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Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Long story short, i wanted to try an army ive never used before, and guard seem interesting enough to fit the bill.
Only issue is, ive never actually picked up the IG codex, let alone read about units / structure of the army.

Ive decided to order the codex tonight, but also want to order a small 1k army to go with it so i can get painting and playing.
However, this is where i hit a dead end.
I dislike fliers, so dont want any valks and such, but i do really like the idea of a ton of armour.

Really looking for help building the base of an army (since i have no idea how the troops layout works here)
Just really want to get a nice, legal force ordered up so im good to go.
So, a few quick things:

1: Troops - May sound like a completely idiotic question, but how are these structured please?
Im hoping 10 guard in a chimera count as a troops choice, but i cant really tell all that much from peoples lists.

2: Manticore - i love the look of them, but im really thinking is they are effective enough, or if the russ variants are better?
Ive managed to find info on the deathstrike, so i know thats a bad idea anyway

Just generally need a good kick in the right direction for getting started please

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

I don't have the codex on hand so I could be wrong but here's what I know.

The Imperial Guard has a unique way of organizing their troops if you want to use normal infantry squads. Basically, it's not each squad that makes a single troops choice it's the whole platoon. Each platoon counts as a single troops choice on the FOC (Sorry for repeating myself, I just want to make myself clear) and each platoon is like a little FOC on it's own. You have to take a platoon command squad and two infantry squads minimum. Then you just expand from there with more infantry squads, conscripts, heavy weapons squads and special weapon squads.

The "Single squad in a chimera counting as a single troops choice" is called a MechVet squad. Veteran squads are basically regular infantry squads but they cost 20 points more, have a +1 Ballistic skill, counts as a single troops choice, can carry 3 plasma/melta guns and they have all other sorts of goodies.

I'd recommend you have the codex first so this can all be clear to you when you make up your army.


EDIT: Manticores. Manticores are very, very nice. They are a strength 10 spam weapon that can fire from quite a distance.

Russes are also nice but they lack the long range "Oomph" that artillery has. The main reason you'd want to take russes is because they are a cheap way to get AV14. In my opinion, the best ways to take russes are barebone demolishers and plasma sponson executioners. The reason I like demolishers so much is that they are basically a big fire magnet. People want these suckers dead and it takes some work to do it. All the focused firepower that goes to them isn't used to cream my troops. You could argue that people would ignore them, but if they do you'll have S10 AP 2 pie plate goodness. Executioners are good because they spam Plasma like no other.

On the other hand, another school of thought (Ailaros has pimped these out and has had moderate success) is to use Russes as basically AV14 heavy weapons squads. Kit out non ordnance tanks with sponson multimeltas/hull Lascannon (Or whatever weapons you'd like).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 16:41:17


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 Jackal wrote:
Long story short, i wanted to try an army ive never used before, and guard seem interesting enough to fit the bill.
Only issue is, ive never actually picked up the IG codex, let alone read about units / structure of the army.

Ive decided to order the codex tonight, but also want to order a small 1k army to go with it so i can get painting and playing.
However, this is where i hit a dead end.
I dislike fliers, so dont want any valks and such, but i do really like the idea of a ton of armour.

Really looking for help building the base of an army (since i have no idea how the troops layout works here)
Just really want to get a nice, legal force ordered up so im good to go.
So, a few quick things:

1: Troops - May sound like a completely idiotic question, but how are these structured please?
Im hoping 10 guard in a chimera count as a troops choice, but i cant really tell all that much from peoples lists.

2: Manticore - i love the look of them, but im really thinking is they are effective enough, or if the russ variants are better?
Ive managed to find info on the deathstrike, so i know thats a bad idea anyway

Just generally need a good kick in the right direction for getting started please


You unfortunatley can't just have 10 guardsmen and a chimera for a single troops choice, they are arranged in platoons of men.
You can make them into veterans, however, who can take special weapons, chimeras, and each ten-man unit is one troops choice.

Armour is excellent in IG - consider bringing in a manticore tank to really feth up your enemy (It's a chimera with four feth huge rockets on it's back).
Manticores have a total of four shots (They'll die by turn three or four anyway), with this:

Range: 24"-120" _ Str: 10 _ AP: 4 _ Ordinance Barrage D3, Large Blast.

Fun tank

Maybe a Leman Russ (Best looking tank ever IMO).
Can be made into several variants (You'll need the codex to figure out your preferences).

