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Hello, well me and a friend have different opinions on this rule for Supporting Fire.

Supporting Fire: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch.

This rule to me tells me that all models in the unit with the special rule can fire as long as the unit is within 6". Not just models within the unit that are 6" range.
Although my friend says its just models within the unit that are 6" range.

If anyone could give some clarification regarding this it would be appreciated.

As I see it, you are correct. If the unit is within 6 inches anyone in the unit can fire as long as their guns are in range (you're playing Tau - I think it's fair to say that they're very likely to be in range).

 Fezman wrote:
As I see it, you are correct. If the unit is within 6 inches anyone in the unit can fire as long as their guns are in range (you're playing Tau - I think it's fair to say that they're very likely to be in range).

I'd agree with 100%

Wow I think this is gona make for some serious conga-line shenanigans... imagine this if you will, a 'pack' of massed firewarriors and a 'bait' conga line of firewarriors stretching out to the front, perfect for objective holding as the pack simply overwatch shoots anything that threatens to push the conga-line off. And if the enemy avoid assaults for this reason you just continue to out shoot them, Tau being pretty reliable when it comes to high S shooting...

EDIT: One thought... does that mean 'supporting units' can essentially overwatch for a unit already in combat that is being assaulted again?

The thing to remember about overwatch conga'ing is that you still have to be in half range to Rapid Fire with the secondary units, I believe.

There's also the fact that if a unit Overwatches as Supporting Fire, then gets charged itself, it can't Overwatch, so really you want to keep your units tight to avoid getting two-pronged.

Interesting "all friendly models" is not the same as "all friendly units" do you think people will make that distinction?

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
Wow I think this is gona make for some serious conga-line shenanigans... imagine this if you will, a 'pack' of massed firewarriors and a 'bait' conga line of firewarriors stretching out to the front, perfect for objective holding as the pack simply overwatch shoots anything that threatens to push the conga-line off. And if the enemy avoid assaults for this reason you just continue to out shoot them, Tau being pretty reliable when it comes to high S shooting...

EDIT: One thought... does that mean 'supporting units' can essentially overwatch for a unit already in combat that is being assaulted again?

Well I would assume that the conga line would work providing that the unit that was supporting was within 6" and the weapons that were being fired were in range of the target unit then yes I would say so. As for the support fire to a unit already in combat being charged by a 2nd enemy unit in a different turn. I dont know but to me I dont see why not but I wouldnt think so. If anyone else can clarify on this that would be great news If it was allowed.

Thanks for the feedback I thought I was right but I wanted a 2nd opinion. If anyone disagrees with me please let me know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think this rule is questionable to some degree. A simple re wording of the rule would make it more obvious.
Perhaps...

Supporting Fire: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch. (actual rule)

Supporting Fire: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in a unit that is within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch. (Edited)

When you put the rules side by side like that It seems to me that your friend might actually be right.....it might just be models and not the whole squad......i read it as the whole squad because that makes sense and because then you have to choose to support your homies and not overwatch for yourself if it comes to it....idividual models would also be a much bigger pain to keep track of lol

First time I read it the wording made perfect sense and still does.

It works alot like the wording for cover or any of the other model/unit distinctions, such as ethereal bubbles for example.

It says a UNIT with one model within 6" of a unit being shot at can overwatch as well.

Same as ethereal 12" bubbles, it is not models within 12" its any unit with at least 1 model within 12" gets the benefit.

GW has tried for the most part to get rid of the models in range issue as it slows play and causes arguements, but they have not succeeded on all account.

OK, the issue is that the wording seems ambiguous.

SO:

Actual Wording: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch.

To break it apart:

When an enemy charges
all friendly models with this special rule
in units within 6" of the unit being charged
can choose to fire overwatch.

So - The qualifying is:
Is the enemy Charging? Yes ->continue
Does the Friendly model have the Supporting Fire special rule? Yes -> continue
Is the unit the model is in within the charge target? Yes ->
Then -> They may fire overwatch

If you try to make it say:
When an enemy charges
all friendly models with this special rule within 6" of the unit being charged
can choose to fire overwatch.

You are completely missing the unit reference

IIRC, the unit being charged doesn't need the Supporting Fire rule. Just the units that are within 6"

Instead of Fire Warriors the conga line could be kroot.

 Grey Templar wrote:
IIRC, the unit being charged doesn't need the Supporting Fire rule. Just the units that are within 6"

Instead of Fire Warriors the conga line could be kroot.

That pretty much how I interpret it as well, since it makes no real difference if the unit BEING charged has the rule or not, since its the supporting units that do the shooting, so it puts kroot in front and firewarriors supporting. Exactly how it is reflected in fluff.

 Grey Templar wrote:
IIRC, the unit being charged doesn't need the Supporting Fire rule. Just the units that are within 6"

Instead of Fire Warriors the conga line could be kroot.

^This, this is rude. haha

I found a use for Kroot.

Thank you, you are most welcome

Sounds perfect for Kroot.

 Crawdadr wrote:
Interesting "all friendly models" is not the same as "all friendly units" do you think people will make that distinction?

This this this.

Cannot stress it enough.

Good lord i thought everyone understood this is to make kroot wrapped firebases for dang sure!

My list for instance will have a big ol kroot bubble wrapping 2 firewarrior teams with an ethereal.

The kroot get to overwatch (with the ethereals +1 shot) and all the firewarriors supporting fire the kroot.

If you set it up right, the crisis suits, gun drone units, riptides, long strike...they can all join in on the fun!

