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So, I was thinking about the RW Command squad and I'm undecided on which banner would be best. Most of them are great. Like the Ravenwing banner would be perfect for a bum-rush Black knight list for a crap ton of hit-and-run use, but the Banner of fortitude can give out so much help to the entire army. Also, Devastation is great for a force-modifier...


And if I take sammuel, should he baby sit the command squad? have it so he absorbs more wounds?

The strongest RW lists I have seen runs as many Bikes as possible (no Special weapons, just a Multi Melta Attack Bike per squad) and combines it with the Shooty Banner which hides in a Land Raider with Power Field. With every Bike squad getting 1 guy close enough to the Land Raider the list puts out an insane number of shots, I watched to take out a Nid list including 2 Tyrants and 2 Tervigons basically just with Bolter fire.

Oh right, there are other banners beside the dakka banner!
(They made that one too good, it's all anyone ever uses.)

I know, but I'm looking on more alternatives (like my black knight list ) for when I don't have so many bolters. Also, tau and Heldrakes take cover away, so should I use the fortitude banner?

and what about sammuel guarding the command squad?

C'mon guys....any help?

I always run the Master in a Landspeeder. Your command squad should be turbo boosting between bike squads as the squads fire so the extra 205 points for 3 more wounds is not worth it at all. The master's landspeeder should be all the fire magnet you need, oh and a darkshroud.

The best RW banner is fortitude despite what you'll read here. The banner of devastation has 6" range so you have to bunch up, which means that templates and pie plates murder you. A lot of the weapons that RW specifically fear are templates and pie plates and being a bike army you cannot bring that many models so the casualties from bunching up are unaffordable. The banner of fortitude means that you can spread out and means that even if a heldrake burns you, you still get a save. This is particualrly imporatant for the knights which really benefit from 2+ cover (with turbo boost dark shroud) and 5+ FNP.
As far as Sammy goes I am rubbish at using him properly. I always want to use him to soak up wounds for the command squad but he is too expensive to just be a bullet magnet. His plasma cannon is ok but really he should be off butchering small squads on his own not baby sitting a flag. I just don't like him and prefer Azrael but in smaller games you need sammy for the flag. I also don't have a decent model for sammy which makes me biased against him....

 jamin484 wrote:
The best RW banner is fortitude despite what you'll read here. The banner of devastation has 6" range so you have to bunch up, which means that templates and pie plates murder you. A lot of the weapons that RW specifically fear are templates and pie plates and being a bike army you cannot bring that many models so the casualties from bunching up are unaffordable. The banner of fortitude means that you can spread out and means that even if a heldrake burns you, you still get a save. This is particualrly imporatant for the knights which really benefit from 2+ cover (with turbo boost dark shroud) and 5+ FNP.
As far as Sammy goes I am rubbish at using him properly. I always want to use him to soak up wounds for the command squad but he is too expensive to just be a bullet magnet. His plasma cannon is ok but really he should be off butchering small squads on his own not baby sitting a flag. I just don't like him and prefer Azrael but in smaller games you need sammy for the flag. I also don't have a decent model for sammy which makes me biased against him....

As you only need one model within 6" to gain the benefits of the banner I think you are overstating the threat of template weapons. Especially if you're running a command squad in a Crusader for the larger footprint on the banner.

 Eldarain wrote:

 jamin484 wrote:
The best RW banner is fortitude despite what you'll read here. The banner of devastation has 6" range so you have to bunch up, which means that templates and pie plates murder you. A lot of the weapons that RW specifically fear are templates and pie plates and being a bike army you cannot bring that many models so the casualties from bunching up are unaffordable. The banner of fortitude means that you can spread out and means that even if a heldrake burns you, you still get a save. This is particualrly imporatant for the knights which really benefit from 2+ cover (with turbo boost dark shroud) and 5+ FNP.
As far as Sammy goes I am rubbish at using him properly. I always want to use him to soak up wounds for the command squad but he is too expensive to just be a bullet magnet. His plasma cannon is ok but really he should be off butchering small squads on his own not baby sitting a flag. I just don't like him and prefer Azrael but in smaller games you need sammy for the flag. I also don't have a decent model for sammy which makes me biased against him....

As you only need one model within 6" to gain the benefits of the banner I think you are overstating the threat of template weapons. Especially if you're running a command squad in a Crusader for the larger footprint on the banner.

You need 1 model within 6" but you will have at least 3 and up to 6 or 8 units (dependent on combat squads) near the banner if you use RW. Honestly, it is difficult to spread the models, be within 6 of the banner, be within 24 of a suitable enemy, and have LOS without bunching your bikes up. You have to remember that the bike base's shape also contributes to their template vulnerability. Personally I wouldn't run a crusader with RW because it is unaffordable and means that you will not be able to make full use of the bikes main asset, manoeuvrability. A lot of pie plates like shooting at Land raiders as well as bikes e.g. Basilisk, medusa, vidicator, warp hunter, Shookk attack gun etc. The real problem with the dakka banner and templates isn't that each template will kill a lot of models, it is that they cannot miss. Even if they scatter they will hit something and that is painful for an army which cannot bring many models to the table.

Hmmm, that does make sense... and I'm guessing the more people bring banners, the more people know counters?

 Volkov wrote:
Your command squad should be turbo boosting between bike squads as the squads fire

Huh, that's a pretty cool point. I'll have to tell my RW playing buddy about that. Should be even more difficult to win now >.>

so which would be better? Azreal and Devastation command squad riding in an LRC, or sammuel driving around with a RW command squad?

If you're not playing competitively Azzie and the banner are the easiest. There are several tourney lists that simply don't care about your 24" wall of bolter death, they're going to shoot the LRC until it pops (DE are great at this) and then take you apart piecemeal.

If you run Sammy don't tie him down with the combat squad, run him solo or with an RAS squad, that's one more unit with Skilled Rider, better cover saves and you don't care about terrain anymore.

EDIT: The Azzie list needs another HQ to carry the PFG to give the LRC the 4++, Azzie only protects his unit. So you're looking at 295 in your HQ minimum (Techmarine w/PFG is the cheapest option)

ah, yea.... that is a bit expensive.

And how do you protect the RW command squad? turbo-boost all the time?

One way to make the RWCommandSquad tougher is to take a master libbie and a techmarine on bikes and attack them to it. With luck youll get invisibility from the libbie and 2+ armor from the techmarine and 3 more wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you go the Azrael/LRC route, take a techmarine as a 2nd HQ and give him the PFG. Id keep Azrael in the back protecting some flakk missiles.

Tech marine is not an HQ. he is unlocked like a command squad, and doesn't take up any slot