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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Normally if i am trying to be competitive and not goofing off i rely on a good bikernob missile (5-6 + warboss) as well as a blob of boyz (60-90 depending on the points) as the bulk of my army.

Against just about every race, it does fine if i play them right. The exception (so far) is the DE's Seer Council.

How do orks deal with them? Theyre on bikes, 3+ 4++ T4 models that are pretty nasty in the melee and decently good at the shooting with rerollable ANY saves and love to cast Doom on whatever unit therye after to reroll to wound as well. They cost less than my bikernobz and even eat them up in melee because that rerollable 3+ 4++ is impossible to get by. They have no AP in melee, so i thought MANz, but the problem there is thats SNP vs Jetbikes....if my MANz get the charge then my opponent slipped up hardcore and deserves to lose that unit.

Lootas dont work as thats the firs thing they charge at. They turn 1 turboboost 36" to my side of the table and turn 2 charge my lootas.

Ive faced this unit about 7-8 times or so, each time i did MAYBE 1-2 wounds to it the entire game while it wrecked half my army.

I need help badly lol. Two players in my group refuse to play without them (even if it seems weird to bring it) so i need to find a way to deal with it.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Not sure if you did this already but lootas in smaller groups can help if you know you will be charged right off the bat. burnas can give pause to a unit about to charge unfortunately sharing FoC slot with the lootas. Wrapping your loota's with boyz or gretchin can give you another round of shooting. Putting the lootas in a BW can give them mobility but with snap fire. Maybe big gunz gretchin around your lootas. or you can try your Manz in a truck to force them to assault them before you hit their line (depending what else they have).
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Usually have a spare elite slot so i could try mixing a group of burnas with the lootas. Would leave one open, but better that than both.

In this case losing a number of boyz wont hurt me. This unit eats them alive, they dont even cause a single wound 90% of the time thx to that gay 3+ rerollable armor. So i could see the burna idea being feasible. If they manage to assault the lootas and ignore the burnas right next to them i could assault w/o attacking for AP3 attacks, bit better of a chance.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






You can try to force a lot of high-strength saves on them. Dakka jets, lootaz or bikes can do that. You might fall victim to lucky saves though - with rerolls, that is not completely unlikely to happen.

The best option is usually to tarpit them ("Here, have your 700 point unit kill 30 boyz for the next two turns!"), or bait them away from your army. Parking a battlewagon just within charge range often does the trick. If they move 15" or more away from the core of your army to pick off that battlewagon, you'll have some breathing space to pick off the rest off the army. It works even best when the battlewagon(or trukk) is carrying boyz and moving in the general direction of an objective. If you're lucky, they need anther turn to clean up the boyz that fell out of the vehicle. You might even be able to tarpit him with kanz, as Witchblades aren't exactly awesome against vehicles anymore.

Basically, make him waste his time. The more time his deathstar is wasting fighting inefficient fights, the more likely you are to win the game. My most common opponent fields a seer council almost every game, and it's usually better to not take them head-on, unless we are talking about 10 nob bikers and a warboss.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

High strength doesnt mean much, theyre single wound models anyway. Seeing as how orks lack AP3 shots i cant get by the armor either (which would at least make him reroll 4++ instead of 3+, better odds).

Never thought about kanz. I usually dont even use my heavy slots, so that would be a viable option. Or dredds for that matter (probably not, i just like to be wishful cuz i have a sick kustomed deffdredd that i never field...looks like a giant mutated ork).
Kannons can pen the armor i know but its a single shot from each kannon. Even if i landed all 9 (filling up the FOC) every time hes still going to cause one hell of a beating before i kill them. Though still better odds than loota spam getting 1shotted.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy






Juneau, Alaska

Any chance of fielding any Big Gunz? Kannons alone with the Krak rounds are an STR8 AP3 and the Grots are pretty good shots, especially if they miss and you feed an Ammo Runt into the Kannon for the re-roll!

"Orkses never loses a battle. If we win, we win, if we die, we die fightin' so it don't count. It we runs for it we don't die neither, cose we can come back for annuver go, see!"
-The Gospel according to Ork.

8000pts of WAAAGH!
Indiorkalypse Koltz - Ork BB Team

Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/546562.page#5955022
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Depends, do they take Invisibility + Fortune for a rerollable 2+ cover? Because at that point the best you can do is attempt to tie them up and posture/minimize the damage they do.


