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 alarmingrick wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm not saying they are or they aren't recasts, I'm simply stating that I don't have enough knowledge to tell if they're recasts simply because I don't know enough about the cast itself (I had to look up that image that I linked) to be able to tell...

The one item he has with the resin cast stand makes me think yes, he might be recasting, the Chaos fighter makes me think he's not (because the offical FW model also comes with resin canopy glass), but again the void dragon makes me think he recasts because the official FW version doesn't come with that type of canopy (it doesn't have anything if I'm looking at this properly.

BUT we're not the ones to police people... That's GW's job...

While I agree wholeheartedly that we aren't the police, I also don't think there's anything wrong with saying "Hey, watch out, there's a cliff over there." either.

Yeah, if nothing else the guy is selling poor quality casts, whether they're forge world fails or recasts, I don't think it's bad to discuss that someone is selling poor quality casts. If I bought a Void Dragon and it looked like that I'd be on the horn to FW in an instant complaining about the quality, it looks horrible, the panel lines in some areas fade to almost nothing.

Even if we could be certain he is a recaster, discussing it does not equal either policing nor condoning it.

Im a professional mold maker in hollywood. Id say several of the items are recast, but not horrible ones. Giveaway signs are soft detail lines, look at pipes and areas that have very small raised surfaces. They arent as crisp as they should be for a true cast from forgeworld. And to the man who started this thread, some of us recast for personal projects and for a living(again I work in an FX house) Dont call us ilk if you dont even know who we are and what we do.

 MikeFox wrote:
Im a professional mold maker in hollywood. Id say several of the items are recast, but not horrible ones. Giveaway signs are soft detail lines, look at pipes and areas that have very small raised surfaces. They arent as crisp as they should be for a true cast from forgeworld. And to the man who started this thread, some of us recast for personal projects and for a living(again I work in an FX house) Dont call us ilk if you dont even know who we are and what we do.

But there's a huge difference between what you do and what he was trying to warn about, IMHO.

On wargames forums, recasting usually means making a mould from a model (not the original master) that is someone else's copyright in order to make illegal models.

Again, I don't want to seem like I'm defending this guy, since I am also unsure either way, but before anyone uses "solid" canopies as damning evidence; you do know that FW models often come with flashing so severe that all gaps on the model have a fairly substantial "screen" of resin in them, yes? Every single doorway in the Thunderhawk my mate got for his birthday had that.

And again, soft detail is no indication of recasting, I had to get three replacements for a DKoK weapon set I ordered because everything looked like melted wax on one side.

If you think someone is recasting, fine, tell FW so they can check it out, but I think it's bad form to go about accusing people publicly on exactly no evidence.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
On wargames forums, recasting usually means making a mould from a model (not the original master) that is someone else's copyright in order to make illegal models.

Well, when stuff pops up here for sale on Feebay that he's ripped off of FW then I'll rail at him. Until then, I can't see how he's done anything illegal Kk.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ouze is correct. It seems that one in every twenty resin gates I own has the "Games Workshop" logo on them.
The event models I own (Arbites Enforcer and Hound, Boarding Marine) both had them on a slant as well.

I know for a fact these are legitimate models and not recasts(D-Usa picked up the Arbites Enforcer+Hound for me from Adepticon of last year and the Boarding Marine was from Forge World directly, placed as a birthday present in a bits order I made for Deathwing shoulderpads), so I think that is pretty definitive.

Did you look at the Hell Blade and the Void Dragon? There's no way those are legitimate models unless Forge World made some 1 piece models with solid resin canopies. The Void Dragon also looks like a terrible cast, some of the lines and smeared as you would expect with a poor recast.

You're misunderstanding what he's saying. Kanluwen is saying the models he has for reference - the Enforce + hound, Boarding marine - are of known, legitimate provenance, while also having the GWS stamps on the gates. He's not saying anything about the auctions in question, other then that the GWS stamp of FW items is not unheard of.

I can confirm the Enforcer, and his little dog too, both have the GW stamp on their Jersey barriers.

 PanzerTC wrote:
Guys I can't take pictures and upload them from my house.

I have forwarded pictures to FW and I scanned them in at work and you can tell - huge chunks missing from the underside of the arms and bodies.

FW's QC slips sometimes - but if these are FW - they hired the lighthouse of the blind (no insult is intended towards these guys - they have jobs and a re trying to make a go of life) and or Homer Simpson to the inspection line.