Getting 3 chimeras, two boxes of guardsmen, a CCS and a couple of decent-looking tanks should be a great start

And don't forget that IG squadron all their vehicles - You can have 9 FA vehicles and 9 HS vehicles in the same force organisation
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Excuse my language, but i now feel like a dick after seeing what ive been missing out on all this time

So, my understanding is troops choice:

Command squad
unit 1 (10 men)
unit 2 (10 men)

That would make a bare minimum troops choice in the army.

Or, i could run 10 men with 3 special weapons in a chimera and call them vets as a single troops choice.

This seems quite amusing to me

So in theory, i could do something like this as a legal list:

HQ: Command squad
Chimera

Troops: 10 vets: 3 meltas
Chimera

Troops: 10 vets: 3 meltas
Chimera

Heavy: 2 Manticores

That would be a basic start for me.


Also, another few questions if people could help out please

1: Sentinals - Being an eldar player, i like my warwalkers, do these function roughly the same, or are they a waste of points in an army? (my army will be armour heavy)

2: Kasrkin and stormtroopers dont have a profile on the GW website, do they actually have unit entries and are they of any use?
They look pretty damn good

3: If i were to go with the troops heavy list, i know the rough layout now, but what options are there please?
I know its a command squad and 2 units for min choice, but heavy and special squads were mentioned.
How many of each can be added please?
Seems like a huge gunline could be pretty amusing to play


Also, thanks for the replies so far guys

   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 Jackal wrote:

1: Sentinals - Being an eldar player, i like my warwalkers, do these function roughly the same, or are they a waste of points in an army? (my army will be armour heavy)

2: Kasrkin and stormtroopers dont have a profile on the GW website, do they actually have unit entries and are they of any use?
They look pretty damn good

3: If i were to go with the troops heavy list, i know the rough layout now, but what options are there please?
I know its a command squad and 2 units for min choice, but heavy and special squads were mentioned.
How many of each can be added please?
Seems like a huge gunline could be pretty amusing to play


Also, thanks for the replies so far guys


1) Having never personally used sentinels, I'm not sure as to their effectiveness, but if you're looking to mount an extra lascannon onto what I can only describe as a "Distraction" unit that will help take fire off your main tanks/troops, then they're the way to go.

2) Storm troopers do IIRC, but Kasrkins do not. (No idea why). Either way, they're good short range troopers, most often used as drop infantry.

3) Here's the make up of an Infantry Platoon:

1 Platoon Command Squad
2-5 Infantry Squads (ten men each)
0-5 Heavy Weapons Squads (A base of two men + a Lascannon/Heavy Bolter/Autocannon/Mortar/Missile Launcher)
0-2 Special Weapons Squads (6 men with three special weapons)
0-1 Conscripts Squad (20-50 men, weaker + cheaper than a guardsman)

--That's just one troops choice

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 18:23:49


 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

feth, thats a unit 0_o
I'd be interested in the heavy weapons squads simply for missile spam.

Ok, thanks for the input on them
Hoped they would work like warwalkers (minus guide and doom lol)

Shame, might have to run kasrkin as storms instead.
Amazing models

   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




Places

If you looking into a mech list then I can help --

The core of your army is going to be veteran squads , at 2k points I run 5 ( 3 in chimeras , 2 in vendettas ) which are kitted with special weaponry that is highly meta dependent , a common thing I see is 5 vet squads and an infantry platoon to provide some numbers ( 80ish models alone ) Now for your head quarters a company command squad with a chimera is almost an auto take however other combinations do work ( Primaris Pysker with a vet squad and x3 Grenade launchers ) once you have a solid base of troops and an HQ. then you move onto the fun part of the IG codex ( Heavy Support , Fast attack ect. ) you need to kit your army for your meta ( local players ) With my MEQ/ Mech meta I run my Leman Russ Vanquishers ( AT variet ) with plasma cannon sponsons and a foward lascannon , where as a player who fights hordes may take a punisher fully loaded with bolters - In the current addition the imperial guard have the absolute best flyer in the game ( vendetta for AT , Valkyrie for horde ) use it while its at your disposal , use your codex to its fullest extent don't handicap yourself . ---- Stormtroopers are hugely based on your meta , I use them because of my MEQ heavy meta ( AP3 rifles ) and there absolutely amazing special rules ( personal favorite is airborne one ) Sentinal are only really useful in a competitive environment when they are out flanking with lascannon a to get side and rear armor . Personally i think even with the hit to vehicles with glaceing Mech guard is still the most competitive build

Motto of the Imperial Guard " If its worth bringing one its worth bringing three"
y

 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






There are a few tips I can give you for starting "armored" IG.

