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Boobs. The codex needs more boobs.

Boobs everywhere.

I think you want the Sisters of Battle thread.

 -Loki- wrote:
I think you want the Sisters of Battle thread.

Just imagine Marneus Calgar, the most pompous space marine of all, with a giant rack on him

Don't worry, I'm just joking

 Selym wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
I think you want the Sisters of Battle thread.

Just imagine Marneus Calgar, the most pompous space marine of all, with a giant rack on him

Don't worry, I'm just joking

Actually considering some Roman Armors...

 Lobukia wrote:

 Havok210 wrote:
I agree with what most folks have posted. I think a cost reduction to Tactical Marines is a must to pull them more in line with what DA are today...

I see this quit a bit:
DA tacticals with 10men, 1 vet sarg, ML, MG, Rhino = 210
SM tactical with 10 men, 1 sarg, ML, MG, Rhino = 210

And I'd argue the SM have the better Special Rules

yes if identically kitted out the two units do cost the same. But the difference is the DA don't need to buy those upgrades where as the marines have them already factored into their cost. As well they have access to a special weapon at 5 men instead of 10 like the vanilla marines. That's where the costing in line with the DA codex comes into play so that I can choose the upgrades that I do or don't want and adjust costs accordingly rather than being told I have to buy them.

 schmoozies wrote:

yes if identically kitted out the two units do cost the same. But the difference is the DA don't need to buy those upgrades where as the marines have them already factored into their cost. As well they have access to a special weapon at 5 men instead of 10 like the vanilla marines. That's where the costing in line with the DA codex comes into play so that I can choose the upgrades that I do or don't want and adjust costs accordingly rather than being told I have to buy them.

The vanillla codex way is good, and DA should have kept it too. Vanilla method encourages you to build fluffy codex-compliant squads. DA way leads spamming small five man squads all with the same weapon upgrade (missile spam, plasma spam, etc.)

I'd definitely say that Vulkan is just too much of a no-brainer. He should be pared back to a normal SC - a guy who gives you a nice benefit, but sits somewhere between competitive and fluffy.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd definitely say that Vulkan is just too much of a no-brainer. He should be pared back to a normal SC - a guy who gives you a nice benefit, but sits somewhere between competitive and fluffy.

Do you find Vulkan a no-brainer in 6th edition? I've been finding that Combat Tactics is totally awesome in the context of the 6th edition ruleset, and metagame changes have made melta weapons less important in my area, diminishing part of the reason to take Vulkan in the first place.

They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

They did Chapter Traits once and it royally sucked...

I don't want to see a return of everyone and their mother playing the exact same Imperial-Blood-Fist-Ravens with 3x infiltrating Dev squads and true-grit everywhere for the 'drawback' of no Land Raiders that you were never going to take anyways.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

They did Chapter Traits once and it royally sucked...

I don't want to see a return of everyone and their mother playing the exact same Imperial-Blood-Fist-Ravens with 3x infiltrating Dev squads and true-grit everywhere for the 'drawback' of no Land Raiders that you were never going to take anyways.

If chapter tactic switching special characters won't break the game, then chapter tactic switching regular characters won't either.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

This. Let a Chapter Master or Captain buy different Chapter Tactics and make sure that the costs aren't fethed up. It's the last part that might fail, though.

itll wind up being way overcosted to get the traits... I could understand a percentage of the army (5% say) but with our luck itll be like a set x points to run a 1st company or 8th-10th company

They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

Funny. When CSM players say the same thing about their own codex they often draw ridicule. Why is it different for loyalists (serious question - not attacking you or trying to start a fight or anything)?

I would say that, at least in my area, the codex doesn't really need anything new so much as it needs to have what it already has adjusted to fit in more with the new edition. Considering that's pretty much been the path they have taken with the other new books I'd say the Marines will be in good shape. If I could wish list something though, I would say maybe some more love for scouts. IDK if the book actually NEEDS that, but it would be cool (imo) to see the scout entry expanded upon. Maybe some new special rules and the ability to take a Storm as a dedicated transport?

