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I have two questions about Tau Interceptor drones.
They seem to be something relatively unique in the rules: interceptor/skyfire models firing from the fire points of a zooming flyer; which specifically can disembark from the flyer during its movement.
Perhaps they're not really questions as the RAW seems to cover it... but rules situations that your opponent will go 'whaaat? let me see that!'

So the questions are:
1) What ballistic skill do Interceptor drones fire at if their Sunshark uses evade?
RAW, I believe they are unaffected by evade: Evade says "An evading Flyer has the Jink special rule but only fires Snap Shots", but says nothing about embarked passengers.

2) What ballistic skill do interceptor drones fire at if they disembark from their Sunshark after it moves at cruising speed (18-36"?
RAW, again this seems to say that they will be completely unaffected by the speed they moved at this turn. Rules for Fire Points only refer to 'firing out of the vehicle'; rules for disembarking are only against disembarking from vehicles moving >6", to which we have an explicit exception. So RAW, a Sunshark can cruise at 36", disembark passengers 6" and they still fire at full BS?


Also... I just noticed that the Sunshark can use ongoing reserves and pulse bomb generator to effectively never get hit (except by interceptors). Zoom in 36", drop pulse bomb, turboboost out 24", repeat. Mwahaha.

1: There's no rules for passengers and evading, so nothing happens.

2: They are given permission to disembark, so nothing changes for them except they count as moving. Don't forget drop pods move at cruising speed, but marines getting out can still shoot.

Don't they fire as if turrets? Can't remember a page ref, don't have codex to hand, but that would mean they fire snap shots if embarked after a jink.

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Don't they fire as if turrets? Can't remember a page ref, don't have codex to hand, but that would mean they fire snap shots if embarked after a jink.

I don't remember such a rule. But it seems to me that unless the flyer moves exactly 18 inches, the drones that are attached have to fire snap shots... That can't be right...

Well they do shoot like passengers so combat speed or snapshots.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Well they do shoot like passengers so combat speed or snapshots.

Indeed. And for a flyer that means moving exactly 18 inches. Which often is impossible or impractical.

Page entry in the codex states the drones are turrets when on the Sunshark, but disembark like passengers using the special rule to do so when the bomber is zooming.

thejughead wrote:
Page entry in the codex states the drones are turrets when on the Sunshark, but disembark like passengers using the special rule to do so when the bomber is zooming.

You mean the fluff text?

Its part of the codex. The "fluff" is usually a good indicator of intent particularly if its not a character.

thejughead wrote:
Its part of the codex. The "fluff" is usually a good indicator of intent particularly if its not a character.

Well, if we accept that part of text as rules do I also have to place my disembarking drones between the Sun Shark and any approaching enemy fighter as the next paragraph suggests?

That being said, I accept that the intent probably was for them to act as turrets and I'd agree to play it that way (and then they'd be affected by evasion too.)

@Crimson, everyone is always clamoring about an FAQ, but most of the time intent is there in the codex. In a tournament setting its up to the TO to determine that intent, but amongst friends its clear how it should be played.

thejughead wrote:
Page entry in the codex states the drones are turrets when on the Sunshark, but disembark like passengers using the special rule to do so when the bomber is zooming.

No it doesn't. Read the actual rules for drones, and not the flavor text.

And it doesn't say they are turrets; it says they act like turrets, referring to their ability to swivel around and acquire different targets. It does NOT mean they use the flyers BS, nor does it mean they are part of the flyer's armament.

thejughead wrote:
@Crimson, everyone is always clamoring about an FAQ, but most of the time intent is there in the codex. In a tournament setting its up to the TO to determine that intent, but amongst friends its clear how it should be played.

I agree on general level, but in this particular case FAQ is really needed. It is unacceptable if we need to start to comb fluff text to decipher designer intent.

RAW clearly is that unless the Shark moves exactly 18 inches, the drones are forced to fire snap shots. It's hard to believe that this is what they really intended, but you can never be sure.

 Crimson wrote:

RAW clearly is that unless the Shark moves exactly 18 inches, the drones are forced to fire snap shots. It's hard to believe that this is what they really intended, but you can never be sure.

I have to agree with you here. In fact, it always seemed strange to me that Flyers even have a distinction between Combat and Cruising speeds. For all intents and purposes, any other flyer in the game can move 18.001"-36" all game and have absolutely no ill effects. In fact, flyers *should* move 18.001-36" because there is the bad effect of, if you move exactly 18" and then suffer a locked velocity you will be locked at 18" movement: but if you move 18.001" you can still move between 18.001 and 36.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

thejughead wrote:
Page entry in the codex states the drones are turrets when on the Sunshark, but disembark like passengers using the special rule to do so when the bomber is zooming.

No it doesn't. Read the actual rules for drones, and not the flavor text.

And it doesn't say they are turrets; it says they act like turrets, referring to their ability to swivel around and acquire different targets. It does NOT mean they use the flyers BS, nor does it mean they are part of the flyer's armament.

The Attached Drones bit on p33 states that they fire as if they were passengers, except that they need to fire at the vehicles target. The only real benefit you get is that the drones can share any markerlight benefits being used to assist the flyer shooting.

The rules just state to treat them like embarked passengers. So they use their own BS (BS 2, Twin-linked) So they can only snap fire, this is another example of why the Sun shark bomber isn't worth taking.

Interestingly though, the Interceptor drones THEMSELVES may have been a good unit to have. If you could purchase them alone.

