain body difference between men and women.....period. The Dark Eldar Wyches look a little wierd with their "gender neutral" heads, and quite frankly, many of the models look like they've had a sex change one way or the other/tranvestites. And was there anything wrong with having an all female Wych unit?

I realize these are elves, and the politically correct folks will tear this comment apart, but please make male models and female models seperately. They are always gonna look slightly funny when their parts are suppose to go either way. Heads in particular HAVE to be made gender specific if you want these things to look right. Or, make all the Shadow Warriors females. OR have them use one or two of the same sprues (arms, legs accesories), but make a seperate sprue for each (bodies and heads) and package them differently. That way we don't pay for stuff we don't want, you can save on a sprue, and we all save $5 on a kit.

Sounds sensbile - although if for whatever reason they are mixing Sahdow Warriors and Maiden Guard - then you would expect them to be mainly female? I would want some of the Shadow Warriors to be male - unless some of the "Maiden Guard" are going to be part of a Everqueens "harem" of males - I know she can take lovers as her relationship with the Pheonix King is merely Spiritual/ political and to create children but still.................

I'm thinking the only way that can work is 10 backs, 20 chests, 20 heads in each box. But the more I think about it the more I am wondering why they would make it a double box, the only thing they seem to have in common is that they are humanoids.

I couldn't see the point of doing so either - but then I am operating on one poster saying it was thus and using current rather than any "new" fluff that they may invent.........

I am really looking forward to how they reintroduce the new fluff since maiden guard and the everqueen where given little to no coverage in the last codex., except in the the tyrion fluff.

Here is hoping the maiden guard actually look like women..

 Kirasu wrote:
Here is hoping the maiden guard actually look like women..

+1

I also hope the female parts aren't too unique in their design as we are always getting told that HE mobilise warriors of both genders yet we have no female archers, spearman, princesses and only a really ugly metal Mage. Here's hoping we can kit ash the maiden guard to make all of these!

I was sorta hoping they'd also change the name of the maiden guard to something that doesn't conjure up the cliche idea that only virginal women who remain chaste are sought after for prestigious roles. It's not like the Everqueen is chaste so what's up with the name Maiden Guard?

Perhaps the Everqueen is just selfish and cruel to her guard.. she wants to be the only one able to have a male consort.

Poor Finubar

It could always be a historic throwback to origins of the unit when they were all young women - maiden doesn't necessarily mean 'virgin'

 pities2004 wrote:
Poor Finubar

You mean "Poor Tyrion" surely. Finubar and Alarielle's ritual 1 year marriage is long past. Tyrion is her current consort.

I wonder if Tyrion is still held in such high regard now that suddenly his ward save and regen don't work together! He must be a weaker champion because of conflicting magic items.

furbyballer wrote:
I am really looking forward to how they reintroduce the new fluff since maiden guard and the everqueen where given little to no coverage in the last codex., except in the the tyrion fluff.

1.) It is armybook, not Codex.
2.) Everqueen and Maiden Guard are well represented in the current High Elf novels plus Warhammer Online. GW won't retcon this.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
Poor Finubar

You mean "Poor Tyrion" surely. Finubar and Alarielle's ritual 1 year marriage is long past. Tyrion is her current consort.

Yeah Tyrion gets to pound the turkey, but Finubar who is the Phoenix King of the high elves doesn't even have a model.

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Dwarfs - High King Thorgrim
The Empire - Emperor Karl Franz
Bretonnia - King Louen Leoncouer
Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard
Wood Elves - Orion
Warriors of Chaos - Archanon
Tomb Kings - High Queen Khalida
Ogre Kingdoms - Greasus
Chaos Daemons - Greater Daemons
Lizardmen - Lord Kroak
vampire counts - Manfred
Beastmen - Gorthor
Skaven - The Horned Rat?
Orcs and Goblins - Grimgor Ironhide
Chaos Dwarfs - For Legion of Azgorh it's Drazhoath the Ashen

Technically, the leader of the Skaven are the Council of 13(of which the Horned Rat is Member #13 symbolically).

