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Well, at the very least they've got breathing room for February.

But seriously, if they expect 3-4 months to do tests, run full production, ship to the states and fire off the boxes, they're going to need the first slot their factory has, pray for zero showstopper issues, and hit things at a run.

Like, no more of this "it's a big, complicated, slow process, takes time, don't want to rush it, give you the 98% final awesomeness you demand, etc". Things will need to happen, and they'll have to happen quickly.

I'm skeptical. Willing to see them out, but if they want something other than mockery, the March/April updates are going to have to contain some concrete good news to even have a chance of it happening.

Of course, even with shipping in June or July, I wouldn't expect to actually have my box in hand until August anyway.

Maybe September.

Which is to say that I'm pretty sure I'm on their gak list, and thus will probably be mailed last. :-P

 Forar wrote:
Like, no more of this "it's a big, complicated, slow process, takes time, don't want to rush it, give you the 98% final awesomeness you demand, etc". Things will need to happen, and they'll have to happen quickly.

I'm skeptical. Willing to see them out, but if they want something other than mockery, the March/April updates are going to have to contain some concrete good news to even have a chance of it happening.

It might be more accurate to say that they'd need the March/April updates to contain some polystyrene good news to have a chance of May/June happening.

I don't why some of the hate on wave shipping but to each there own. I guess. I just don't want them to rush it out the door with bad details an such just to make gencon.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
I don't why some of the hate on wave shipping but to each there own. I guess. I just don't want them to rush it out the door with bad details an such just to make gencon.

Delays =/= better Quality. It may be constantly used as an excuse for supposedly ensuring quality to cover up poor project and resource management though but the two are not interchangeable.

You have to remember that the announcement of split shipping by definition has delayed the complete fulfillment of the kickstarter from last week's unrealistic (except to ND/Palladium) "spring" to "fall". That's an extra half year of delays being spun as "good news" when it's clearly not.. it's simply the best of a BAD situation. Dont' get me wrong... split shipping at this point after 15+ months of apparently inadequate development and work is the best solution but it's hardly a "good solution". At best, it's making lemonade from lemons and for people who simply took Palladium at their word and don't follow every armchair quarterback assessment or offsite Official but not on the KS update it's nothing more than another 6 month delay on top of the 6 months they already announced (revised October date to "spring") till they get all their stuff.

Again, I'm glad that they're doing this and that they're footing the bill since I feel it's the right thing to do... but I understand why people who pledged for their first kickstarter based on the starting page propaganda, only followed the unrealistic updates kept telling us how well they were doing, and now are unahppy when they find out that some of their stuff won't arrive till around a year after the day after KS update otpimistically hinted at.

 Red Comet wrote:
I'm holding my breath on actually getting the Wave 1 stuff by May or June. I really do not expect that to occur at all. The delays for this game have been saddening but at least they finally gave us something. Time to breathe half a sigh of relief.

I would agree with you, but this smells more like a self serving tool for PB. "Hey, we want to sell oodles of this stuff at our new jacked up prices at Gencon. But we said we'd give all these 'yahoos' their stuff first, hmm. What to do, what to do..."

So I do like that we're going to get some of it in June, but , I'd really like to think that they weren't a bunch of tools who didn't give a about us. But nothing points to anything different.

Frankly I'm surprised it's not coming out 2015. Only because of the info by Paulson. I'm just worried they might cut corners just to make GC.

I'd say part of the terms of the licence renewal might require getting the game out ASAP.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
I'm holding my breath on actually getting the Wave 1 stuff by May or June. I really do not expect that to occur at all. The delays for this game have been saddening but at least they finally gave us something. Time to breathe half a sigh of relief.

I would agree with you, but this smells more like a self serving tool for PB. "Hey, we want to sell oodles of this stuff at our new jacked up prices at Gencon. But we said we'd give all these 'yahoos' their stuff first, hmm. What to do, what to do..."

So I do like that we're going to get some of it in June, but , I'd really like to think that they weren't a bunch of tools who didn't give a about us. But nothing points to anything different.

I'm completely fine with self serving tools for PB/ND as long as it *ALSO* benefits me in some way. Like I said earlier, they're try to make the best of a bad situation (that they themselves created).