Also, I believed locked velocity forces you to move at the EXACT same speed you were going at. 18.0001 inches all the time.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
The rules just state to treat them like embarked passengers. So they use their own BS (BS 2, Twin-linked) So they can only snap fire, this is another example of why the Sun shark bomber isn't worth taking.

Interestingly though, the Interceptor drones THEMSELVES may have been a good unit to have. If you could purchase them alone.

Also, I believed locked velocity forces you to move at the EXACT same speed you were going at. 18.0001 inches all the time.

The rulebooks says "A Flyer with Locked Velocity cannot change speed for the rest of the game, but must continue to zoom at either combat or cruising speed (whichever it was using when it suffered the immobilised result)."
You get locked to either combat or cruising, not a particular movement in inches (which would be really, really impractical to determine). Moving 18.001" lets you move up to 36" at locked velocity, but moving 18" gets you stuck at 18.

Interceptor drones are actually a great unit... Jet Packs, turbo boost, twin-linked rapid fire S7AP4 at 30" or S8AP4 Large Blast (which is much more likely to hit due to Twin-linked, and much less likely to Gets Hot).

The BRB faq states that a Flyer travelling at Cruising Speed that suffers Locked Velocity travels at 36"

Trasvi wrote:

Also... I just noticed that the Sunshark can use ongoing reserves and pulse bomb generator to effectively never get hit (except by interceptors). Zoom in 36", drop pulse bomb, turboboost out 24", repeat. Mwahaha.

A Flyer is not permitted to leave the table in the same turn that it arrived. (BRB pg 80, and BRB faq)

Good old 40k FAQ's changing the rules... I should probably read them though.
According to the BRB a flyer can't move on the board and then straight off again during *movement*, but IIRC it doesn't specify turbo boosts. Sensible errata.
Oh well, I guess there is actually a difference between combat/crusing; that, and passengers firing from fire points.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

thejughead wrote:
Page entry in the codex states the drones are turrets when on the Sunshark, but disembark like passengers using the special rule to do so when the bomber is zooming.

No it doesn't. Read the actual rules for drones, and not the flavor text.

And it doesn't say they are turrets; it says they act like turrets, referring to their ability to swivel around and acquire different targets. It does NOT mean they use the flyers BS, nor does it mean they are part of the flyer's armament.

Please indicate where in the codex it states the "actual rules". Does it specifically state that the drones are passengers? Are drones on other vehicles passengers? I don't have the codex in front, but please kindly provide where the codex states the that they are embarked passengers. If I recall it states to treat them like embarked passengers in a special rule for disembarking, but I could be wrong.

Page 33 of the codex contains all the rules that are unique for drones. And yes it says they are treated like passengers when attached, aside from a few specific exceptions.

Ninja'd

The drones listed there are Missile, Shield, Gun, and Markerlight. There is no listing for Ion Cannon Drones, so why would I refer to that.

The fact that you can't use the vehicles BS for Gun drones (DF or Piranha) is something I misseed. Thanks

Trasvi wrote:
if you move exactly 18" and then suffer a locked velocity you will be locked at 18" movement: but if you move 18.001" you can still move between 18.001 and 36.

That is not true.

This is true:
FAQ p7.
Q: If a Flyer suffers Locked Velocity and was moving at Cruising Speed (18"-36"), what speed is its velocity actually locked at? (p81)
A: 36"

Edit: quote box problems


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trasvi wrote:
Moving 18.001" lets you move up to 36" at locked velocity, but moving 18" gets you stuck at 18.

This is also not true. It's locked at either 18" or 36". These are the only two distances a locked Flyer can move.

And again it says a flyer cannot enter play and leave play int he same turn. Or would you like hell turkeys to never be killed and vector strike the board to death?

It does not say because they are turbo boosting they are allowed to move off. Imo it clearly says the opposite.

I also noted this in another post, but its clearly stated in the page entry for the Sunshark. The Interceptor Drone is wargear for the Sunshark Bomber. Wargear is fired at the models BS. The entire entry never mentions the word passenger.

This means I can fire at full BS while zooming.

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
The BRB faq states that a Flyer travelling at Cruising Speed that suffers Locked Velocity travels at 36"

Trasvi wrote:

Also... I just noticed that the Sunshark can use ongoing reserves and pulse bomb generator to effectively never get hit (except by interceptors). Zoom in 36", drop pulse bomb, turboboost out 24", repeat. Mwahaha.

A Flyer is not permitted to leave the table in the same turn that it arrived. (BRB pg 80, and BRB faq)

If you guys read the previous posts, you'll see that a couple of these issues were already addressed.

thejughead wrote:
I also noted this in another post, but its clearly stated in the page entry for the Sunshark. The Interceptor Drone is wargear for the Sunshark Bomber. Wargear is fired at the models BS. The entire entry never mentions the word passenger.

This means I can fire at full BS while zooming.

Actually, oddly enough, they're not listed as wargear while other vehicles' drones are. Not that this matters, in either case you have to use the rules for attached drones.

Ugh...you right. Its under the wargear section but listed as seperate entries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well until an FAQ comes out I guess I will fly 18" or 36", disembark and fire at BS 2. Utterly, dumb.

thejughead wrote:
The drones listed there are Missile, Shield, Gun, and Markerlight. There is no listing for Ion Cannon Drones, so why would I refer to that.

The fact that you can't use the vehicles BS for Gun drones (DF or Piranha) is something I misseed. Thanks

I can't say how its presented in the physical codex, but in the iOS version it is crystal clear...there are general rules for vehicle drones, which cover all drones mounted on vehicles, which by definition would affect Ion Cannon Drones (as they start attached to a vehicle).