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Well it's good to see that the High Elves were toned down at least *boggle*

Edit: I hope it's made up, but that's the Lore attribute I had heard spoken about over many forums, so I am thinking these might be right...

Banner of the World Dragon - Making a unit nearly completely immune to a majority of the Vampire Counts special attacks. Banshee's, Terrorgheist, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, anyone carrying a magical anything...

 Fenriswulf wrote:
Banner of the World Dragon - Making a unit nearly completely immune to a majority of the Vampire Counts special attacks. Banshee's, Terrorgheist, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, anyone carrying a magical anything...

Sod all use against cold steel though

True but as the VC are an incredibly synergistic list, you often rely on being able to deplete your enemies using combinations of magical attacks before engaging them in combat, or against foes you're currently engaged with.

As there is no other shooting attacks available that aren't magical, a big unit with that banner will be incredibly difficult to deal with. Tooled up Vamps with magical weapons will also be screwed, as well as potential heart freezing wraith special attacks.

Yay Matt Ward! If these things are actually true, you've done it again!

The more I look at the Shadow Warriors/Magic Bow eyeliner box, the less sense it makes. I can really only see two bits used between both units- the legs, and the capes.

Now, that means whoever designed these had to put a fair bit of work into designing both kits. There was a lot of tooling that had to be done on the molds, which is reportedly very expensive. What advantage does GW get by producing this as a combined kit? Is shelf space really at such a premium that it's better to make one box that can make a good-looking model and a mediocre-looking model than it is to make two smaller boxes that both make good-looking models?

I wonder if it's just that they did not expect those particular units to sell well?

That's about the only reasonable explanation I can think of, ala the Greatswords.

Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

 Fenriswulf wrote:

Banner of the World Dragon - Making a unit nearly completely immune to a majority of the Vampire Counts special attacks. Banshee's, Terrorgheist, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, anyone carrying a magical anything...

isn't the entirety of the Daemon army magical attacks?

Chad Warden wrote:

 Fenriswulf wrote:

Banner of the World Dragon - Making a unit nearly completely immune to a majority of the Vampire Counts special attacks. Banshee's, Terrorgheist, Hexwraiths, Mortis Engines, anyone carrying a magical anything...

isn't the entirety of the Daemon army magical attacks?

Hmm... that would be broken

 Sigvatr wrote:
Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

Why so serious?

 pities2004 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

Why so serious?

Got a tournament in about 2 weeks and if these rumors turn out to be true, we either gotta go for a sort-of emergency meeting to see if HE are over the top and we need to balance HE out or force players to use the old one for the next tournament if we can't figure sth. out. I, personally, am leaning towards the latter, but that's one of 5 opinions

...and we do not have any solid, valid information yet if these rules are true.

Dear God I hope that is all rubbish. OP magic, a terrible magic item selection, and ridiculous ward saves anytime you roll a dice.

Dear god, I just got this. High Elves get incredible Ward saves.

Get it? WARD saves.

suddenrealizationmeme.jpg

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear god, I just got this. High Elves get incredible Ward saves.

Get it? WARD saves.

suddenrealizationmeme.jpg

Nice. Matt Ward the megalomaniac? Gave everything ward saves just so that his name was repeated continuously in the army book!


/conspiracytheory

 Kanluwen wrote:
I wonder if it's just that they did not expect those particular units to sell well?

That's about the only reasonable explanation I can think of, ala the Greatswords.

The $50 price is likely the new "Special Choice" pricing that will hit us next month during GW's annual price hikes. Though the Chaos Forsaken were $50 also, so I hope this isn't a new "infantry" price.

On to the supposed rules. Couple things to remember, HE lost their D6 dice banner and there isn't any easy source of power dice or guaranteed casting anymore. These are T3 models and aren't exactly rock hard. You need the Phoenix Guard to reliably pull off the 3+ ward and then you have only a bunch of S4 attacks. They won't win combat easily. Worst, you need the mage in the unit get that 3+ ward and that means he is exposed. You can go wide to try to keep him out of combat, but then you dilute your rank bonus. As for the BotWD, it doesn't protect the unit against Purple Sun, Pit, Dwellers, or Final Transmute. None of those spells cause wounds. Someone who tries a death star Phoenix Guard unit with the banner will cry after running up against a Life Toad or Metal Tzeentch wizard. Also the banner doesn't protect you from hexes anymore.

*edit* Missed the Armor of Caeldor. So HE characters do have access to a 2+ save, but still 50 pts.

I never was on the "Matt Ward hater" bandwagon but this new book looks pretty much over the top again. Where are those good ol´ army book writers? My GW fanboi´ism got cracks for the first time in over 15years.

I think all the omg overpowered whining needs to wait until we actually see the book in action. To be fair most of Matt Wards books aren't super overpowered they just have gak lore designed to appeal to Mary Sue teenagers. It looks like the elite infantry has lost it's re rolls, BoH has been massively and justifiably toned down. It's hardly 7th ed daemons is it? Plus you think you've got a reason to cry over HE magic? Wait tip the Lizards get done in a month or two, its already been stated that theirs will be better.

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

Got my pre-order in with the Warstore. Will see how stock will be with this release.

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:
You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Erm ... he was credited for the 8th edition rulebook as well.

For those who hate the banner of the world dragon, you just need to run the banner of the world dragon-eater... also know as Mork's Warbanner.
100 points, gives me MR D6, and totally shuts off all your magic items in base to base.