1. Avoid ordnance russes (except demolishers).

2. Avoid sentinels. They are oh so easy to kill, and scream first blood. I use them on occasion outflanking (so they aren't first blood) to back up Captain Al' Rahem. Keep them cheap and they are an annoyance at best. The only other reason to take them is for a plasma cannon platform.

3. Get vendettas. Best flyer out there, and has a multitude of uses. There are tons of threads about them as well.

4. Don't fall for the bane wolf trap. They look good on paper, but the pitiful range makes them extremely vulnerable.

Another thing that most people won't recommend is to explore the primaris psyker. I find that typically veterans function well without constant orders, and rolling on biomancy can get you enfeeble, making lasguns and s3 vets okay against a variety of targets.

 
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

Kasrkin229 wrote:In the current addition the imperial guard have the absolute best flyer in the game ( vendetta for AT , Valkyrie for horde ) use it while its at your disposal , use your codex to its fullest extent don't handicap yourself . ---- Stormtroopers are hugely based on your meta , I use them because of my MEQ heavy meta ( AP3 rifles ) and there absolutely amazing special rules ( personal favorite is airborne one )


ghastli wrote:
3. Get vendettas. Best flyer out there, and has a multitude of uses. There are tons of threads about them as well.


Jackal wrote:
I dislike fliers, so dont want any valks and such, but i do really like the idea of a ton of armour.


Bro Tip: Read the OP's post before replying.
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






Selym wrote:
Kasrkin229 wrote:In the current addition the imperial guard have the absolute best flyer in the game ( vendetta for AT , Valkyrie for horde ) use it while its at your disposal , use your codex to its fullest extent don't handicap yourself . ---- Stormtroopers are hugely based on your meta , I use them because of my MEQ heavy meta ( AP3 rifles ) and there absolutely amazing special rules ( personal favorite is airborne one )


ghastli wrote:
3. Get vendettas. Best flyer out there, and has a multitude of uses. There are tons of threads about them as well.


Jackal wrote:
I dislike fliers, so dont want any valks and such, but i do really like the idea of a ton of armour.


Bro Tip: Read the OP's post before replying.




Missed that part lol. Well discount number three then, but you'll need an at least an ADL with gun or a hydra or two instead for flyer defense.

 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Virginia, USA

Despite the hate on the bane wolf I've actually had success with it, albeit the Hellhound is generally better.

I think most people forget the Banewolf/Hellhound has the Scouts special rule to close the distance.

Shas'O J'Osh  
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 Atheos wrote:
Despite the hate on the bane wolf I've actually had success with it, albeit the Hellhound is generally better.

I think most people forget the Banewolf/Hellhound has the Scouts special rule to close the distance.

Hmm.. I can see the Banewolf screwing a lot of MEQ infantry, assuming it can get there ofc.
Scout rule definitely improves the odds in favour of the wolf/chimera
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

Here is the problem... till you have a Codex, this /still/ means nothing because we can not give you the point costs for equipment and weapons. You can wait 3-5 days before you blow money on stuff for when your codex arrives, then make a list and we can help you then. Till then this feels more like you want a lot of info on how to make a list without getting a codex, all of which can get Dakka shut down.

Get Armybuilder and DL the trial that allows you to only make 3 units at a time. That will give you all the info you want if you can't wait. With the amount of money your talking about blowing (GW vehicles are fricking expensive), I think you can afford to have a codex sent to you to express mail or overnight.



Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

So its now against the rules on dakka to ask about how and where a good starting point for an army is?
Thats a new one for me i guess.

Even with the codex, im new to IG.
Never played them, and only played against them once or twice, so i was looking for general knowledge on the army, not asking for points costs etc.

   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

BlkTom wrote:Here is the problem... till you have a Codex, this /still/ means nothing because we can not give you the point costs for equipment and weapons. You can wait 3-5 days before you blow money on stuff for when your codex arrives, then make a list and we can help you then. Till then this feels more like you want a lot of info on how to make a list without getting a codex, all of which can get Dakka shut down.

Get Armybuilder and DL the trial that allows you to only make 3 units at a time. That will give you all the info you want if you can't wait. With the amount of money your talking about blowing (GW vehicles are fricking expensive), I think you can afford to have a codex sent to you to express mail or overnight.