FW has responded they will look into the matter.

I filed fake claims on these auctions and left negative. Funny thing is he has offered to buy them back - violating his own policy - along with a note not to threaten him. He is not familiar with the items, buts has dozens of recent sales.

The quality is so bad - he should be paying people to get these.

I'll post the pics as soon as I can find the cable for my camera to transfer them.

Do you not have a cell phone? Why can't you upload the same pics you sent to FW here?

 alarmingrick wrote:
I can confirm the Enforcer, and his little dog too, both have the GW stamp on their Jersey barriers.

Off topic, but I love that resin gates are being referred to as "Jersey barriers" in this post.

I cannot help you if this is an authentic or not

He says that in the ad, gives the game away pretty much for me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:
I can confirm the Enforcer, and his little dog too, both have the GW stamp on their Jersey barriers.

Off topic, but I love that resin gates are being referred to as "Jersey barriers" in this post.

Well, since I saw the cool terrain made with them, it just stuck!

Update: [color=green]The real world kept me from posting for a while. Ebay and Forgeworld have determined this guy is a recaster (and recasters are ilk) and he is under investigation/possible removal from ebay. It may not stop him from this – but it does disrupt his operation impact his sales. I was initially taken on this scam myself – but it did not sit right with me. I am not uploading some of the documents that would/could make a recaster smarter/better at faking things in the future. Some of the pics are not the best, but it is the best I can do for now.

Bottom line on this I was about 95% sure this was a recast job before I showed it to a friend who was visiting me and he worked for FW for some time. We discussed the incongruities at length and determined it was too high to ignore – plus the items were not of a good quality so it reduced the benefit of the doubt on the sellers part. He also stated 99%, because you never know, submit it to FW and Ebay.

Accusations are a serious thing – I ran several inconsistency models that I use for detecting fraudulent items/information. This case rated over 95% in all of the models and several were near 98%. Plus looking at the previous sales and dissecting this – the items in my auction came from 4 different sets and were mixed and matched. (I do not know if it was by intent or just what he was able to cast “good enough.”)

I have stock/investments that include Games Workshop – so I have a personal/economic dog in the fight. Plus there seem to be lots of delusions idiots deceiving themselves all the time that fake items are real – which leads the companies selling their items to raise their prices for whatever reason they choose to. (I’ll refer anyone who wants to know more about self-deception to the appreciate material to read if you want to avoid that trap.)

I am not a law enforcement agent, nor am I a lawyer. I am a soldier who has extension and diverse training in multiple fields for the military and the USG. Some of my specialties include denial and deception detection/investigation. I have worked Red Teams for the military and as a part of task forces for the USG targeting criminals/terrorists. I have created false documents to test security systems/procedures, detection of false documents/receipts/items in the Balkans, Middle East and Asia as well the U.S and the rest of Europe. I have limited casting experience beyond some small parts that I cannot purchase for some games – I see nothing wrong with this – but if I were to sell it/pass it off as real – then I would be a part of the ilk I refer to.

azreal13 wrote:Why would a recaster change the company name on the tab? Far more likely that the whole thing is recast with no changes (hence REcast) and that tab is exactly how it should be.

I think the Eldar flier is epic scale, and generally agree with Yodhrin that the pics look fine, but the description rings alarm bells.

Changing the tabs – reconfiguring the items make them more acceptable at a glance. While these are incongruities they are intended to repackage the item as a real – it has the tab/marking/provenance (someone else has had some training in fraud detection) that tries to make the item acceptable to the buyer. Like I said I was initially taken in by this auction because I was not near my real items to check against.

Howard A Treesong wrote:The problem with Finecast, is that it's often so ropey that you can't tell if it's a recast or not. The Gamesday example above, well I don't see what makes that a recast.

Also I think I've have FW stuff with 'gamesworkshop' on the tabs, not 'forgeworld', so that's not conclusive either.

You are right but this photo has the GW plate on the front, all the ones I have or have seen have it on the back. I have uploaded a picture of one in the pack I have.

Lovepug13 wrote:

 fire4effekt wrote:
Stuff looks good to me! Seems i have a new source.

It's clearly gonna end badly for you if you go this route, it looks like rubbish.......and it will e worse when it turns up on your door.

