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I have a Chaos Lord. He is teamed with 5 chosen marines. They have 4 MG and a powerfist. They ride in a Rhino to get into the fight quick.
He currently has the following 2 LC, MOT, Sig of corruption and VLW.

Is there a better weapon for close combat than 2 LC.

He's my linebreaker enemy warlord takerouter.

To bad chaos doesnt have a Relic Blade

Axe of Blind Fury.

Can't take the Axe if he wants to keep MOT.

It's costly, but I really like 1 Powerfist + 1 Lightning Claw. You keep the +1 attack for using 2 specialist weapons. You also retain the ability to fight against anything (pick which weapon you use each time you attack).

I keep seeing the PF/LC combo come up. I get that it lets you address 2+ armor if you need to, but does so at the expense of going last. is it really worth it?

 varl wrote:
I keep seeing the PF/LC combo come up. I get that it lets you address 2+ armor if you need to, but does so at the expense of going last. is it really worth it?

Yeah, it's better than bouncing off of a 2+ save and beyond the Khorne Axe, we don't have many options for high I AP2 attacks.

Giving yourself the claw does give you options for swinging at Initiative against lighter armored units.

I like the PF/LC combo also for a fighty lord.
If I'm going shooty, I like a power maul (gasp!) or just a generic fist.

 varl wrote:
I keep seeing the PF/LC combo come up. I get that it lets you address 2+ armor if you need to, but does so at the expense of going last. is it really worth it?

I agree this guy is designed to go after other champions. IMHO going last even with a 3up invol is still risking it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 minigun762 wrote:

 varl wrote:
I keep seeing the PF/LC combo come up. I get that it lets you address 2+ armor if you need to, but does so at the expense of going last. is it really worth it?

Yeah, it's better than bouncing off of a 2+ save and beyond the Khorne Axe, we don't have many options for high I AP2 attacks.

Giving yourself the claw does give you options for swinging at Initiative against lighter armored units.

Where in the rule book does it say you can do this?
Because if it is true and documented I'm going the PF/LC route.

I know there both specialist weapons but the initiative thing I need to prove.

I asked GW about that last week

Lightning claw does not have unweildy. If you attack with the claw you dont suffer from any penalties of some other weapon.

cryhavok wrote:
Lightning claw does not have unweildy. If you attack with the claw you dont suffer from any penalties of some other weapon.

Yes but then it isn't AP2 and doesn't have the strength to Instant Death like the Powerfist often does. I agree with others and would also suggest the PF/LC combo.

You can't combine the rules for the two weapons, it just gives you a pair of options depending on the situation.

mp40guy wrote:

 varl wrote:
I keep seeing the PF/LC combo come up. I get that it lets you address 2+ armor if you need to, but does so at the expense of going last. is it really worth it?

I agree this guy is designed to go after other champions. IMHO going last even with a 3up invol is still risking it.

The elite units with sv2+ will eventually get into contact with your lord and he will probably lose to a mere termie champ if he doesn't have a AP2 weapon of his own.

either 1 weapon and a pistol/combi/brand or Fist + Claw. Dual claw is never worth it.

 phantommaster wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
Lightning claw does not have unweildy. If you attack with the claw you dont suffer from any penalties of some other weapon.

Yes but then it isn't AP2 and doesn't have the strength to Instant Death like the Powerfist often does. I agree with others and would also suggest the PF/LC combo.

I was just answering the post above, not saying go with only lightning claws. I also agree with the PF/LC combo, although I get a CF instead of PF when I get the points, as punching vehicles is fun. Having the option to choose one profile or the other is awesome.

Mark of Tzeentch on a Lord is nice, to get that Storm Shield Invulnerable save, but you still run into the problem that without TDA you're less survivable than a Lone Wolf against basically anything for about twice the cost -- small arms fire hurts him more than a Terminator, or a Nurgle Terminator, and Power Fist level stuff will still instagib him. Even with Terminator Armor you're as survivable as a 40point TH/SS Terminator against Power Fists for about four times the cost. Despite everyone saying that nobody uses Terminators nowadays, believe me, you will still find dudes with S8 AP2 Coming Your Way This Summer.