So the Skaven are missing all 12 of their rulers.

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Isn't this because he's neither a wizard nor a warrior? High Elves choose gardeners and painters as kings every now and then

Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard

There's your Phoenix King who is both a wizard and a warrior

 Therion wrote:

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Isn't this because he's neither a wizard nor a warrior? High Elves choose gardeners and painters as kings every now and then

Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard

There's your Phoenix King who is both a wizard and a warrior

Finubar was a sea captain and explorer/tradesman from Lothern(first Phoenix King from that city).

As such, he's not exactly NOT a military mind. Not sure of any fluff about him personally in battle though.

 pities2004 wrote:
vampire counts - Manfred

Debatable. He's the last of the Sylvanian Vampire Counts, but not the 'leader' of the Vampires. That would be Neferata, the Queen of Mysteries, sitting without a model or profile since about 3rd edition.

 -Loki- wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
vampire counts - Manfred

Debatable. He's the last of the Sylvanian Vampire Counts, but not the 'leader' of the Vampires. That would be Neferata, the Queen of Mysteries, sitting without a model or profile since about 3rd edition.

Queen Neferata isn't the leader of vampires though is she. She might be the original but her family line makes the Aenarion line look like a safe prime time sitcom. Vamps are only really out for themselves.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:
vampire counts - Manfred

Debatable. He's the last of the Sylvanian Vampire Counts, but not the 'leader' of the Vampires. That would be Neferata, the Queen of Mysteries, sitting without a model or profile since about 3rd edition.

Queen Neferata isn't the leader of vampires though is she. She might be the original but her family line makes the Aenarion line look like a safe prime time sitcom. Vamps are only really out for themselves.

She is the original Vampire and her primary bloodline is organised more effectively than the others. its well worth reading the novel there are also some really good character models that could be taken from it.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Isn't this because he's neither a wizard nor a warrior? High Elves choose gardeners and painters as kings every now and then

Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard

There's your Phoenix King who is both a wizard and a warrior

Finubar was a sea captain and explorer/tradesman from Lothern(first Phoenix King from that city).

As such, he's not exactly NOT a military mind. Not sure of any fluff about him personally in battle though.

Graham McNeill's latest two book series has him taking part in the battle defending Lothern from a Dark Elf invasion. He fights alongside Tyrion, and seems to be pretty skilled.

Remember, ALL High Elves are warriors, good ones at that. It's just a level of skill that seperates some from others.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Isn't this because he's neither a wizard nor a warrior? High Elves choose gardeners and painters as kings every now and then

Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard

There's your Phoenix King who is both a wizard and a warrior

Finubar was a sea captain and explorer/tradesman from Lothern(first Phoenix King from that city).

As such, he's not exactly NOT a military mind. Not sure of any fluff about him personally in battle though.

Thats why we have magic items, Finubar could wear Aenarions underwear and become a demi-god

 djones520 wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Therion wrote:

I might be mistaken but isn't Finubar the only leader of a warhammer race/peoples that doesn't have a model with a profile?

Isn't this because he's neither a wizard nor a warrior? High Elves choose gardeners and painters as kings every now and then

Dark Elves - Malekith the bastard

There's your Phoenix King who is both a wizard and a warrior

Finubar was a sea captain and explorer/tradesman from Lothern(first Phoenix King from that city).

As such, he's not exactly NOT a military mind. Not sure of any fluff about him personally in battle though.

Graham McNeill's latest two book series has him taking part in the battle defending Lothern from a Dark Elf invasion. He fights alongside Tyrion, and seems to be pretty skilled.

Remember, ALL High Elves are warriors, good ones at that. It's just a level of skill that seperates some from others.

What's really interesting is that Finubar is slated as the Phoenix King during the events of the game "Warhammer: Age of Reckoning". The Collector's Edition included an exclusive hardback comic collection called "Prelude to War" which actually depicts Finubar in a very interesting light.

He seems to be very adept at political manuevering, but more than willing to lead men in battle. He also seems to be a leader who is more than willing to listen to his subordinates, as he seemingly heeds Tyrion's council in regards to tactical situations.