Do yourself a favour and just buy from forgeworld directly.......this guy should e shut down

Again some people are either delusional or they do not care about supporting criminal activities.

BewareOfTom wrote:I think the 20 day handeling is a big heads up too :/

I have people who send me stuff from all over the world – 20 days to get me an item is not unreasonable – but I get your point and will look out for future wording that may be another incongruity to check on.

Mr. Burning wrote:

I'm a re-seller and NOT familiar with the game this item concern, so I cannot help you if this is an authentic or not. I try to take good pictures as possible, so look closely to the picture because what you see is what you will get.

It comes without any base(s) or original packing.

Caveat Emptor

You are right – but I have gotten some really good deals on real FW/GW that people were not familiar with the items – I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt – he tripped himself up after that.

progreen10 wrote:I thought the strike fighter looked legit... then I noticed a grey resin flight stand -_-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forgeworld-AVENGER-STRIKE-FIGHTER-/310641330853?pt=Games_US&hash=item4853aa8aa5

This was another among many inconsistencies after he had more that the one auction up when I bid.

timd wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Nice tank traps, Ouze . Good use of what is otherwise waste.

Can't imagine why FW leaves the gates on the models. Absolutely dumb... Might use less labor, but it makes it a LOT easier for a recaster to copy a piece.

Tim

In discussions with some of my friends (including the foremr FW employee) – this is purely a lazy mental issue that GW/FW have in regards to their products. He explained this is partly why Mantic clips all their pieces and then bags them. I’m not aware of mantic as much as I am about GW – but so far my Mantic stuff has all been clipped from the sprues So I think it is a reasonable assumption if nothing else.

Blackmoor wrote:

 PanzerTC wrote:

FW's QC slips sometimes - but if these are FW - they hired the lighthouse of the blind (no insult is intended towards these guys - they have jobs and a re trying to make a go of life) and or Homer Simpson to the inspection line.

So what you are saying is that you are not 100% sure that these are fakes?

Why even bother? This is GW's job and they seem like they are a little too good at IP enforcement.

So what you are really doing is:
#1. Accusing someone of re-casting who might not be.
#2. Giving free advertisement to this guy so people will see these items and buy them.

Refer to the above – are you always 100% percent sure in everything you do? I doubt it - my past experience with bad people, my training and the results have proven me to be right. He is recasting obviously at this point, warning people is a double edged sword – some were wise and avoided him – some are delusional criminals. Apathy seems to be rampant in the world. I talked with a mod before I even posted this - I understand why Dakka does not have a running link of recasters - too many people of low-questionable would shop with them.

Alfndrate wrote:I'm not saying they are or they aren't recasts, I'm simply stating that I don't have enough knowledge to tell if they're recasts simply because I don't know enough about the cast itself (I had to look up that image that I linked) to be able to tell...

The one item he has with the resin cast stand makes me think yes, he might be recasting, the Chaos fighter makes me think he's not (because the offical FW model also comes with resin canopy glass), but again the void dragon makes me think he recasts because the official FW version doesn't come with that type of canopy (it doesn't have anything if I'm looking at this properly.

BUT we're not the ones to police people... That's GW's job...

I guess some people are of good moral/ethical character and others are content to sit back and let everyone else call in the fires and car accidents, bank robberies, murders, etc. I'm glad you are not my neighbor. BTW some of the bs justification on higher costs of items (that are prone to coutnerfitting) gets tied back to prevention of IP theft.

Alfndrate wrote:I agree, but the open not only said, "hey there is a cliff over there." He also called the local department of transportation to let them know drivers might be falling off the cliff.

It's a good thing.he did inform us about this bit.its not our job to call forge world... but different strokes and what not.

I think it’s more like I called the DOT and told them some j@ck@$$ built a fake bridge/toll booth and some people are going to be taken in by it and someone needs to take care of it. Again moral and ethics seem to be gone in our society. If someone sees a crime - they should report it. I guess some people like being ostriches or the devil's advocates too much.

MikeFox wrote:Im a professional mold maker in hollywood. Id say several of the items are recast, but not horrible ones. Giveaway signs are soft detail lines, look at pipes and areas that have very small raised surfaces. They arent as crisp as they should be for a true cast from forgeworld. And to the man who started this thread, some of us recast for personal projects and for a living(again I work in an FX house) Dont call us ilk if you dont even know who we are and what we do.

