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 AtoMaki wrote:

Actually, clothing can be a major factor. It affects your mobility and comfort, not to mention that with a tactical harness, you will have all your gear at hand. You can reload your gun faster (and you can carry more ammo), you can throw your grenades faster (and again, carry more grenades), your first aid kit will be at hand, increasing your survivability, your secondary weapon(s) will be at hand and so on. You can also move faster and "lighter". These are small things, but over time, they could be decisive because of the snowball effect.

Yes, but modern gear is optimised for modern weapons and modern accessories. I'm sure British colonial troops had gear that was reasonably practical for their weapons, as had Napoleon's armies, and so did Spartans. IG doesn't use 21st century equipment. Maybe a giant fur hat is exactly optimal for keeping your optical targeting array in perfect operational temperature!

New non-horrifically ugly plastic Ogryn kits and a rules update to make Ogryns worth taking as a decent CC option.
I wants them.

Well really I agree with pretty much everything that people have said regarding the RR, they are awesome unit and I want to field them.

With regards to other unit been made more useful than they are I completely agree and even more so with the doctrines to shift the FOC around some more.

More tanks would always be nice

I'm happy to sit back and wait to see what GW bring us.

A lot of this discussion is the exact reason why we don't need just a single plastic line. I'm sure a more modern look would sell well, but I don't see that happening for a long time. Though I could see it thrown in for the pre-heresy stuff. And to be honest, Zulu Flavored IG sounds amazing.

Otherwise I echo mostly what's here. I'm so ok with loosing effectiveness of fliers and our hard hitters if it means making things like Ogryn, Ratlings, and RRs better. Even if they just increased the points cost of our fliers that'd be cool. For RR, there should be an option for mechanical steeds...either WHFB mechanical 'Thunder Horses' or just bikes. There's so much they can do with RRs it's such a disappointment they're so terrible.

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure British colonial troops had gear that was reasonably practical for their weapons, as had Napoleon's armies, and so did Spartans.

You would be wrong. Many of them had gear that was designed to be showy and not necessarily all that practical.

Which, of course, also fits in with certain IG regiments, I should note.

Autocannon Chimeras would be cool.

Vendetta's will get some points added to them, you can be sure of that.

Guard don't currently have an MC based model, so they might get one of those. DA didn't get one though, right? So, perhaps not.

They already have one good plastic flier model (Valkyrie), but perhaps they'll get a smaller one with no transport capacity, similar to a FW model or the new DA flier.

I think we're due for a plastic conversion kit for the Vendetta, though. Like, WAY overdue.

Here is a thought on the Vendedta
3x Auto-Cannons [Twin-Linked?] or Multy Laser
Las-Cannons an upgrade for a price

 Melissia wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure British colonial troops had gear that was reasonably practical for their weapons, as had Napoleon's armies, and so did Spartans.

You would be wrong. Many of them had gear that was designed to be showy and not necessarily all that practical.

Which, of course, also fits in with certain IG regiments, I should note.

Actually aside from the spartans, the other armies showy nature was because they needed a clear way of showing whose troops were whose, since fights back then was the standard "Lineup! Fire!" sort. Being shot by your own troops or another part of your army was depressingly high.

I hope they have a special character upgrade for your Leman Russ tanks that lets you use Russes as troops.

Actually, I hope they roll the ABG into the Imperial Guard codex as a whole.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

But all the IG has pretty much the same weapons anyway. We are talking about cut of the coats and fur hats here; hardly the most crucial elements of the combat effectiveness.

Actually, clothing can be a major factor. It affects your mobility and comfort, not to mention that with a tactical harness, you will have all your gear at hand. You can reload your gun faster (and you can carry more ammo), you can throw your grenades faster (and again, carry more grenades), your first aid kit will be at hand, increasing your survivability, your secondary weapon(s) will be at hand and so on. You can also move faster and "lighter". These are small things, but over time, they could be decisive because of the snowball effect.

Its a tabletop fantasy game, the aesthetic is much more important than representing some theoretical increase of 4% in effeciency.

Only thing I want from a new guard codex, is a sub-rule, that states.

"If joined by an allied character, that character may not conferr ATSKNF or fearless to the squad"

Guardsmen's weakness is morale. ATSKNF works for small squad's, but for 50 man blob squad's, it's both absurd, and overpowered.

 Rysal190 wrote:
I'm so ok with loosing effectiveness of fliers and our hard hitters if it means making things like Ogryn, Ratlings, and RRs better.