Bee beep boo baap 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Kanz wont be a good idea, As each warlock is quite capable of penning armour 10 (11?) and there are bound to be at least 2 spears on the unit, each being str 9 against vehicals. That Kan unit wont last a single turn, neither will the Battlewagon, i dont know its stats but can it survive at least 4 str 9 attacks to its rear, plus a load of str 3 armourbane? Burners wont work unless in a Trukk, and even then... If not in a trukk he simply wont booste into flamer range, and with premeasuring he will be just outside it. Next turn he flys up to you, heavey flamers YOU and multi-charges both Burners and Loota's, almost definatly braking both.

What has me confused is that you are saying DE, as in Dark eldar? By this do you mean its a seer council allied with Dark eldar, or worse, does it include the Baron for a 2+ re-rollable invulnerable + stealth? Mobbing it with a shoota hoarde seems best, but with the likelyhood of him getting the charge you can at least throw up a storm of bullets before he hits your lines. If you NEED to beat this unit ally with eldar yourself, Runes of Warding will WREAK his ass. Suddenly his fortune fails half the time, does a wound every 3 times and you get yourself a warwalker squadren for that awesome str 6 spam.

 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




In my game room playing Specialist GW games

It won't actually wreck the seer council if the Ork player takes an Eldar farseer as well because most likely the origional Eldar player will have brought Runes of Witnessing in addition to Runes of Warding. So Runes of Witnessing cancel out an opposing farseers Runes of Warding according to the most recent Eldar FAQ.

Then there is the possibility of the origional Eldar player taking embolden on one of the seer council Warlocks so the Farseer can re roll failed leadership tests..i.e...12 or above on 3 dice for the psychic test to cast spells.

About the only real counter to the spells the seer council can cast are Space Wolf Rune Priests within 24 inches of the Farseer as he tries to cast.

Other than that there really isn't much you can do to stop them from casting the spells they will need.

Having said that, as an Ork player, it can be hard to deal with them now that they can have misfortune to cast on whatever unit they plan to kill.
Believe it or not the most dangerous Ork unit I've run into for my council was a full unit of Flash Gitz. They ignore the cover save for jinking, as well as for invisibility. And they can cause enough AP 3 hits to really put a hurt on the seer council. Forcing the seer council into having to take multiple saves that ignore their cover and armour is the way to kill them.

If you can get the council to take only a 4+ invul that is re rollable, instead of a 2+ cover or 3+ Armour that is re rollable, you will see the council dissappear quickly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/15 17:21:15


"Khorne is a noble warrior who respects strength and bravery, who takes no joy in destroying the weak, and considers the helpless unworthy of his wrath. It is said that fate will spare any brave warrior who calls upon Khorne's name and pledges his soul to the blood god. It is also said that Khorne's daemons will hunt down and destroy any warrior who betrays his honour by killing a helpless innocent or murdering in cold blood..."

from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Vineheart01 wrote:
High strength doesnt mean much, theyre single wound models anyway. Seeing as how orks lack AP3 shots i cant get by the armor either (which would at least make him reroll 4++ instead of 3+, better odds).

Never thought about kanz. I usually dont even use my heavy slots, so that would be a viable option. Or dredds for that matter (probably not, i just like to be wishful cuz i have a sick kustomed deffdredd that i never field...looks like a giant mutated ork).
Kannons can pen the armor i know but its a single shot from each kannon. Even if i landed all 9 (filling up the FOC) every time hes still going to cause one hell of a beating before i kill them. Though still better odds than loota spam getting 1shotted.


High strength is important because you wound on 2+. More wounds, more saves. Shootas don't do the trick, because while having more shots, wounding on 4+ against biked eldar eats up too much of the firepower. The orks trick to beat armor has always been to force more saves, because more dice mean more failed saves.

However, a council only fails a save 1/9 of the time, so you are better off just negating them, rather than killing them. They can only kill an absolute maximum of 7 Units over the course of an entire game, one each turn, unless you are careless. If you are lucky, the game ends after turn 5, and he could have killed no more than 5. Every turn they spend just moving around without charging or shooting something to death is a lot of efficiency lost for him. If the seer council only manages to kill three units over the course of a game, each of those units better cost 250 points a piece - highly unlikely in an ork army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Kanz wont be a good idea, As each warlock is quite capable of penning armour 10 (11?) and there are bound to be at least 2 spears on the unit, each being str 9 against vehicals. That Kan unit wont last a single turn, neither will the Battlewagon, i dont know its stats but can it survive at least 4 str 9 attacks to its rear, plus a load of str 3 armourbane? Burners wont work unless in a Trukk, and even then... If not in a trukk he simply wont booste into flamer range, and with premeasuring he will be just outside it. Next turn he flys up to you, heavey flamers YOU and multi-charges both Burners and Loota's, almost definatly braking both.