The pics are pretty average - the items received not so much. As I and others have explained – recasting for personal/professional use/work like FX is different from “recasters” who steal IP, sell fraudulent items (without disclosing the items are not genuine) (*corrected section starts) and their ilk – thieves, scumbags. (*corrected section ends) You seem to be reading too much into what I wrote.

I have sent information/stubs/items to FW as they have requested (as has Ebay). Some of the pictures are not the best – I sent those to FW/Ebay. I have tried to show a comparison of these items, the bad ones are in gray. I do not have the original photos of what I scanned in at work. Some will continue to delude themselves and give benefit of the doubt to this thieving recaster.

Is the figure in the blister supposed to be a recast? That's what finecast actually looks like.

The rest of it... well Forgeworld stuff does have huge trees and sprue attached to it like that. Also, what are the blurry pictures trying to show? You know if they are blurry your end when you upload them, they are blurry on ours as well right? Take proper photos if you're trying to convince people of anything.

 PanzerTC wrote:
Refer to the above – are you always 100% percent sure in everything you do? I doubt it - my past experience with bad people, my training and the results have proven me to be right. He is recasting obviously at this point, warning people is a double edged sword – some were wise and avoided him – some are delusional criminals. Apathy seems to be rampant in the world.

1.) I can tell because of the pixels, and from seeing quite a few shops in my time

2.) Shopping with someone who may, or may not, be an recaster doesn't make you a "delusional criminal", and that's a real jerky thing to say.

I think he's probably a recaster as well, but you know, let Ebay and/or GWS deal with it, you don't need to put on your blue and red tights here and fly around the room about it. Just posting the warning was adequate IMO and even then maybe not since of course you've probably steered some delusional criminals customers to him via the link.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Is the figure in the blister supposed to be a recast? That's what finecast actually looks like.

The rest of it... well Forgeworld stuff does have huge trees and sprue attached to it like that. Also, what are the blurry pictures trying to show? You know if they are blurry your end when you upload them, they are blurry on ours as well right? Take proper photos if you're trying to convince people of anything.

If you read the first message I posted, there is a link to the Recast Special Edition contrasting it with the real photo shows inconsistencies. The picture I put in is an in the blister – real/genuine Special Edition model with the marking on the back as opposed to the link picture which IIRC is on the front of that one. I bought a few of these for me and friends deployed to Afghanistan from a few of the Games Days in Europe last year.

I am limited on the photos to the camera I had on hand that can upload to a computer on hand and send. I admitted from the start some are better than others and that they were average at best.

Also – the words and the markings I placed over the photo are missing from what is presented. The markings indicate the real items and fake – “the circle here is real FW item, this other one is not under this circle.” This pour marking indicates a double/split indicating a mold made from an issued/purchased real item. I’m not sure as I saved them as pictures from powerpoint (which may also lead to some degradation. I only have the powerpoint copies with me on my working computer – the originals are on my home computer. Some of the really good ones I have not uploaded – on advice to prevent the seller from learning from his mistake. I have convinced the people who matter to me, FW and Ebay. Those here on Dakka, I tried to warn/inform of the presence of a bottom feeder. One of the keys/gates/jersey barriers has been heavily modified for the grave chute/my FW copy is not like this – another incongruity. If I get home anytime soon I will try to upload the originals (there are about 300 taken in various lighting and resolution) in to something like photobucket and include a link to them.

The contrast of material is the best thing that the pictures show – I’ve resized them to upload to Dakka. I cannot access any of the online photo servers. I cannot show adequately the greasy/oiliness of the product received.

Ouze wrote:

 PanzerTC wrote:
Refer to the above – are you always 100% percent sure in everything you do? I doubt it - my past experience with bad people, my training and the results have proven me to be right. He is recasting obviously at this point, warning people is a double edged sword – some were wise and avoided him – some are delusional criminals. Apathy seems to be rampant in the world.

1.) I can tell because of the pixels, and from seeing quite a few shops in my time

2.) Shopping with someone who may, or may not, be an recaster doesn't make you a "delusional criminal", and that's a real jerky thing to say.

I think he's probably a recaster as well, but you know, let Ebay and/or GWS deal with it, you don't need to put on your blue and red tights here and fly around the room about it. Just posting the warning was adequate IMO and even then maybe not since of course you've probably steered some delusional criminals customers to him via the link.

