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 Bookwrack wrote:

If that were the case, they wouldn't need Kickstarter, they could just go to the bank and get a business loan, because they've got all the documentation lined up to a T. As mentioned upthread, a lot of these are hindsight mistakes, because really, who'd think that getting boxes was so hard? Until they've actually been through the process of arranging for thousands of cardboard shippers, and had the vendor they thought was on the ball suddenly say, 'oh sorry, can't do it after all.'

Kickstarter is essentially interest-free with money given upfront and the ability to use stock at a much higher price than manufacturing cost to pay back that loan - usually above what would be wholesale. And no need to regular payments back to the bank. It's apparently also completely cool to deliver 6 months or a year or more late, and you also get a free army of apologists with each campaign. That has a powerful appeal when compared to taking an actual business loan where you really need your Ts and I's sorted out.

It also has the side luxury of not really having to deliver on everything you promised, a bit too often. Especially when campaigns run incredibly late and backers are just happy to get most of what was promised. Remember the spacers from this campaign for board storage and protection? I doubt they will be sent out post-campaign to backers (and you know, I actually would have used them, too). Nice collector's box from the Pirate Goblins? Fiction book from Sedition Wars? I'm sure there are quite a few more that escape me while I'm sitting here....

Whoa, I walk away for a bit and this turns into a philosophical debate over the unique challenges presented by using Kickstarter to launch a product. WOW!

A lot of good things have been said here, but I want to clarify a couple of points:

1) WGF is not responsible for all of the delays. Remember the first test shot, with a bad import process that gave us that wacky topography? Yeah, that was my fault.

2) This campaign is going to deliver. The product is finished and we just need a way to box it up so we can ship it out to you.

3) We need boxes in order to ship the product to you. That's not a hard thing to understand. Yes, some of you will be happy with a plain cardboard box -- and that's one of the options we're considering now. We're solving this problem. But the product MUST be in boxes by SKU.

This latest hurdle came as a surprise to me and WGF together. Everyone thought this was a done deal, and the product was bound for the ships this week.

A lot has gone into this project, and while I've shared highlights from some of the challenges I certainly haven't shared everything. I could fill a novella with everything we've learned (WGF included) but most of that is a litany of little annoyances that have led to big headaches. There are plenty of issues I also don't care to share, because it doesn't do any good to go whining about the process. We've worked it out, and we've produced an incredible product.

In the end WGF has produced 57 AMAZING tools for me. Those tools are GIGANTIC too, and took days to tool. Each. They've had to buy new equipment to make that happen (that was a surprise), including new computers because the files were far more detailed (and hefty) than they expected. Yes, they have dropped the ball on a few things, and so have I (see 1, above), but in ONE YEAR we've brought not one, but FOUR incredibly detailed, modular, injection-molded plastic themed tables from concept sketches to reality.

Every time I've posted a photo of the finished product people have expressed amazement -- even detractors of any particular theme. This product is amazing. Note that I didn't say "it's going to be," because it is. Now.

We just need to finish working out how to get it to you.

With everything we've overcome in the past 14 months, this is going to be a piece of cake. Or pie, actually. I prefer pie. Maybe cheesecake?

Debates over how Kickstarter campaigns should work aside, everyone involved in this project has my thanks for their support, and/or enthusiasm/patience as appropriate. None of this went according to plan, but the product is amazing. Far better than I had ever imagined, honestly. We just have to wait a bit longer. I'm not happy with that either, but it will all work out in the end.


EDIT: I am, of course, already talking to WGF about future themes. Yes, I will absolutely work with WGF in the future. Challenges or not, I haven't seen a company deliver quality and detail like they can. Period. But, yes, we will absolutely do things differently in the future -- Kickstarter or not.

Not in on this - but in on lots of Kickstarters...

It sucks when a KS fails to deliver, or underdelivers or delivers late...but it is still effectively venture capital into relatively risky start ups. There is a fair chance that you get nothing at all - and although that sucks, it is something that is possible when dealing with those sorts of things.

