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Played a small 1500 point game today, Nurgle-CSMvs Ravenwing

CSM
HQ, Brand, LC, MoN
Troops
3 Plague Marines, 7 Man, PG, PF Champ, 2 Rhinos, Havoc Launcher
10 Cultists
Decimator, 2x Butcher Cannon
Obliterator
Helldrake
Havocs, 9man, 4x Autocannon

RW
Sammael
Lib, lvl 2 - got Invis and Shriek (I never fail to get invis...)
RCS, Banner
RCS
3 RAS
1 RAS, Melta
1 AB, Melta
1 Contemptor Mortis, Cyclone
1 Caestus Assault Ram (newly built, wanted to try out my baby!)

First turn RW alpha strike took out the lord and cultists, couple of bloody turns later on turn 4 all that was left on the table were the Contemptor, the Caestus, one Black Knight
on my side, two Rhinos with one hull point each on his and a Helldrake.

1. Decimators... BS3 is kind of weak. It's supposedly tough, but dies to a single melta shot.
2. Caestus: Ramming is extremely fun, and dropping that melta pie plate is great. It did scatter back and kill Sammael, however, so caveat user. Hmm, you can't hit yourself because you're a flyer though, have to remember that.
3. Contemptor Mortis: I had to run it stationary the entire game to Skyfire at the Helldrake, of which it didn't do great- my pen rolls were abysmal ( four turns of shooting, zero sixes from the Kheres cannon.. out of 40+ dice?.) Relying on sixes is just a little bit random. Cyclone upgrade was useful in making sure it could do something other than shoot in a 24" radius.
Bringing two is probably best.
4. Helldrake: Always a pain in the arse- killing two biker units a turn. I was hoping a single Contemptor could take it but now am more inclined towards two.

would the Castus be good to bring in some DW TH/SS termies?

the Caestus really doesn't synergise with this list much more suited to deathwing, replace it with another contempter + more ravenwing.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would the Castus be good to bring in some DW TH/SS termies?

It's practically unkillable by Quad Guns, so it's safe delivery system that will get your Deathwing Knights (way better) wherever they need to go for a guaranteed turn 3 assault.

Lascannon are still a threat, but it does get a 5+ cover save and you can ram whatever the lascannon is mounted on (or tank shock the person manning it.)

I know the Contemptor is better, but after dropping a hundred quid on this baby I had to use it! First time using a flyer as well, wanted to get a feel for the mechanics.

As much as I'd love to have a flyer as a terminator-delivery unit (I love the look of the storm eagle and caestus), I'm afraid to us them for that purpose.
It could very easily take as long as turn 4 for them to actually get to assault!!! No one can assault upon arriving from reserve (regardless of the flyer's speed mode).

If you want quick and effective terminator delivery system, stick with a Land Raider or Deathwing Assault.

As far as the Contemptor goes, I like the Kheres guns, and I've gotta say that you've had incredibly bad rolls to not pop the Helldrake! Range is usually the main issue but once you can shoot, not much will survive. You can always use a Lucius Drop Pod to bring them in close!

The Decimators can be really good shooting platforms if you give them the conversion cannons and tuck them in a corner.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

3. Contemptor Mortis: I had to run it stationary the entire game to Skyfire at the Helldrake, of which it didn't do great- my pen rolls were abysmal ( four turns of shooting, zero sixes from the Kheres cannon.. out of 40+ dice?.) Relying on sixes is just a little bit random. Cyclone upgrade was useful in making sure it could do something other than shoot in a 24" radius.
Bringing two is probably best.

2 Twin-Linked Lascannons on it is even better.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would the Castus be good to bring in some DW TH/SS termies?

It's practically unkillable by Quad Guns, so it's safe delivery system that will get your Deathwing Knights (way better) wherever they need to go for a guaranteed turn 3 assault.

Lascannon are still a threat, but it does get a 5+ cover save and you can ram whatever the lascannon is mounted on (or tank shock the person manning it.)

I know the Contemptor is better, but after dropping a hundred quid on this baby I had to use it! First time using a flyer as well, wanted to get a feel for the mechanics.

Honestly if I owned a Caestus AR (I wish I did), I would run it in every game!

Its AV13, Flyer, 5++ on front, Carries 10 termies and has a large blast melta! What is not to like!

Oh and I almost forgot its the only flyer that can ram, and it can easily get a S10 RAM!

But defiantly stick some DWK or TH/SS termies in it, which is down to your preference!

Last time I checked the Assault Ram didn't have Hover, which makes it hilariously bad as an assault transport since you can never get out of it.

Powerguy wrote:
Last time I checked the Assault Ram didn't have Hover, which makes it hilariously bad as an assault transport since you can never get out of it.

Last time you checked you were wrong.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
would the Castus be good to bring in some DW TH/SS termies?