In response to comment 1 – while a valid argument some inherent trust needs to be employed – I doubt the majority of Dakka users intend to lie/mislead. I’ve not shopped anything and have compared the fakes to real FW – some of the photos I have not uploaded. I took them when I could – sent the proof/evidence off to FW for their action. His “possible” fingerprints were all over a key.gate/jersey barrier that had been overly puttied. I tried adding several photos from my current location but have had to resize the pictures for upload.

In response to comment 2 - The Delusion Criminal comment is dead on. It is not being jerky – it is possible to add/ask for some more clarification. Some of the people are delusional criminals (I refer to Whaley for delusion the Typology I will add)– those who intentionally deceived themselves and purchased from this criminal after they had been warned about him. I never stated all people who dealt with him are/were criminals. I felt bad about being duped by the seller, at worse I think I am an unwitting accomplice to criminal activity. I felt angry enough to actually do something about it instead of nothing. Either from doubting me, admittedly it has taken time for pictures to be posted, or those refusing to see for themselves the now clear inconsistencies/incongruities of the seller (delusion – self deception). It is probably due to the rampant apathy (it doesn’t impact me and they get what they want for less money.

I think your comment about flying around in tights is a jerk thing to type. I can see that some may have misinterpreted it as an in your face - not the intent I had - just tried to keep it simple. I knew that some criminals would do business with the thief – but tried warning the rest of the community to avoid him. It is possible that others had been buying from him as well. If people do not listen/investigate on their own after a warning it is on them.

So what happens if FW sends him a letter to stop, or they're gonna go tell their mums, and eBay shuts down his shop? Have you actually done anything to prevent him from selling his wares? Nope!

In fact, he'll probably stick to the real world market for a bit, sell some things to get by, and then hop back on to eBay. Hell, we've seen similar actions with a guy who has scammed dakkanaut after dakkanaut...

Ok this is OT but the usage of "ilk" is driving me crazy. "their ilk" would mean "their like or their kind" it doesn't mean scumbags or criminals. although its usage is generally negative, it isnt a descriptor

/anal rant

 eohall wrote:
Ok this is OT but the usage of "ilk" is driving me crazy. "their ilk" would mean "their like or their kind" it doesn't mean scumbags or criminals. although its usage is generally negative, it isnt a descriptor

/anal rant

/thumbsup

Alfndrate wrote:So what happens if FW sends him a letter to stop, or they're gonna go tell their mums, and eBay shuts down his shop? Have you actually done anything to prevent him from selling his wares? Nope!

In fact, he'll probably stick to the real world market for a bit, sell some things to get by, and then hop back on to eBay. Hell, we've seen similar actions with a guy who has scammed dakkanaut after dakkanaut...

Guess what - I already acknowledged the impacts on doing business with this guy.

Yes I have done something:
1) Made it harder for him to get legit copies from FW to copy. He will have to work something out to work around it.
2) Ebay is now aware of his activities – future complaints will result in an inability to do business. If the apathetical like you do nothing then he will get away with more crap.
3) I have tried to inform one of the communities about him – if you are aware of a threat you can avoid it. But apathy and self induced delusion seem high here.
4) I have not posted his real name, but have put a few of the indicators as to his location, one of his user names here. If it becomes a trend it may help later to avoid guys making money off of honest gamers.
5) These things I have done may not stop him completely – but they impact him and cost him time, money, and cause frustration for him and give me a little joy in knowing I did the right thing morally and ethically.

Did you read my previous post before commenting?
I posted this out of sincere concern that someone else might fall afoul of this criminal just like another scumbag I was 95% + sure who was running a shady business - turns out I was right about him (at least in terms of the Dakka and several other communities).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/468034.page

eohall wrote:Ok this is OT but the usage of "ilk" is driving me crazy. "their ilk" would mean "their like or their kind" it doesn't mean scumbags or criminals. although its usage is generally negative, it isnt a descriptor

/anal rant

ilk, /ilk/, Noun, A type of people or things similar to those already referred to: "reporters of his ilk".
I used it as a noun to already refer to the words criminal, scumbag, and recaster. It is possible my placement is slight off – but oh well I type like I speak.

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk. It my opinion, just like your grammar rant is yours.

I am trying to post the Whaley Typology in this post. For some reason it is not pulling up without some serious blurring. I'll get it in ASAP.