If you're not using a daemon weapon of some kind (think Axe of Blind Fury, Black Mace only reaches it's full potential when in the hands of a DP), it's generally accepted that Fist/Claw is the way to go. You get to pick which one you use each round of combat, so if you're fighting 3+ save dudes, use the Claw, and 2+ saves get the fist. The 6th edition specialist weapon rule means that you still get the +1 attack for having two specialist weapons, even though they're not the same one, so there's basically no justification to go double claw now.

The biggest problem with Chaos Lord Loadouts is that, unless you have the Axe of Blind Fury, you're stuck in the 6th edition power weapon dilemma, where you can't go before a power fist with armor penetration that will deal with it. Thus, if you're not a Khorne Lord (esp. on a Juggernaut), you have to realize that you're going to get hit with one when you attack, thus you need to be able to survive a power fist hit. Having a 3++ helps, but it's much nicer to just not die from one, with the T5 of MoN. This also gives you better survivability against small arms fire.

Basically, the formula for making beatstick Lords of each mark goes like this:
Khorne: Juggernaut + Axe. If he's on foot, justify why you aren't using Kharn.
The Axe gives you that all-important AP2 at Init, and lots of it. The Juggernaut also solves your power fist problem, giving you T5, and a bunch of other cool buffs too.

Slaanesh: Bike or Steed? Fist/Claw or Claw+Burning Brand?
Use the steed if you have some dastardly outflanking plan. Use the Bike if you want to get into combat, as putting him with other Slaanesh Bikes with the FnP Icon is worthwhile.

Nurgle: Bike or Terminator Armor? Fist/Claw or Claw+Brand or Fist+Brand? If you're putting a lot of points into a TDA guy, justify why you aren't using Typhus.
We all know how nasty Nurgle Bikers are, and a TDA Nurgle Lord can take Power Fist hits and keep on swinging.

Tzeentch: Terminator Armor. Fist/Claw or Claw+Brand or Fist+Brand? How many Tzeentch Terminators are you running him with?

Unmarked: Why aren't you using Huron?
Huron brings so much to your list that I feel that if you're not going a marked Lord, you need to justify why he's not the man for the job.

I've been enjoying the following loadout:
Chaos Lord (65), Bike (20), Mark of Nurgle (15), Black Mace (45), PAxe (15), Sigil of Corruption (25), Meltabombs (5), Veteran of the Long War (5) = 195

Throw him in a unit of Nurgle Marked Spawn, and you've got a decent unit. My only concern is my own inability of when to use what weapon... I personally want to almost always use the Black Mace, but it's not always the best choice :(

 Thariinye wrote:
Mark of Tzeentch on a Lord is nice, to get that Storm Shield Invulnerable save, but you still run into the problem that without TDA you're less survivable than a Lone Wolf against basically anything for about twice the cost -- small arms fire hurts him more than a Terminator, or a Nurgle Terminator, and Power Fist level stuff will still instagib him. Even with Terminator Armor you're as survivable as a 40point TH/SS Terminator against Power Fists for about four times the cost. Despite everyone saying that nobody uses Terminators nowadays, believe me, you will still find dudes with S8 AP2 Coming Your Way This Summer.

Tzeentch: Terminator Armor. Fist/Claw or Claw+Brand or Fist+Brand? How many Tzeentch Terminators are you running him with?

Tzeentch should go with a bike and Fist/Claw + sigil, or Fist+Brand. I really like the MoT sorc on a bike with scrolls of magnus.

I have been looking at all the pro and con of the LC/PF combo. The biggest con is that no matter what weapon that you use you still have a INT 1. So why take the LC at all. Take a PP then you can shoot a STR 7 AP 2 shot then use the PF for 3 STR 8 AP 3 punches. The LC just gives you 1 extra attack at INT 1.

Better to take a shot first than swing last.

mp40guy: You misunderstand. If you choose to use the lightning claw, you don't strike at init 1.