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
Wow I think this is gona make for some serious conga-line shenanigans... imagine this if you will, a 'pack' of massed firewarriors and a 'bait' conga line of firewarriors stretching out to the front, perfect for objective holding as the pack simply overwatch shoots anything that threatens to push the conga-line off. And if the enemy avoid assaults for this reason you just continue to out shoot them, Tau being pretty reliable when it comes to high S shooting...

EDIT: One thought... does that mean 'supporting units' can essentially overwatch for a unit already in combat that is being assaulted again?

This is probably the mainstay of my new tau army. I have a line of 16 Kroot advancing with 4 FW squads around them, maybe with Cadre Fireblades.

Ok does anybody else think that an entire army (well most commonly used units) being able to, essentially, overwatch every time one unit at the front gets charged might be quite over powering...

Simply put if the entire army is within 6" of the charged unit due to its maximized spacing........ see where this is going?

Only way I can see around this is multiple long distance charging to (hopefully) avoid rapid fire...

The units have to be within 6" of the unit being charged, plus have actual range.

Also, units can still only overwatch once.

So aside from a kroot conga line getting the entire tau army to overwatch that one assaulting unit its really just ok.

You basically get to do serious overwatch damage on one assaulting unit a turn, the second unit assaulting isn't going to suffer the same fate.

They get to fire overwatch...look up overwatch...range has nothing to do with it,

A unit gets to fire overwatch if they are within 6 inches of a unit getting assualted.

Range does have everything to do with it, you still measure shooting range as normal. So if supporting firewarriors are over 15" from the charging unit they won't get the second shot.

The only weapon which range doesn't matter with overwatch is a weapon with Wall of Death.

J0kerrMT wrote:
They get to fire overwatch...look up overwatch...range has nothing to do with it,

A unit gets to fire overwatch if they are within 6 inches of a unit getting assualted.

They can fire as long as they are in range. Page 21 brb.

My bad...reread the rule..still 30" is a long way.

Wait... to the OP, do you mean to say that supporting fire stacks? No way... way too strong. Imagine that, you strategically place squads of fire warriors 6 inches away from each other.... screw firing normally, just get charged.

@jaygonx

Thats the point of the rule.

If they are within 6" of a unit being charged, they overwatch as though they were being overwatched It does not say only 1 unit may do it, but it does say that it counts as their one overwatch so they cannot perform more (unless its fancy-pants Longstrike since he can overwatch anyone thats charging even if its 15 diff units)

I sincerely doubt its suppose to be a model by model basis. For one, they wouldnt even mention the word Unit if this was true, and for two this would be pointless unless the units were side by side (which is suicide if theres any templates on the table) since you could only overwatch with 2-3 models from a unit and that would still count as their 1 overwatch for the phase. Basically rendering the whole rule worthless unless you sit in suicidally close quarters (or its a riptide/hammerhead)

Macdaddy wrote:
Supporting Fire: When an enemy charges, all friendly models with this special rule in units within 6" of the unit being charged can choose to fire overwatch.

The rules work like this:

Friendly unit is charged
Is there a friendly unit within 6" of the unit being charged?
Yes
Does that unit have models with the "Supporting Fire" rule?
Yes
Models with the "Supporting Fire" rule may now perform overwatch per the instructions laid out in the entry for "Supporting Fire."

The reason why it says "All Friendly Models" and not "All Friendly Units" is in case a mixed unit consisting of models with and without "Supporting Fire" is in the situation mentioned above. "Supporting Fire" is not a conferrable special rule so you can't look at everything strictly unit-to-unit.

jaygonx wrote:
Wait... to the OP, do you mean to say that supporting fire stacks? No way... way too strong. Imagine that, you strategically place squads of fire warriors 6 inches away from each other.... screw firing normally, just get charged.

This is how the rule works. It is supposed to make a Tau gunline more resilient than other gunlines, and rightfully so. Also, at effective BS1, Supporting Fire is a great tool to have but not exactly a tactical doctrine. Use it as insurance but not a primary tactic.

The 6" rule only measures from the unit getting charged though, it does not chain through multiple units like a Necron tesla weapon or anything. The Tau unit being charged essentially becomes a bubble that presents the opportunity for other Tau to use "Supporting Fire."

One question on supporting fire, say if I charge a throw away unit at a squad which has units that can supporting fire, and they make it in. If I charge another unit at the unit already engaged, could that unit be overwatched?

MarkyMark wrote:
One question on supporting fire, say if I charge a throw away unit at a squad which has units that can supporting fire, and they make it in. If I charge another unit at the unit already engaged, could that unit be overwatched?

Just as long as you dont go over your maximum once per round overwatch i would imagine it would be legal, since the squad overwatching is not the one being charged i bet you could be able to do that.

As for the awesomeness of overwatch, I can attest it in the single game ive played of the new codex, wherein my DE opponent decided to charge his beast pack into my FW/Ethereal squad as a last ditch attack to get my warlord. Needless to say it failed, because the ethereal gun buff, plus one more FW squad, plus broadsides (gotta love SMS on 5+ armor) plus a Riptide, plus longstrike. Sadly enough i did not even purposely plan this maneuver as I was bunched up to take advantage of line of sight, but it shows just how powerful it can be. Next time im going to string a 20 man kroot squad across my entire firebase for supporting fire. For the Greater Meatshield!

I've already seen it used to great effect. The mini wargaming guys did a vid last week. Dave took 100 cultist and made them one big squad with the fearless and mob rule on them. Matt kill all of them before they even got into combat. He had 2 full fire warrior squads and an ethereal. Was brutal. Not sure how to play my orks against tau now. I've just been grabing my local tau player for team games and be his meat shield. Seems to work but I would like to be able to play against him on occasion.