I hope this posts well enough to be seen and understood.

 PanzerTC wrote:

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk.

Indeed. You can even dance if you want to.

"ilk" is just a group of people or things already referred to. It's a neutral term. "ilk" could refer to a good or bad group of people.

"I can't thank the moderators here enough, like reds8n and his ilk."

"I can't stand staplers, like Swingline and their ilk."

"I like country music singers, like George Jones and his ilk."

Thanks for agreeing with me. Just for the record -no where in any of my posts did I state that the word ilk meant good or bad. I understand the word and how to use it. It is getting off topic as the rant states.

1) Made it harder for him to get legit copies from FW to copy. He will have to work something out to work around it.

He can have a friend buy his stuff, this isn't much of an issue considering that many people, myself included hop in on FW orders to get free shipping

2) Ebay is now aware of his activities – future complaints will result in an inability to do business. If the apathetical like you do nothing then he will get away with more crap.

Change of name, change of username, creating an account under a different person's real name (I mean you're already aware of Three Stage Studios, so you know recasters just wait, change their name, etc.. and then go back out into the scene).

3) I have tried to inform one of the communities about him – if you are aware of a threat you can avoid it. But apathy and self induced delusion seem high here.

If he re-sets up shop with a different name, etc... and continues to sell his wares, how do I know if it's the same guy?

4) I have not posted his real name, but have put a few of the indicators as to his location, one of his user names here. If it becomes a trend it may help later to avoid guys making money off of honest gamers.

See my point for number 2.

5) These things I have done may not stop him completely – but they impact him and cost him time, money, and cause frustration for him and give me a little joy in knowing I did the right thing morally and ethically.

The last part of this point shows that there is no true altruism in the world. I mean you could have simply informed the people that can do something, not informed us, so we couldn't give him money for his stuff before he gets shut down, or keep an eye on his things when/if he returns. But you came out and said, "Look what I did, I found a recaster, and informed everyone, He's scum!"

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk. It my opinion, just like your grammar rant is yours.

I am trying to post the Whaley Typology in this post. For some reason it is not pulling up without some serious blurring. I'll get it in ASAP.

So recasters are people that have been referred to previously? We get that you're using ilk in a negative connotation, but it's annoying when you keep using it incorrectly...

Alfndrate wrote:

1) Made it harder for him to get legit copies from FW to copy. He will have to work something out to work around it.

He can have a friend buy his stuff, this isn't much of an issue considering that many people, myself included hop in on FW orders to get free shipping

2) Ebay is now aware of his activities – future complaints will result in an inability to do business. If the apathetical like you do nothing then he will get away with more crap.

Change of name, change of username, creating an account under a different person's real name (I mean you're already aware of Three Stage Studios, so you know recasters just wait, change their name, etc.. and then go back out into the scene).

3) I have tried to inform one of the communities about him – if you are aware of a threat you can avoid it. But apathy and self induced delusion seem high here.

If he re-sets up shop with a different name, etc... and continues to sell his wares, how do I know if it's the same guy?

4) I have not posted his real name, but have put a few of the indicators as to his location, one of his user names here. If it becomes a trend it may help later to avoid guys making money off of honest gamers.

See my point for number 2.

5) These things I have done may not stop him completely – but they impact him and cost him time, money, and cause frustration for him and give me a little joy in knowing I did the right thing morally and ethically.

The last part of this point shows that there is no true altruism in the world. I mean you could have simply informed the people that can do something, not informed us, so we couldn't give him money for his stuff before he gets shut down, or keep an eye on his things when/if he returns. But you came out and said, "Look what I did, I found a recaster, and informed everyone, He's scum!"

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk. It my opinion, just like your grammar rant is yours.
I am trying to post the Whaley Typology in this post. For some reason it is not pulling up without some serious blurring. I'll get it in ASAP.

So recasters are people that have been referred to previously? We get that you're using ilk in a negative connotation, but it's annoying when you keep using it incorrectly...

It is asinine to drive off topic over one word. If you others) feel I am using it wrong – get over it. I see posts on here filled with crappy writing/ideas jumbled.

You seem to mimic my acknowledgment of his possible practices in typing your responses, but you go into more detail. I tried to keep it short. How have you informed/educated me to something I am not aware of/have posted in some form.