And the number of people that said that really warms my cockles. To the bottom of my heart. And it really does feel like still the 2nd edition archetype of the 'guard player' - the dude or gal that just loves stupid abhumans and dudes on horses against tanks - is still going strong. The humble guardsman, the LRBT, these are the workhorses of the Guard... but ratlings, ogryn and roughriders are the heart.


Also, someone suggested earlier, plastic CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT? Yes please, but make it an assault vehicle for god's sake...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Evileyes, good point. Maybe just 'when a model with ATSKNF is part of a unit that is falling back and does not possess the rule, they automatically detatch from that unit during the fall-back move and rally separately from the unit (which must test as normal).'

Maybe even just an FAQ that says ATSKNF is on a model-by-model basis?

I quite like the idea of an allied marine character leading a blob of 50 guardsmen, hordes of them dying, everyone running away... and the marine going back to finish the job on his own.

JWhex wrote:
Its a tabletop fantasy game, the aesthetic is much more important than representing some theoretical increase of 4% in effeciency.

This is the best answer yet.

Plus, I happen to like all the different styles of IG. I have a collection of mostly Valhallans, but I also have some Mordians, Praetorians, and at least one squat. He's in my Penal Squad. The dirty abhuman.

I wouldn't mind getting some Cadians also, but all of them have to be in the old metal models. The newer plastic seem slightly differently sized. Then I want to get another IG army of Armageddon Steel Legion, so I can battle the Steel Legion and Valhallans in my future Stalingrad city board.

Bring back Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and add a lot more points to the vendetta.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
Bring back Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and add a lot more points to the vendetta.

I like this idea. I like my vendettas and valkyries, but to be fair, they are a little underpriced. Last Chancers would be really cool too, but I don't think Gw would bring them back (it makes armies too unique ) Also heavy weapons teams should go down in price. I mean two grunts and a mortar for 60pts? please! Also maybe if stormtroopers went down they would be a more viable option. As well as all this stuff I would like to see some of the doctrines come back (just wishful thinking)

Here is why I want the rough riders to be at least useful. I made these models years ago for my traitor guard but only ever used them a few times because the rules suck so bad.

Good work on those I must admit my reason for wanting updated & useful Rough Riders is to emulate the following;

Huge cavalry charges across the table. Don't care if they get mown down, just the image of so many rushing across the board - ahh, if only GW, if only.

JWhex wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

But all the IG has pretty much the same weapons anyway. We are talking about cut of the coats and fur hats here; hardly the most crucial elements of the combat effectiveness.

Actually, clothing can be a major factor. It affects your mobility and comfort, not to mention that with a tactical harness, you will have all your gear at hand. You can reload your gun faster (and you can carry more ammo), you can throw your grenades faster (and again, carry more grenades), your first aid kit will be at hand, increasing your survivability, your secondary weapon(s) will be at hand and so on. You can also move faster and "lighter". These are small things, but over time, they could be decisive because of the snowball effect.

Its a tabletop fantasy game, the aesthetic is much more important than representing some theoretical increase of 4% in effeciency.

Yeah, maybe I've got a little bit carried away with this .

Though it would be damn funny after this if GW would simply cancel the Catachan line, so only the Cadian models would remain (sounds pretty damn logical, especially with GW's current business policy). According to this discussion, half the IG players would ragequit the game then or something...

 AtoMaki wrote:

Though it would be damn funny after this if GW would simply cancel the Catachan line, so only the Cadian models would remain (sounds pretty damn logical, especially with GW's current business policy). According to this discussion, half the IG players would ragequit the game then or something...

Nah, not for Catachans. you might lose 15% of IG players over those godawful models...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Catachan sentinels are ok though.

What do people think about taking the scale back to the same size as the older Guard like Valhallans, Mordians and older Cadian. This would mean they would be the correct scale to SM.

 vim_the_good wrote:
What do people think about taking the scale back to the same size as the older Guard like Valhallans, Mordians and older Cadian. This would mean they would be the correct scale to SM.

Sure, it would probably be a good idea. Aren't FW guard scaled more like that anyway?

I want platoon-level doctrines to make platoons viable. Either cheap carapace armour, close-combat buffs or shooty buffs, I'm not fussed.

And I'd like a completely new plastics line. Many of the armies mentioned in this thread would be pretty cool, but it would be nice to have something actually new for a change.

I personally have done well with Rough Riders. For the Honor of Cadia! Works real with them, the only problem I have is one they have failed a Moral Check not even my Creed/Kell Combo seems to get them back in the fight.