So far I think I am fairly well ahead of things in terms of my ROI in Kickstarters. There have been plenty of hickups, some flops - but in the end, it isn't too bad.

Not saying that you shouldn't complain or provide your opinion, but to compare it to something that is more of a "sure thing" like a preorder is a bit inaccurate. That does probably apply to more established companies (Reaper for example) - but when a small company effectively quadruples in size over the course of a month...it can be enough to cause it to implode even with the best laid plans.

While I like the boards, the constant delays make me very hesitant to ever ever ever back a SWT KS2. I know it'll deliver in the end (probably) but man, who knows when that end will come. Like someone said earlier in this thread, it seems like everything that can go wrong in this KS has gone wrong. And then some. eg. boxes. Again.

I still support Mister Justin and Secret Weapon, he's put a lot more on the line for his project than most kickstarters.

 Bookwrack wrote:
Behold the power of boobs.

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
Behold the power of boobs.

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that.

Mister Justin is just lucky that funding for his kickstarter didn't reach high enough to unlock the "Fields of Boobs" themed Tablescape board.

 bbb wrote:
Mister Justin is just lucky that funding for his kickstarter didn't reach high enough to unlock the "Fields of Boobs" themed Tablescape board.

Maybe he can make a special themed board for Kingdom Death?

I'm pretty eager to get these. For all I'm concerned, they could arrive in a bankers box sealed with scotch tape with my address written on it in sharpie.

(yeah, I know that's not how you guys want to do this, and I understand/respect that, but I'm just sayin' )

I wouldn't say I'm mad about the situation. A little frustrated maybe, but there's plenty of that going around. Tthe production of a new product is seldom as easy a process as it seems upfront. I'm moving in November, so if you can get it to me by then, I'll be happy enough.

Agreed daedalus... now that I've had time to get over the initial frustration, I'm not upset about it. But... I am expecting a good update this week with how the situation will finally be resolved!

I can now confirm that we have a box solution that will work, is printable, and allows us to keep the fancy boxes without slowing anything down (any further) at this point.

It's not an elegant solution, but it's going to work -- with many thanks to the team at WGF, and designer Tom V. who is really saving our bacon by working overtime to get the new designs finished.

We're waiting on the printing factory to confirm our spot in the queue, but we should be looking at about 20 days to get everything printed -- and WGF has made the packing a top priority, if for no other reason than they desperately need my giant pile of plastic out of their warehouse.

I'm heading out on a holiday I schedule back when this was all supposed to be settled, but I'll be checking in while I'm away, and since the art was approved on the original boxes there shouldn't be any surprises. But my son needs to meet his great-grandmother, and we're off to do that.

While I'm in Connecticut I will also be teaching a series of mini-workshops at The Battle Standard, because I'll take any excuse to meet new people and spend a day dorking out with them. If you're in the region please stop by and say hi, even if you can't stay for the classes.

Never mind beaten by Justin himself.

Well there goes my plan to paint them in August. What are we looking at then September shipping perhaps (after boxes are printed and are shipped out by boat). They'll have to wiat until Christmas for painting now :(

WOO HOO! I POSTED MY OWN UPDATE BEFORE SOMEONE BEAT ME TO IT!

Honestly, I figured someone would have it posted while KS told me it was still processing

Woot! And in my comment about the last update, this was all I meant- if you could figure it out in a few days, it made sense to avoid the backer wrath and just do that .

Glad it's sorted, and looking forward to this!

 DaveC wrote:
Never mind beaten by Justin himself.

Well there goes my plan to paint them in August. What are we looking at then September shipping perhaps (after boxes are printed and are shipped out by boat). They'll have to wiat until Christmas for painting now :(

Yep, that's one of the most disappointing/annoying things. I only get a small window every so often where it's actually feasable to paint things like this.