Loyalists are not dogs or playthings of the Dark Gods..?
In all seriousness, because its a little easier to represent many of the CSM named chapters with your current mark system (Cappy has x mark unlocks x troops). That's the kinda thing us loyalists want to have. If I take a 1st company theme I want to be able to have my scoring sternguard. If I take a EC army I want to have noise marines as troops... oh wait.. you can do that kinda thing in the new dex. We are hoping for something like the mark system (If he takes Heavy Weapons aptitude we get devs as troops, a jump pack and FA infantry are troops, TDA and we get scoring termies/sternguard, scout armor and we get bonus scout choices/options) As of now the CSM actually have a much easier way of making their armies warband specific than us marines do (We get IC's that sometimes make it fluffy like vulkan)

Tycho wrote:

Funny. When CSM players say the same thing about their own codex they often draw ridicule. Why is it different for loyalists (serious question - not attacking you or trying to start a fight or anything)?

Well, Chaos has Marks that allows giving units different flavour. (Not that they couldn't use more customisation options.)

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Loyalists are not dogs or playthings of the Dark Gods..?
In all seriousness, because its a little easier to represent many of the CSM named chapters with your current mark system (Cappy has x mark unlocks x troops). That's the kinda thing us loyalists want to have. If I take a 1st company theme I want to be able to have my scoring sternguard. If I take a EC army I want to have noise marines as troops... oh wait.. you can do that kinda thing in the new dex. We are hoping for something like the mark system (If he takes Heavy Weapons aptitude we get devs as troops, a jump pack and FA infantry are troops, TDA and we get scoring termies/sternguard, scout armor and we get bonus scout choices/options) As of now the CSM actually have a much easier way of making their armies warband specific than us marines do (We get IC's that sometimes make it fluffy like vulkan)

Yes, because having one specific cult troop is like getting an entire army full of devastators, or terminators, or awesome veterans (We get that too, except chosen aren't good).

I mean our real option there is Plague Troops, and Slaanesh (not as good), the rest are..so badly done.

Well ours would be the same... I mean I could understand like Iron Warriors getting Havocs as troops, NL getting assault... etc... But as I said, as of now CSM gives better warband customization than SM get. I could understand them expanding similar traits to the CSM captains though.

Tycho wrote:

They need the ability to play different Chapters, and have the rules be representative of those Chapters, without the need for mandatory special characters. It's been the Marine 'Dex's problem since it came out.

Funny. When CSM players say the same thing about their own codex they often draw ridicule. Why is it different for loyalists (serious question - not attacking you or trying to start a fight or anything)?

I think the nay-sayers would fall under the general "if a faction I don't play gets something, it must be condemned".

Personally, I'd want to see more variety in every codex. Even give us options for completely uncompetitive builds.

All-Scout armies. 'nuff said.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Well ours would be the same... I mean I could understand like Iron Warriors getting Havocs as troops, NL getting assault... etc... But as I said, as of now CSM gives better warband customization than SM get. I could understand them expanding similar traits to the CSM captains though.

The fact that this idea was poorly implemented in the Chaos Codex doesn't mean that it has to be in every other Codex using the idea.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
All-Scout armies. 'nuff said.

You can pretty much do this with the current codex. The only thing stopping you is a dedicated scout HQ. If you want to go pure 10th company, they have a normal captain/command squad/chaplain. Or just attach a librarian. If you want, model "artificer scout armor" with a 3+ save...

I'm not sure how many tricks could be opened up with allowing a captain to swap his 3+ for a 4+ save plus extras. Adding move through cover might be worth a straight swap for power armor, but if you include things like scout or infiltrate I think there might be some nasty stuff you could do.

I like scouts, but they are supposed to play second fiddle. They don't need more whistles and bells then they have now. The only big problems scout armies face is having LSS and scout bikers competing for FA slots.

You can pretty much do this with the current codex. The only thing stopping you is a dedicated scout HQ. If you want to go pure 10th company, they have a normal captain/command squad/chaplain. Or just attach a librarian. If you want, model "artificer scout armor" with a 3+ save...

I'm not sure how many tricks could be opened up with allowing a captain to swap his 3+ for a 4+ save plus extras. Adding move through cover might be worth a straight swap for power armor, but if you include things like scout or infiltrate I think there might be some nasty stuff you could do.