Like a said earlier I would like them to just be little more resilient. A Carapace Armor upgrade or even Shields would make them better. Giving them a Toughness 3 [4] would also make a lot of difference.
A couple of Special Character would be fantastic:
 Assault: Mogul
 Outriders: Gives them the Scout Rules
 Dragoons [Name?]: Changes Rapid Fire to Assault-2
Let then Trade out the Las-Pistols for one of the Following
 Combat Shield
 Las Gun or Shotgun
 2 for the Special Weapons: Flamer, Melta-Gun, Plasma Gun, Grenade Launcher.
Trade out the Lance for one of the Following
 A Second Las Pistol
 Power Lance
Let them take one of the following:
 Vox-Caster
 Platoon Standard: Re-Roll or add 1d6 to random moves and Re-Roll “1s” with Charging Hit and Damage. [Replaces Las Pistol or Hunting Lance?]
 Demo Charge?

 Anpu42 wrote:
I personally have done well with Rough Riders. For the Honor of Cadia! Works real with them, the only problem I have is one they have failed a Moral Check not even my Creed/Kell Combo seems to get them back in the fight.

Like a said earlier I would like them to just be little more resilient. A Carapace Armor upgrade or even Shields would make them better. Giving them a Toughness 3 [4] would also make a lot of difference.
A couple of Special Character would be fantastic:
 Assault: Mogul
 Outriders: Gives them the Scout Rules
 Dragoons [Name?]: Changes Rapid Fire to Assault-2
Let then Trade out the Las-Pistols for one of the Following
 Combat Shield
 Las Gun or Shotgun
 2 for the Special Weapons: Flamer, Melta-Gun, Plasma Gun, Grenade Launcher.
Trade out the Lance for one of the Following
 A Second Las Pistol
 Power Lance
Let them take one of the following:
 Vox-Caster
 Platoon Standard: Re-Roll or add 1d6 to random moves and Re-Roll “1s” with Charging Hit and Damage. [Replaces Las Pistol or Hunting Lance?]
 Demo Charge?

While I could agree with the minor buffs, like vox-caster, toughness 3(4) (which doesn't exist any more) or even the 'squad pennant' (platoon standard), I think power lances, demo charges, assault-2 lasguns are all a bit too powerful/weird. They already get 2 special weapons, I think being able to switch for lasguns would be ok, but otherwise just keep 'em the same, make 'em a little cheaper (8 points?) and make it possible to field more. A platoon or something.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I personally have done well with Rough Riders. For the Honor of Cadia! Works real with them, the only problem I have is one they have failed a Moral Check not even my Creed/Kell Combo seems to get them back in the fight.

Like a said earlier I would like them to just be little more resilient. A Carapace Armor upgrade or even Shields would make them better. Giving them a Toughness 3 [4] would also make a lot of difference.

I had an idea (perhaps even earlier in this thread, I can't remember): Include the Fantasy '+1 Armour for Cavalry' rule. So if Cavalry have Flak Armour, that's a 4+ save. Would that be enough to make them worthwhile?

It would definitely be enough to make them more effective - getting an armour save against bolters, shuriken catapults, and most importantly overwatching flamers - but it'd be damn hard to justify without giving it to Daemons, or even worse, Thunderwolves.

No I'd rather keep those Thunderwolves at a 3+ than give my RR's a 4+ thanks!

Ah yes, Marines on Cavalry, I couldn't think of any, but there they are...
Ah well, Perhaps we need to give them "Riding Armour 4+" instead then...

I'd be cool with:
Streamlined Russ firing. it was an issue in 5th and is still (at least for me) an issue in 6th as to how many guns the damn thing can fire after moving, how far it can go...

I don't want a discussion on it, just a fixed ruling for the Russ.

Other than that, a balanced book would be nice. Fix Stormtroopers, give us an option for ABG without FW and new plastics please!

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I'd be cool with:
Streamlined Russ firing. it was an issue in 5th and is still (at least for me) an issue in 6th as to how many guns the damn thing can fire after moving, how far it can go...

I don't want a discussion on it, just a fixed ruling for the Russ.

Well, we do have that. If all it's weapons are Heavy, it can fire them all while moving up to 6". If it fires Ordnance, it can only snap-fire with other weapons. A lot of people don't like it, and certainly it does make the 'vanilla Russ' (supposedly the workhorse of the Guard) the least efficient. But there is a ruling all the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Ah yes, Marines on Cavalry, I couldn't think of any, but there they are...
Ah well, Perhaps we need to give them "Riding Armour 4+" instead then...