In response to your points 1, 2 and 4:

How can the use of ilk be any annoying as you making the same points I already outlined in my statements? (Without going into huge detail.) It is like a really delayed echo that’s adds nothing new.
I already laid out the dirt bag recaster would the work around things in the points I made previous to your regurgitation in more detail in your statements.

In response to your points 3:

“If he re-sets up shop with a different name, etc... and continues to sell his wares, how do I know if it's the same guy?”

Hmm, I admitted that he would work around the system if possible. FW and Ebay are aware, future complaints make things difficult/impossible to do business, maybe giving up for a while/permanently.
Even if he continues to be a seller (Ebay or otherwise), he most likely mail/post out of Greece. Since he is most likely and independent (or member of a local recasting group – I found two near me by accident) changing his geographic/physical location is not likely to occur. This is a viable planning assumption, but not a fact.

He would continue employing deception that at first is not too noticeable until multiple incongruities/ inconstancies pop up/are identified. The bottom left side of the matrix, under other induced, lists how recasters deceive others and sometimes get past people by seeming to be a legit product. Again, viable planning assumptions, but not facts.

I’ve tried (and some others have too) listing/showing some of his links to point some of these out. Admittedly, I need to post/link in some better pictures. I have tried, but I’m limited to what I had on hand, and the time I had both before leaving for an assignment and for filing with Ebay.

The post of Whaley came out greyish and somewhat blurred instead of white and black with clear contrast as it showed on my screen before posting. I have some better photos at home and will post them later when I get a chance.

I admitted that I did not see the deception techniques listed. Maybe because he had one auction up, the translation from Greek to English could have been intentional or the case of a bad translation. There were other things I missed, maybe even refused to see/key in on. I had a suspicion, was very sure it was fake when I got them. I checked it out further, ran my tests and got an expert in FW products to offer his point of view which confirmed my own theory.

As to my point of delusional criminals – people who have been shown that something is false and refuse to see it are delusional (self deception). People who intentionally engage with criminals intentional are criminals themselves. People who accidentally deal with criminals, unwitting accomplices.

I knew that some people may have used this seller, but I felt the obligation of telling people beforehand would prevent/identify a recaster early on. If some else were to post about this seller and I were to chime in – there would be people typing things like “why did you not speak up earlier, particularly when you had proof or got Ebay to refund you?” Or even if I waited until after I got the money back, contacted FW and then posted the cry would be “Why did you not warn us earlier?” To many people are self-involved and think only of themselves, or how other will criticize them if they do something.

I’m very aware of how criminals, recasters and their ilk, act.
It seems you have trouble comprehending that and the point of trying to track/identify/inform/target/mitigate them.

One of my masters was on the topic of international organized crime and the pitfalls associated with those @$$clowns ruining perfectly legitimate businesses and banks through seemingly harmless acts/victimless crimes. Many people show apathy about avoiding known/suspected criminals because it requires they think and change some of their behaviors to avoid doing business with them.

As for your comment:

The last part of this point shows that there is no true altruism in the world. I mean you could have simply informed the people that can do something, not informed us, so we couldn't give him money for his stuff before he gets shut down, or keep an eye on his things when/if he returns. But you came out and said, "Look what I did, I found a recaster, and informed everyone, He's scum!"

You seem confused on your altruism point. I never laid claim to it being my motivation in posting this. I’ve been sincere, and honest about my point of view/tried laying out the facts as I can without more picture just yet.
al•tru•ism ; /ˈaltro͞oˌizəm/; Noun; 1.The belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others. 2. Behavior of an animal that benefits another at its own expense.
Synonyms: unselfishness

Did you not see/comprehend this part of the title that says.. Beware – Avoid? I never posted that this was altruistic in nature. I did post a warning out of a concern for others to avoid buying a product, I pointed out he was deceiving some people by his methods being employed. I asked others to look and report the items, to see if others had dealt with him, possible to report him as well (no one else admitted to so far). I’ve even tried to educate some that are delusional when it comes to the issue of recasters – though some will still refuse.

I have self interest in this case as I had money involved – both with the seller and through investments I have with FW. I stated my motivations; I have not deceived anyone or fabricated any evidence. I got busy and provided an update on the recaster as soon as I could.

I've found far more recaster than the two (although, the first one I thought was not a recaster – but that something was wrong with the business practices) I have reported here. Rarely does one trip up as badly as this one did and gives me an abundance of proof to act upon.