I like scouts, but they are supposed to play second fiddle. They don't need more whistles and bells then they have now. The only big problems scout armies face is having LSS and scout bikers competing for FA slots.

I'm not sure you need to go the route of having a captain unlock things, and they don't need to shift the focus of the army (imo), but I think it would be nice to at least get some new wargear to make scouts more "scouty". Something to help them synergise (sorry for the "s" word) better with the Tactical squads for example.

Honestly, I would just love to see the points fixed for Vanguard Vets, Honor Guard, Devastators, and Legion of the Damned.

Let us use the fun equipment options without them costing more than TH/SS termies!

I'd gladly just take a tiny white dwarf article or FAQ and let the codex slot go to someone who needs it more!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yes, because having one specific cult troop is like getting an entire army full of devastators, or terminators, or awesome veterans (We get that too, except chosen aren't good).

I mean our real option there is Plague Troops, and Slaanesh (not as good), the rest are..so badly done.

Think of the Chaos Space Marine Dex as made for the four Cult Legions. Play the reg Space Marine Dex for the other traitor legions, works fine. Run the BA codex for NL's. All good.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yes, because having one specific cult troop is like getting an entire army full of devastators, or terminators, or awesome veterans (We get that too, except chosen aren't good).

I mean our real option there is Plague Troops, and Slaanesh (not as good), the rest are..so badly done.

Think of the Chaos Space Marine Dex as made for the four Cult Legions. Play the reg Space Marine Dex for the other traitor legions, works fine. Run the BA codex for NL's. All good.

People do that already pretty much.

Even then they still do it for the cult legions, there's plenty of Count's as Khorne with the BA dex...

Think it'd be nice if one could actually run what legion you want without needing to head to "Imperium loyalist #2 book"

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
People do that already pretty much.

Even then they still do it for the cult legions, there's plenty of Count's as Khorne with the BA dex...

Think it'd be nice if one could actually run what legion you want without needing to head to "Imperium loyalist #2 book"

Would be nice. But GW had to put Huron in over one of the Original Traitor legions getting a SC. The SC unlocks troop type would be great for just about any codex.

You only see so many TH/SS terminators because our OTHER terminators are so poor. Give them a free heavy weapon upgrade and a chainfist for every five models in the squad and you might see them again on occasion. Even better; do that and increase their invul save to 4++. You'll see assault terminators disappear quickly even if they do stay at the same cost.
It won't happen of course; everyone else's terminators are base 5++ so there's no reason to expect it to change. It's not like we get a huge discount on them now as is, compared to the other books. GW forbid we have a reasonably priced assault unit that actually stands up in close combat...

I also strongly agree with those calling for SM captains to be made more useful, particularly by choosing their own chapter tactics or unlocking something special as troops.
Jump captain gets you one scoring assault squad, terminator captain gets one scoring terminator unit, etc.
Having to take a named character to get rules indicative of your chosen chapter was a terrible mechanic.

Adjust points downward for nearly every unit in the book. DA has a nice approach to tactical squads, I wouldn't mind seeing them done that way (but keeping combat tactics of course). Drastically decrease costs for vanguard vets or give them free jump packs.
I know our librarians are going to have to roll for their powers, but don't like it. They're either going to have to be insanely cheap or have access to divination. Or both.



Most importantly I would like to see a competitive reason to take full 10 man squads over MSU builds. The 'fluffy' options should correspond with the most tactically viable, which is so rarely the case in 40k.

Minor rebalancing. Nothing more. C:SM fifth edition was one of the best codices released in terms of design and internal balance, only overshadowed by other codices because they were overpowered.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Jump Pack command squads.

Give Legion of the Damned their own Codex, roll Black Templars into C:SM's...

Dear god, no! ;P

As a BT player I'm actually not fussed about them being rolled into C:SM as long as there is some way to keep some of their individuality. Some kind of Chapter traits system or a page or two giving them some special rules would be fine by me. It would be a bit of a shame as it would likely result in no new models for them though.

Legion of the Damned codex would be terrible - 100 pages of "We don't really know much of anything about them......." lol!