So... How exactly is asking about where to start against Dakka's rules? If he wanted to get exact army information like points or stats, there are other ways to go.

Jackal wrote:So its now against the rules on dakka to ask about how and where a good starting point for an army is?
Thats a new one for me i guess.

Even with the codex, im new to IG.
Never played them, and only played against them once or twice, so i was looking for general knowledge on the army, not asking for points costs etc.

We knew what you meant, don't worry
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Im not worrying
Just get pissed that people actually bother to post on a topic without being of any use.
If i wanted troll or useless comments i'd be on warseer or B&C

Also, army builder is great, but for someone who knows nothing about the army, its useless haha.

   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




 Jackal wrote:
Im not worrying

Also, army builder is great, but for someone who knows nothing about the army, its useless haha.


This is true. I also recently got into IG. A friend was getting out of 40k and gave me a STEAL on his IG army. I have been tinkering with AB and IG but to no avail... its a lot harder to build a list for IG than anything else. Except for maybe Orcs.

6k+
3k+  
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut






Might seem obvious or useless in equal measure but why don't you look at other threads on dakka about the IG? i have seen 2 or 3 today about mech IG lists, (in this section of forum/thread thingo) the other suggestion is to look at the tactica section of dakka.

sorry to be so vague. and useless.

Note: ork armies are perhaps the easiest. why?? because of the amount of data to be found here on dakka of course
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

 Jackal wrote:
Im not worrying
Just get pissed that people actually bother to post on a topic without being of any use.
If i wanted troll or useless comments i'd be on warseer or B&C

Also, army builder is great, but for someone who knows nothing about the army, its useless haha.


Coming from someone with no codex, it is useless to help you, as everything we tell you means nothing to you. Dakka Dakka rules are to not list points for equipment. What good will it tell you a Vet squad is 155pts with a Chimera and 3 Melta guns. Do you know how much the melta is? The Chimera? The Vet squad? How can you really gauge what to get to 'get your head start' when you don't what to get?

Get the book, then we can talk... till then, this thread is more of a troll then anything. It is a pointless thread. I might as well say buy a bunch of dudes and hope you use them.

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in gb
The Last Chancer Who Survived




United Kingdom

 BlkTom wrote:
 Jackal wrote:
Im not worrying
Just get pissed that people actually bother to post on a topic without being of any use.
If i wanted troll or useless comments i'd be on warseer or B&C

Also, army builder is great, but for someone who knows nothing about the army, its useless haha.


Coming from someone with no codex, it is useless to help you, as everything we tell you means nothing to you. Dakka Dakka rules are to not list points for equipment. What good will it tell you a Vet squad is 155pts with a Chimera and 3 Melta guns. Do you know how much the melta is? The Chimera? The Vet squad? How can you really gauge what to get to 'get your head start' when you don't what to get?

Get the book, then we can talk... till then, this thread is more of a troll then anything. It is a pointless thread. I might as well say buy a bunch of dudes and hope you use them.
]The whole point was recommendations on what to get first, army building was a secondary objective to this thread.

The points were:
-Getting IG codex.
-What to get along with IG codex to put together while figuring out how to build the army.
-Speculating on the possible values of certain combinations.


And now you all know what this thread is for
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Tom, once again, when did i ask for points costs?
And you seem to be the only person here who cant grasp a simple point so im done wasting time with you.
Grow up, learn to be a little more polite or ignore things, then we may talk again at some point.


vyndetta85 - i know, ive managed to find that one out the hard way
Orks are no problem though, i can quite easily reel off every units and its points cost from the top of my head
Think i used them a bit too much.

Orkimedes1000 - I have checked the recent ones and run through the search for it, but its more along the lines of gameplay and how the army runs as a whole im looking for.
I know im settled with the idea of running vets now, but thats only after digging through several theads and having to search the units to make sure its not FW
(thats how little i know about IG)

   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

It's fine to discuss the army without giving the points costs. Though you will make better sense of things with the codex to hand.

Please everyone try to keep it friendly.

Thanks...

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

KK - Thanks
Ive now got the codex on order with 2 basic units, CCS and chimera x3.

Thats all i wanted to try and get at..

   
Made in ca
Stalwart Tribune






Basilisks deployed in cover can be good, Hydra flakk tanks (forge world) make great AA and Leman russ are very good, particularly the leman russ punisher that can put out 32 str 5 shots. I also recomend suicide comand squads with 3 melts in a chimera and missile launcher heavy weapons teams.


 
   
 
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