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So a while a go me and my friend had a battle, and he made a remark about how difficult my lychguard were to kill, (this was in fifth edition) and I said well they do have hyper-advanced tower shields. And recently I thought it would be cool if they had a special rule to represent just how their big shields could be made more protective by making a shield wall. So here it is.

Shield wall
When lychguard go to ground, either voluntary or because of failed pinning, the add the +1 to their invulnerable save rather than their cover save.

Broken. Don't use it. Make it increase the cover save instead.

A more appropriate rule would be that Fortress of Shields (or whatever) thing that the Dark Angels have.

IIRC, its "if any model with this skill is in base to base contact with two other models with this skill it gains +1 Toughness"

That tower of shields thing could work but it would make Lychguard T6, which with an invuln as well would be broken as hell.

How about saying that any unit charging Lychguard with shields counts as a disordered charge as they are pushed back by the shields?

Necroes wrote:Broken. Don't use it. Make it increase the cover save instead.

Making it increase the cover save wouldn't make any sense.
They'd be utilising their shields in a more effective manner.
Their shields grant invuln saves, not cover saves.
Therefore they should get an enhancement to their invuln save.

Also why do you think it is broken? Trading moving for an increase in survivability seems fair to me.

Dakkamite wrote:A more appropriate rule would be that Fortress of Shields (or whatever) thing that the Dark Angels have.

IIRC, its "if any model with this skill is in base to base contact with two other models with this skill it gains +1 Toughness"

As rohansoldier said, that would be kind of broken. Also I don't see how more effective use of a shield makes you tougher.

rohansoldier wrote:That tower of shields thing could work but it would make Lychguard T6, which with an invuln as well would be broken as hell.

How about saying that any unit charging Lychguard with shields counts as a disordered charge as they are pushed back by the shields?

Hmmm, I could see that. Although wouldn't it be simpler to say they count as having defensive grenades?

rohansoldier wrote:
That tower of shields thing could work but it would make Lychguard T6, which with an invuln as well would be broken as hell.

It wouldn't be that bad - As a comparison, wraithguard in the eldar dex can end up with av T6 and any of the following - 2++ character at the front to tank wounds, 2+ cover, 4++, 4+ FNP (with all the saves being re-rollable.)

They'd just need to be expensive IMO.

Lychguard are already expensive, they are 45ppm.

or formations.
Like phalanxes.

Or if they get shot from the direction of how the shields are pointed then they get a +1 Invul

Or....just let them mix and match shields and scythes...and I'd take them all the time

However, given the dark angels precedent, the +1 toughness makes more sense. They still only have a 3+ armor save

Necroes wrote:
Broken. Don't use it. Make it increase the cover save instead.

"When lychguard go to ground, either voluntary or because of failed pinning, the add the +1 to their invulnerable save rather than their cover save."

They've went to ground. That means they can't do anything until your next shooting phase.

Why is that broken? Even if you don't kill them, they are still stuck there.

What's broken about them having a 3++ save? Do you not face TH+SS Terminators regularly?

I'd be happy with a 3++.

Heck, their shields are twice the size of storm shields

 Heartless wrote:

Necroes wrote:
Broken. Don't use it. Make it increase the cover save instead.

"When lychguard go to ground, either voluntary or because of failed pinning, the add the +1 to their invulnerable save rather than their cover save."

They've went to ground. That means they can't do anything until your next shooting phase.

Why is that broken? Even if you don't kill them, they are still stuck there.

What's broken about them having a 3++ save? Do you not face TH+SS Terminators regularly?

I've got nothing against a 3++ save. As a Tau player, I basically have nothing that gets that kind of save, but I have no qualms with going against one. Especially in 6th edition, where I don't have to worry about getting past a cover save before, and potentially an armor save after.

I think it's broken because it's basically a way to mitigate the negative for getting pinned. Yes, the primary negative is that they don't get to move, but now they get a bonus to their invulnerable save for it? At best, it would have to be taken as an upgrade to the squad. A few extra points per model, at least. Just outright getting it by default would be make them unbalanced, if not exactly broken.

The biggest killer for a CC is loss of movement.
I think that +1 ++ save makes sense as a negative to the movement.

They are slow as hell, dont really hit all that much so they need something in their favour.

As rohansoldier said, that would be kind of broken. Also I don't see how more effective use of a shield makes you tougher

Thats exactly how the actual rule works.

It makes you tougher because its just an abstract way of making the unit more survivable. We could also make it 2+ armour saves or something, but I figure, why not just use the example rule already given by GW?

Perhaps to balance it out, models moving in such a shield wall are slowed down as though going through difficult terrain. The wall also cannot be maintained through difficult terrain.

 Dakkamite wrote:

As rohansoldier said, that would be kind of broken. Also I don't see how more effective use of a shield makes you tougher

Thats exactly how the actual rule works.

It makes you tougher because its just an abstract way of making the unit more survivable. We could also make it 2+ armour saves or something, but I figure, why not just use the example rule already given by GW?

Perhaps to balance it out, models moving in such a shield wall are slowed down as though going through difficult terrain. The wall also cannot be maintained through difficult terrain.

I kind of like that idea, but maybe make it so you chose weather or not to use it in your opponents shoot phase then move as though in difficult terrain threw out you next turn. And of course be for you can use it you'd need all the lychguard in base to base contact.