Or just give up on the whole improved armour thing. While Carapace would look quite cool, it just doesn't quite feel right for my mental image (or the fluff) of Rough Riders. They're outriders and scouts with a low carbon footprint; they also do stupid charges, but I see that as part and parcel of the historical riffing the guard does well. And they are meant to be dying in droves, like the cast of War Horse (the play, not the film; thanks Stephen Spielberg for making horses bulletproof and robbing the entire story of its underpinning tragedy)

 Anpu42 wrote:

Trade out the Lance for one of the Following
 A Second Las Pistol
 Power Lance

I used to get quite irritated with the Rough Rider entry with GW saying "Either a las-pistol or CC weapon". I couldn't figure out why until I realised - GW are actually using logic and that the rider is using one hand for the reins of the mount. "What is this madness?" I cried aloud (not really) but slowly the logic has come home to me. In otherwords, no to a second las-pistol (I've never held with dual-wielding firearms, it's stupid and you'll be about as accurate as a blind man trying to throw a hoop onto peg). As for the Power Lance, everyone would take it over the Hunting Lance. The Hunting Lance is worth having currently for that I5 S5 AP3 nastiness, but they're one use. If you could give them Power Lances then they have the rules for the Power Lance every time they get into melee, which would make poor Marines easier targets for them in the long run. If anything I'd say allow the Sergeant to get one as an upgrade but everyone else has Hunting Lances. However, to refer to the part of swapping out las-pistols for lasguns/shotguns, I can get behind that entirely - Dragoons anyone?

 Anpu42 wrote:

Let them take one of the following:
 Vox-Caster
 Platoon Standard: Re-Roll or add 1d6 to random moves and Re-Roll “1s” with Charging Hit and Damage. [Replaces Las Pistol or Hunting Lance?]
 Demo Charge?

I'd swap the name of the Platoon Standard to Troop Guidon to avoid confusion and have it swap out the fellows Hunting Lance for it - afterall, trying to manage two heavy tipped 8 foot poles on a galloping horse? Otherwise yes to that and to both Vox & Demo Charges. Actually I'd suggest it gave the ability to re-roll '1's for both hitting and for wounding on the turn they assault.

With reference to a Carapace Armour upgrade; I'm for that. I'd not use it myself, but it would allow people to use 'Feudal World' knights with hunting lances & perhaps with wheellock pistols to represent las-pistols and so on, or just heavier units of horsemen. Might scare a Marine army, their bolters having a chance to not kill the Rough Riders outright.

I'd add the following to Rough Riders as well;
- Heavy Weapons Squads with a fancy name for Rough Rider ones - essentially Horse Artillery with the following options; autocannon, heavy bolter, lascannon and, and this is just an idea forming in my head, some light artillery, a form of light battlecannon - say 48" S6/7/8 (I reckon S7 myself) AP3 large blast? Visually this is sort of what I'm thinking (picture is of a team from the Royal Horse Artillery, circa 1918):


I've been trying to think how a whole Rough Rider army could be organised, how they could do the options for it - afterall you have some special characters which make all of X units in an army Troops, which could work. Maybe it could work on similar lines;
When taking 'Colonel Hawhaw'* upgrade for CCS;
- All Rough Rider units in the army become Troops.
- Heavy Weapon Squads & Special Weapon Squads may take mounts at +0 points and HWS can take the light artillery mentioned above.
- CCS can take mounts at +0 points and Hunting Lances (maybe for +5 points each?). They can have their normal upgrades & perhaps allow them to have the light artillery piece too for their HW team. One member of the CCS can take a Bugle which on the turn any friendly unit within 6" assaults they have the special rule Feel No Pain**. Perhaps the CCS Commander also receives a new order, one that can only be given to Rough Rider squads, but I'm not sure what to suggest - maybe it would allow them to run & assault or in the same turn or they get to reroll dice for their assault range?

Just some thoughts.

*Lord Cardigan, commander of the Light Brigade at Balaclava, 1854.
**Based on the fact that the sound of a bugle sounding the charge, and we have evidence for this, can send men into fits of blood-crazed madness - most obvious example I can think of is the British Heavy Cavalry Charge at Waterloo - just listen to the bugles in that and the furious pounding of all those charging horses - the combination would probably send your blood racing. (Note: sadly the film Waterloo didn't show the British Heavy Cavalry decimating D'Erlon's Corps and several troops of Cuirassiers - but considering the epic scope & scale of the film I can forgive it.