I'm glad the boxes have sorted themselves out, personally im not going to start guessing on possible shipping dates till a package arrives at my door as I'm still expecting some sort of "You sunk my battleship" update similar to the one we spun a few pages back. Tiles captured by pirates also still seems to be on the table

Im looking forward to getting my deadzone tiles (which I assume are with mantic)

I hadn't really noticed the delay being that long, tho I do back a fair few ks and tend to get a fairly regular flow of stuff through the door.

Id definitely back a 2nd ks, in fact I would have loved to added on to this one for a 4x4 board. I'm still hoping for a swamp board at some point in the future.

 ironicsilence wrote:
I'm glad the boxes have sorted themselves out, personally im not going to start guessing on possible shipping dates till a package arrives at my door as I'm still expecting some sort of "You sunk my battleship" update similar to the one we spun a few pages back. Tiles captured by pirates also still seems to be on the table

Safest to just expect them either by Christmas, or after Chinese New Year at this point.

Update #126

Jun 27 2014
We have a solution on the box issue!
17 comments
13 likes

I can now confirm that we have a box solution that will work, is printable, and allows us to keep the fancy boxes without slowing anything down (any further) at this point.

It's not an elegant solution, but it's going to work -- with many thanks to the team at WGF, and designer Tom V. who is really saving our bacon by working overtime to get the new designs finished.

We're waiting on the printing factory to confirm our spot in the queue, but we should be looking at about 20 days to get everything printed -- and WGF has made the packing a top priority, if for no other reason than they desperately need my giant pile of plastic out of their warehouse.

I'm heading out on a holiday I schedule back when this was all supposed to be settled, but I'll be checking in while I'm away, and since the art was approved on the original boxes there shouldn't be any surprises. But my son needs to meet his great-grandmother, and we're off to do that.



While I'm in Connecticut I will also be teaching a series of mini-workshops at The Battle Standard, because I'll take any excuse to meet new people and spend a day dorking out with them. If you're in the region please stop by and say hi, even if you can't stay for the classes.

Huzzah! Boxes!

Huzzah! 5 hours late!

 Azazelx wrote:
Safest to just expect them either by Christmas, or after Chinese New Year at this point.

Every KS I've invested in has been tremendously late. I just treat these as a "fire and forget" thing until stuff shows up at my door.

Until they come home, 15 years later, with a pierced lip and an accusatory look on their face.

...what exactly are you telling us about your past, Mathieu?

Doesn't everyone have this one girl they knew, then lost sight of and she was pregnant next time you saw her?

She says that I am the one...

but, the kid is not my son.


doodoo, doodoodoo, doodoodoo, doodoodoo,doodoo, doodoodoo

{moonwalks awkwardly out of thread}

Are the display boards coming with the tiles, or are those still backlogged enough?

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Are the display boards coming with the tiles, or are those still backlogged enough?

...The Display Boards are the Tiles.

I think he means the surrounding frame? - they are only supplied with the 4 tile display sets for now, I'd imagine they will be boxed with the display sets but misterjustin would have to confirm that.

Yeah, the frames obviously. I remember hearing that they wouldn't be ready in time for the primary shipment. You could add on just the frame on the Kickstarter and I did that.

Back from holiday, and...

The frames WILL ship with the Display Boards. I've asked China for an update, and I'll post as soon as I have news.

Getting there peeps.

Getting there.

Update #127

Jul 16 2014
Staus Update & Shipping Addresses
15 comments
12 likes

Hello backers!

I'm back from holiday and scrambling to catch up with two weeks of work, but I wanted to take the time to let you know that I've heard from the factory, and...

The boxes are at the printer, things are moving through the queue, and they should be packing things up (or finished) at the end of the month. I still need to wait on the freight information, as they won't be able to schedule that until we're sure how many containers I'm going to need.
Address Updates

I'm still getting emails or messages every day asking me to update, change, or confirm a shipping address. If you're looking to confirm your address please log in to backerkit.com and do so there. We will be pulling from that data to do our shipping, so if it's not correct there, then it's not going to be correct when we ship.

I will leave the BackerKit addresses unlocked until the containers actually arrive in their respective countries. You will have a couple of weeks to finalize your address if you need to.