The battlewagon is not supposed to last. It's supposed to draw the council away from your army. Or park it where they want to go next turn, so they are force to either attack it, wasting a turn, or move around it. They can move over obstacles right in front of them, but they can't do a thing about something thats sitting at their target location. This includes a dakkajet flying base, by the way.
In addition, if you every get multi-charged in 6th, that's completely your fault. A model may only multi-charge if it has absolutely no way of getting into combat with the original unit, and does not break coherency. Add random charge range to that, and your opponent will never be able to make a planned multi-assault.
Also, if does the described thing to your burnaz, that's 700 points doing nothing for a turn. Awesome! Next turn, just move and run away with your burnaz, and hope he does the same thing again.
You beat the council by assuming that it's an invincible force of nature (or paladins). Dodge, block, delay it. Do not attempt to kill it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/16 07:02:10


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





McKenzie, TN

Jetseer councils really are best against horde armies due to the destructors and the AP - on their CC weapons doesn't hurt as much. MSU tends to work really well against them as they will always overkill one squad a turn and thereby their damage is severly limited.

Alternatively try bubble wrapping your lootas with 2 units of boyz/grotz/cheap stuff. Then just multicharge 2 units into him after he turbo boosts in to kill your lootas he will overwatch one to near death but the other will hold him for a while. The jetseer council can only kill ~5 boyz a turn on a good day in CC. The lootas will eat through the jetcouncil relatively well if they leave them alone.

Alternatively they should be coming into flamer range of your mob so are you getting to counter charge him after he flames you then JSJ back away? Also when your biker boyz get into combat with him is this happening away from your mob or nearby? If it happens away from the mob your really need to use the bikerz as a counter attack unit rather than fighting him where he wants. That way you can charge him with several units of boyz and overwhelm him quickly.

Don't forget to challenge, he will not accept and it will reduce his damage output by one model. If he does accept congrats you likely just killed a jetseer or (gasp) a farseer.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

This edition, Orks have it easier to deal with them in cc, because fearless units which loose a round in cc do not suffer from additional wounds.

Lootas dont work as thats the firs thing they charge at. They turn 1 turboboost 36" to my side of the table and turn 2 charge my lootas.

You have to position the Lootas so that the Seers cannot reach them, e.g., by deploying two full Ork mobz in front of them.
When the Seers charge, swamp them with Boyz and they will cripple.

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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

 wuestenfux wrote:
This edition, Orks have it easier to deal with them in cc, because fearless units which loose a round in cc do not suffer from additional wounds.

Lootas dont work as thats the firs thing they charge at. They turn 1 turboboost 36" to my side of the table and turn 2 charge my lootas.

You have to position the Lootas so that the Seers cannot reach them, e.g., by deploying two full Ork mobz in front of them.
When the Seers charge, swamp them with Boyz and they will cripple.


Where can i do that? theyre jetbikes so unless i have a blob of grots/boyz b2b with them (or close enough so theres no gap for the 1inch from enemy models rule) he can just go over them anyway. My last game i actually had my lootas perched on top of a large rock that was in my deploymentzone giving them a birdseye view of the battlefield and unchargable as only jetbikes (hence, these damn warlocks) or jetpack/jumppack can get up there at them.

So far its sounding like i need to have 2+ groups of boyz hit them or use kannons to force 4++ saves instead of letting him have 3+.
Normally i would be fine just sending my biker missile out to deal with the long range support they got, since the seer council tends to eat up everything in their army except either a few other random bikers or some....forget the name but some big skimmer tank that has a crystal at the end of its gun barrel and it eats armor alive. However in past experience they just surround my bikers and despite being a very awesome unit they cant deal with 3+ units charging them first lol.
Prior to the FAQ about hitting units out of range they always took a flamer of some sort, i forget what hes been taking in its place but it isnt as lethal atleast.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
 
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