It's practically unkillable by Quad Guns, so it's safe delivery system that will get your Deathwing Knights (way better) wherever they need to go for a guaranteed turn 3 assault.

Lascannon are still a threat, but it does get a 5+ cover save and you can ram whatever the lascannon is mounted on (or tank shock the person manning it.)

I know the Contemptor is better, but after dropping a hundred quid on this baby I had to use it! First time using a flyer as well, wanted to get a feel for the mechanics.

you cannot ram vendettas... I would avoid putting too many eggs in that basket while people are packing 2-3 vendettas in the allies section.

Personally ive never even faced one vendetta, I mainly play against Orks, Nids, Crons, DE and Deamons. So never really have any problems with flyers only ever face 1-2 at most and only the necron ones are a real pain.

I fought two Vendettas today, damn things are hard to kill! Guard however, are less so, and I tabled his ground forces by the end of turn two... 40 odd guardsmen and two Leman Russes.

With the recent nerf to rending not being AP2 vs Armour the kheres assault cannons are not nearly as valuable as the lascannons. Especially considering that its' relativly easy to stay out of range.

Furthermore with 2 twin-linked lascannons you have a 97.2% to hit.. and I rather like having reaally realllly accurate lascannons. And you get the superior range and thus dont need to move him nearly as much, go with CML and the LCs, you'll be happy, and those flyers wont. Just dont forget to back him up with some other AA! (*cough* 3 hyperios *cough*

Powerguy wrote:
Last time I checked the Assault Ram didn't have Hover, which makes it hilariously bad as an assault transport since you can never get out of it.

You need to check Imperial Armour: Aeronautica, page 30.

Also, the free pdf on the Forge World website: Click me, I'm a link!

You can find other FW issued pdfs updating vehicles for 6th edition in the link in my signature.

Largo39 wrote:
With the recent nerf to rending not being AP2 vs Armour the kheres assault cannons are not nearly as valuable as the lascannons. Especially considering that its' relativly easy to stay out of range.

Furthermore with 2 twin-linked lascannons you have a 97.2% to hit.. and I rather like having reaally realllly accurate lascannons. And you get the superior range and thus dont need to move him nearly as much, go with CML and the LCs, you'll be happy, and those flyers wont. Just dont forget to back him up with some other AA! (*cough* 3 hyperios *cough*

Unless you're taking him as a dual role model. The Kheres not being AP2 against vehicles is a little annoying, but when you pump out 12 shots plus a couple of frag missiles you can obliterate units. Even TEQs have to respect the Contemptor-Mortis because he averages a bit under 2 AP2 shots every time he fires. There are much more effective ways to get the AA, specifically the Mortis pattern Dread, which has the same helical targeting array, can take dual TLLC, and is much cheaper. Granted the Mortis Dread is a DA only model, but that's not a problem for me or Asmodai

andystache wrote:

Largo39 wrote:
With the recent nerf to rending not being AP2 vs Armour the kheres assault cannons are not nearly as valuable as the lascannons. Especially considering that its' relativly easy to stay out of range.

Furthermore with 2 twin-linked lascannons you have a 97.2% to hit.. and I rather like having reaally realllly accurate lascannons. And you get the superior range and thus dont need to move him nearly as much, go with CML and the LCs, you'll be happy, and those flyers wont. Just dont forget to back him up with some other AA! (*cough* 3 hyperios *cough*

Unless you're taking him as a dual role model. The Kheres not being AP2 against vehicles is a little annoying, but when you pump out 12 shots plus a couple of frag missiles you can obliterate units. Even TEQs have to respect the Contemptor-Mortis because he averages a bit under 2 AP2 shots every time he fires. There are much more effective ways to get the AA, specifically the Mortis pattern Dread, which has the same helical targeting array, can take dual TLLC, and is much cheaper. Granted the Mortis Dread is a DA only model, but that's not a problem for me or Asmodai

The problem I find with dual role is that you have to stand still to get Skyfire and Interceptor, which is what you'll want to do in the first turn- so you can't move forward and support the Ravenwing advance. You do create a massive no-fly zone around your bikes though, and things like Helldrakes are forced to fly into it if they want to Vector.

Pfft, AP2 isn't need when you stand a good chance of glancing anything sub-14 to death in a single salvo.

Hyperios are cheap but they do take a Fast Attack slot, which is precious in a DA army...

Mortis dreads are so squish though, and I don't have any. I do have two Mortis Contemptors though...

Well Asmodai you and I run very different types of DA and he fits my dual role wonderfully. Of course in my army the bikes are there to alpha strike melta and then absorb a couple of bullets before they die.

When you're not running RW you can use that T1 move and maybe even a run and risk the flyer pain for a turn, because well you're a good 12" further back than the RW.

While the Mortis is squishy he's also substantially cheaper than his big brother, and well I have a soft spot for him because he's DA only