I found three in the last two months, but I have no way to do anything about two of them, posting about them will do nothing but drive customers to them in those cases. I have little tangible proof to offer either FW or Ebay in those cases either. Why waste time and end up frustrated? Why waste others time by crying wolf on something that will most likely not be proven to Ebay/FW? I have tried to pick and choose correctly, guided bymy moral and ethical codes.

In this case something could be done and I could warn others to avoid the jerk making money off of them and getting crappy recasts. My post was out of concern for the wargaming community, I know a trap has been laid other should be informed to avoid it. In order to inform others to avoid paying money too him, watch/act upon in the future if he pops his head to prevent another scumbag from ripping off the wargaming community at large.

So I got some moral and ethical satisfaction out of doing the right thing. Now I’m guilty of not being altruistic (never laid claim to this) just because I admit I felt vindicated and got some pleasure out of doing the right thing and seeing it work, hell that’s rare in this world.

The criminal is out the money he stole from me, the fake product has been sent to the right people to handle the case (if they do much/anything) and he has been identified to Ebay, FW and hopefully Dakka if there are future incidents. Which I believe will happen unless someone speaks out about it and or does something.

By the definition of altruism maybe I don’t meet number 1, not that I claimed to. I had an interest in the case. Maybe I meet number 2, maybe I don’t.

I did post this without expectation of wining the case with Ebay, getting FW to do something, hell maybe look like a guy who got deceived and has some knowledge of deception – kind of embarrassing. Other shave benefited from knowing about this – some to avoid –some to delude themselves/not care because they have little/no moral or ethical standards.

Hell your last comment makes me feel there is too much apathy/laziness/selfishness in you and some of the others in the community. Because I did something about a bad/selfish person, because I admit my motivation – that makes be a bad person or a hypocrite in some way.

It looks like you get satisfaction out of repeating things others type and trying to make a point from it as though they never thought of it themselves. You may want to reflect upon your own motivations before your call someone else’s into doubt.

If it sounds to good to be true, than it's too good to be true.

Since you wish for me to have an "original thought", here you go:

The reason why I seem lazy or apathetic is because it's not our job as the community to be the police when it comes to companies getting shafted. Three Stage Studios is a bit of a different thing because "Matthew Bonder" has scammed people, not corporations, not companies, or large business, but individuals. This entire thread could have been summed up with a single post: "Hey, this guy might be a recaster, just be a warning." And then you, in the quiet of your own life could have emailed eBay and Forgeworld, and just let it be. You see a recaster, a scumbag, a thief. I see a recaster, and a guy living in a country with less stringent copyright laws than the UK or the US. Would I buy from him? Probably not, but then again I don't use eBay very often.

My altruism comment was something that I had heard several years ago in college, where a professor had said that there is no true altruism in the world, because no man does something for the benefit of all with no hope of reward for himself, and this quote here is what triggered that comment:

and give me a little joy in knowing I did the right thing morally and ethically.

Which means that you didn't just do this to help the community, you did it for your own little pat on the back.

But the guy will get shut down temporarily, and he'll be back. Unless he's arrested, there's not much that can be done.
*shrugs* W/e I'm out

 kronk wrote:

 PanzerTC wrote:

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk.

Indeed. You can even dance if you want to.

You can also leave your friends and their ilk behind.

 Ouze wrote:
I think he's probably a recaster as well, but you know, let Ebay and/or GWS deal with it... Just posting the warning was adequate IMO and even then maybe not since of course you've probably steered some customers to him via the link.

I told Panzer that this was my take, too. People use recasters, Dakka does not support or condone it, but there's not much you can do about it. Posting links to their sales only gives them more business.

I say this as someone who has, obviously, posted links warning people about scams before. But if a person is selling recasts and delivering... there honestly is not very much you can do about it. Once (or if) they start to do something further, like not ship anything to someone who has paid, ebay or the like can step in. But there's not much you can do otherwise.

I personally have a few sellers I am keeping an eye on... but do not post the links on the forum for precisely the reason that Ouze mentioned above (not wanting to steer business their way).

 Breotan wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 PanzerTC wrote:

I'll use ilk if I want - recasters are ilk.

Indeed. You can even dance if you want to.

You can also leave your friends and their ilk behind.

Because your freinds recast,
And if ilk recast
Then they're no freinds of mine?