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A multi-unit combat. Unit A loses combat and flees. Unit B with 5 ranks on its flank, and Unit C with 2 ranks on its front both pursue. They roll high enough to destroy the fleeing unit. Unit A would have fled away from Unit B if it had succeeded. Which direction does Unit C move - straight ahead, or to the direction where Unit A would have fled?

Pursuit goes in one direction.

The fleeing unit runs away from the unit with the highest unit strength (not necessarily ranks) and pursuing units chase in the same direction.

Here's the problem as i see it.

P. 57 tells you to turn the pursuing unit so it's facing the pursued unit, and then move it straight forward towards the pursued unit.

In the OP's example, if Unit A had escaped pursuit, then Unit B would have continued in a straight line (since Unit A had to run away from it), while unit C would have turned towards Unit A's final position, and moved in a straight line towards it (likely some sort of angle to its original position).

However, the rules on P. 57 also tell you to remove the pursued unit immediately if it is caught. Then unit C has nothing to turn towards in order to make it's pursuit move.

We've generally just played it as they move straight ahead, wiping out the enemy in place as they do so.

I've got an add on question to this. In the cause of Panic tests, where units have to take one if a friendly unit is destroyed within 6".

Is the 6" measured from where combat was, or where they would have been cut down in the pursuit? Ex: Unit A rolls a 3,1 so is the 6" measured from the place of combat or 4" in the direction away from the pursuing unit (or in the case of the OPs example, from the larger pursuing unit).

 Kiwi461 wrote:
I've got an add on question to this. In the cause of Panic tests, where units have to take one if a friendly unit is destroyed within 6".

Is the 6" measured from where combat was, or where they would have been cut down in the pursuit? Ex: Unit A rolls a 3,1 so is the 6" measured from the place of combat or 4" in the direction away from the pursuing unit (or in the case of the OPs example, from the larger pursuing unit).

I'm fairly certain it is from where the unit was originally destroyed (where the combat was.), however I don't currently have my book at hand to verify this, will do when I get home. Sorry I can't be more helpful, I'd prefer to have given you a page reference etc

When you are being pursued and are caught, the fleeing unit never actually moves, so the 6" would be from where the unit was at the end of combat

^^ If you catch the unit, yiur troops were moving faster than his and catch them before they run.
This should answer both questions.

So you agree that, in the multi-combat example, both pursuing units should move straight forward, and not in the same direction?

Killjoy00 wrote:
So you agree that, in the multi-combat example, both pursuing units should move straight forward, and not in the same direction?

Take a look at the example on page 61.
First, you make sure the fleeing unit out distances the pursuit from the largest enemy unit.
If you fail to catch the fleeing unit, you then move the fleeing unit.
Finally, you move units one at time and the fleeing units center, with a free pivot toward the center.

The option to move "strait forward" is under overrun, which requires you to wipe them out IN COMBAT.

IMO, once you pursue, even if caught, all pursuing units are going to move toward the center of where the pursuing unit would be.
This is because pursuit is in the direction of the enemy, overrun it strait forward.
Lacking rules to tell us that otherwise,


Also take a look at the FAQ about direction of Flight. If I charge a chariot off center into a horde and break, get away, and you pursue, you're not running strait forward, as I flee away at an angle.
Here's some crappy art: S is savage orc, C is chariot. This would be a chariot going into 40 orcs.
SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSS CC CC CC CC \ \ \ \ (Direction of flee)


3 years into 8th edition, I think I still play this wrong from time to time.


Finally, You can't pursue if they don't flee, and you can't over-run if they don't die in combat. If undead crumble to death, swarm unstable to death, daemons vap, or warmachine fails a break test, all are removed without being killed in combat. You can't over-run or pursue.

-Matt



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reading on pursuit of a single unit, even in the unit is caught "this" move still takes place representing the pursuing unit cashing down stragglers.

"this move" is referencing the pursuit move, which is described as toward the center.
So even if a single unit catches who it's pursuing, it still moves directly toward where their center would be.

This actually makes fast cav with a unit champ, exceptionally good against frenzied units. The frenzied unit slaughters the unit champ, and is then forced to pursue at an angle that the charging fast cav determine with how they connect to the enemy.

Looks like I need to buy some wolf riders.

Matt - the problem I have is with your appended text.


You still do "this" move if you catch them. But you never actually move the caught unit. They are destroyed where they are.

So you don't move towards where they "would" be - you move towards where they are... right in front of you.

Most of your quotations are for a single unit. With two units, it works slightly differently.

Killjoy00 wrote:
Matt - the problem I have is with your appended text.


You still do "this" move if you catch them. But you never actually move the caught unit. They are destroyed where they are.

So you don't move towards where they "would" be - you move towards where they are... right in front of you.

Most of your quotations are for a single unit. With two units, it works slightly differently.

But they aren't right in front of you. They are off center of you. Wither you move the fleeing unit or not, the center to center line doesn't change.

-Matt

Not true at all. Maybe you aren't understanding the idea.

There are 3 units. Defending unit, attacking unit to the front, attacking unit to the side.

When defending unit is destroyed, it matters very much if you move them. Because attacking unit to the front will either go forward (if it doesn't move) or off to the side (if defending unit does move).

Killjoy00 wrote:
Not true at all. Maybe you aren't understanding the idea.

There are 3 units. Defending unit, attacking unit to the front, attacking unit to the side.

When defending unit is destroyed, it matters very much if you move them. Because attacking unit to the front will either go forward (if it doesn't move) or off to the side (if defending unit does move).

I see what you're saying. I still don't think strait forward is correct though, that's not in any part of the pursuit rules.

What do you do when you don't catch an enemy, pivot to pursue, and don't clear the friendly unit?

Bounce off one inch. Same as if you both pursue off to one direction, but one unit is big or doesn't clear the other, etc.

I think, strictly speaking, the rules don't cover this at all.

The unit is immediately removed from the board. The rules say to pursue to where it is. But it isn't on the board.

The two closest analogues are the lack of any pursuit when an undead unit crumbles or overrunning when you destroyed a unit in close combat (which is straight forward). To me, the latter is more like the first.

There's simply no rules support for turning towards where a unit would have fled had it not died.

 curran12 wrote:
Pursuit goes in one direction.

The fleeing unit runs away from the unit with the highest unit strength (not necessarily ranks) and pursuing units chase in the same direction.

I had to double check the date on this thread, because unit strength? Really? That there's a 7th edition mechanic. The unit will flee away from the enemy with the greatest number of complete ranks of five or more, right?

As to the rest, I'd put a vote in for pursuing in the direction that the unit would have fled.

Killjoy00 wrote:
Bounce off one inch. Same as if you both pursue off to one direction, but one unit is big or doesn't clear the other, etc.

I think, strictly speaking, the rules don't cover this at all.

The unit is immediately removed from the board. The rules say to pursue to where it is. But it isn't on the board.

The two closest analogues are the lack of any pursuit when an undead unit crumbles or overrunning when you destroyed a unit in close combat (which is straight forward). To me, the latter is more like the first.

There's simply no rules support for turning towards where a unit would have fled had it not died.

If I have 10 goblin wolf riders, and they are all killed in melee, nearby friendly units take a panic test. If I have no models left, where do I measure from to see if I'm in range for the panic test?
You'd have to measure from where the unit was.

On a few occasions you measure as if a unit was their. I think multiple combat break tests is part of that.

Right - but not where it went. it is where it was - which was directly in front of you...

It never got a chance to move its pursuit dice so there's no way you have a chance to pursue off to the side.