World dragon is good, but you'll be running that on a T3 BSB with no other magic items.

Against armies that don't care about killing you with magic, it's a big point sink that is doing nearly nothing (hits from miscasts are magic, so it gives your wizards a 2+ from those miscasting hits).

-Matt

 Sigvatr wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

Why so serious?

Got a tournament in about 2 weeks and if these rumors turn out to be true, we either gotta go for a sort-of emergency meeting to see if HE are over the top and we need to balance HE out or force players to use the old one for the next tournament if we can't figure sth. out. I, personally, am leaning towards the latter, but that's one of 5 opinions

...and we do not have any solid, valid information yet if these rules are true.

Seriously, your going to alter an Army Book within a week of it being released, before it's even had time for people to play more then a handful of games on it?

I think your letting yourself get a bit to worried about these rumors right now...

 djones520 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

Why so serious?

Got a tournament in about 2 weeks and if these rumors turn out to be true, we either gotta go for a sort-of emergency meeting to see if HE are over the top and we need to balance HE out or force players to use the old one for the next tournament if we can't figure sth. out. I, personally, am leaning towards the latter, but that's one of 5 opinions

...and we do not have any solid, valid information yet if these rules are true.

Seriously, your going to alter an Army Book within a week of it being released, before it's even had time for people to play more then a handful of games on it?

I think your letting yourself get a bit to worried about these rumors right now...

He is just butt hurt for high elves Angry German kid is all grown up and playing warhammer. Would be stupid to dissect a book and outlaw units....

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

I hope your joking right? no your serious? Necrons AND GK were two of the most broken piles of you know what....I know, I play GK, and 6th Edition only made necrons that much more brutal. Your telling me that the French Bakery is a "balanced" list?

 quickfuze wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

I hope your joking right? no your serious? Necrons AND GK were two of the most broken piles of you know what....I know, I play GK, and 6th Edition only made necrons that much more brutal. Your telling me that the French Bakery is a "balanced" list?

Fantasy is not 40k and both games seem to be trying to go for more balanced army books/codices in their latest editions. These rumours don't sound fun BUT we haven't actually seen the army book yet. If people still want to complain a month after release then we'll have a problem.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

Please tell me you're joking. Please, for the love of the Emprah, tell me you're joking

 jonolikespie wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

 Rustbucket3437 wrote:

You do realize that the person that wrote the 7th ed. Deamon book was Mat Ward right? This is the first fantasy book that he's been allowed to write since then.

Yes I am aware that he wrote 7th daemons, which were a horrible mistake. However I don't think he writes op books on the whole. I would think that with the universal hate the 7th ed daemons book got he would have had a pretty strongly worded brief before writing this one. Fluff ignored his 40k books aren't particularly op the necron, BA books are pretty balanced and the GK book isn't too bad either. Sure I think the HE book is gonna be strong but it isn't like there are no counters for a s3 t3 army with no MC and only light war machines. It might mean some change will be required in local metas but countering new challenges is what list writing is all about.

I hope your joking right? no your serious? Necrons AND GK were two of the most broken piles of you know what....I know, I play GK, and 6th Edition only made necrons that much more brutal. Your telling me that the French Bakery is a "balanced" list?

Fantasy is not 40k and both games seem to be trying to go for more balanced army books/codices in their latest editions. These rumours don't sound fun BUT we haven't actually seen the army book yet. If people still want to complain a month after release then we'll have a problem.

Yeah and the last book that they let Matt Ward touch completely broke the tournament scene for an entire edition....look I am not condemning the book, and I really hope that he finds a way to keep teclis playable yet toned down enough to where he is not a completely neutered IC not reflective of his standing as one of (if not THE) most powerful mage in the warhammer world....but it doesnt matter whether 40k is or is not WHFB, Ward can feth up a game for years at a time.

 djones520 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 pities2004 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Come on guys, the rules are obviously made up. Else just go with one huge unit and give it a 4++ (or better) in round 2. What were Chaos Chosen again?

Why so serious?

Got a tournament in about 2 weeks and if these rumors turn out to be true, we either gotta go for a sort-of emergency meeting to see if HE are over the top and we need to balance HE out or force players to use the old one for the next tournament if we can't figure sth. out. I, personally, am leaning towards the latter, but that's one of 5 opinions

...and we do not have any solid, valid information yet if these rules are true.

Seriously, your going to alter an Army Book within a week of it being released, before it's even had time for people to play more then a handful of games on it?

I think your letting yourself get a bit to worried about these rumors right now...

The tournament will be held 1 week after the army book's release - I, personally, do not think that's enough time to get enough games in to make a proper and fitting verdict on its power level and determine whether it's balanced or not. I'd therefore vote for HE players taking part in the tournament to use the old army book.

Everyone else has certain rules / restrictions with his army, would you consider it fair if High Elves now were the only army book that is allowed to go in vanilla? I certainly do not.

 pities2004 wrote:


He is just butt hurt for high elves Angry German kid is all grown up and playing warhammer. Would be stupid to dissect a book and outlaw units....

Reported...and seriously, I'm a ref at a tournament. It's a competitive game, not one of your cute "Let's have some fun mates!" no rules, no competition, fun only games. It simply would not be fair to have everyone else go in restricted / with special rules and HE being the only one going in vanilla.

Just stick with the old book is the best solution imo. We did the same with the new tau dex. No need to go mad on that tho.

The general rule around here is no books less than a month old allowed at t tournaments. Gives everyone time to learn what everything does.