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Frankly I'm surprised it's not coming out 2015. Only because of the info by Paulson. I'm just worried they might cut corners just to make GC.

What info by Paulson? And how does it relate to PB not understanding how to get miniatures made, and ND being incredibly slow in digitally producing the sculpts, and apparently which order they were working on them?

besides their reputation in general PB is working on something that is new to them , granted with help, but new, so naturally there are misgivings and any issue will raise loud voices of the naysayers. I do not think they have worked efficiently or effectively BUT I am also fully aware that I am not aware of the inner workings and progress of this from start to finish. I've given them more latitude than most. I am curious to see how things progress from here. Hopefully they will meet these expectations that they have set for themselves. If not things are going to get messy.

Mike1975 wrote:
Hopefully they will meet these expectations that they have set for themselves. If not things are going to get messy.

Even when we get our first batch there will always be those who will not be happy. From the update pics what they've shown so far has been pretty good. I guess there're saving the best for last. Get the zentradi out of the way then move on to the rdf mecha. But as long as the quality is there most of us will be happy. Maybe even BS.

 warboss wrote:

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
I'm holding my breath on actually getting the Wave 1 stuff by May or June. I really do not expect that to occur at all. The delays for this game have been saddening but at least they finally gave us something. Time to breathe half a sigh of relief.

I would agree with you, but this smells more like a self serving tool for PB. "Hey, we want to sell oodles of this stuff at our new jacked up prices at Gencon. But we said we'd give all these 'yahoos' their stuff first, hmm. What to do, what to do..."

So I do like that we're going to get some of it in June, but , I'd really like to think that they weren't a bunch of tools who didn't give a about us. But nothing points to anything different.

I'm completely fine with self serving tools for PB/ND as long as it *ALSO* benefits me in some way. Like I said earlier, they're try to make the best of a bad situation (that they themselves created).

Pretty much this. The only issue I have is if the quality is absolute crap and the miniatures I paid for end up being total garbage. I don't mind waiting for this stuff to come out if it means higher quality.

And yet on that token, imagine how pissed people will be if they take an extra 6-12 months on at least part of the product line and it's still crap. And not "omg there's a tiny mold line on one leg, WHOLE MODEL RUINED!", but actual legit critique and issues that should've been considered dealbreakers by reasonable people.

Not to say that'll be the case, just agree with Warboss' point that extra time doesn't equal quality. It means there's no excuse about 'being rushed', and any issues or failings land right at their feet accordingly.

According to my napkin math, I'll have 552 figures coming across those 8 boxes (with the remainder and some add ons due in October of 2025 or whenever), of which 207 will actually be mine (the rest going to my cr... guys), of which I'm currently planning on keeping 102. Realizing I have 300+ minis lined up to arrive this year (maybe, maaaaybe) and that storage space in a downtown condo being what it is, I'm definitely leaning towards trimming that down, saving myself some crazy amounts of assembly/painting time, and having to properly store/find transport for it all.

Hell, making back some cash on the secondary market is actually taking second place to "man, I don't think I'll ever field more than 3 squads of base Veritechs at once anyway, why the hell would I need 29 VTs??"

But that's getting ahead of myself. First they need to actually deliver. 149 days until the end of June and counting...

I'm expecting that they ship a half dozen boxes to US backers before GenCon. They can then say they "started shipping", and then proceed to sell as much as they possibly can at Gencon. They then take a week off, resume shipping to US backers, and announce that due to the exorbitant USPS costs that they will not wave ship products to non-US backers due to the cost (see Reaper, Myth) and instead send it all to us in one big chunk "definitely before Christmas" which might then arrive by February 2015. Or June. After the US gets waves 2 & 3 sent individually, in any case...

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm expecting that they ship a half dozen boxes to US backers before GenCon. They can then say they "started shipping", and then proceed to sell as much as they possibly can at Gencon. They then take a week off, resume shipping to US backers, and announce that due to the exorbitant USPS costs that they will not wave ship products to non-US backers due to the cost (see Reaper, Myth) and instead send it all to us in one big chunk "definitely before Christmas" which might then arrive by February 2015. Or June. After the US gets waves 2 & 3 sent individually, in any case...

Yes. It's important we pin them down on all this. While it doesn't stop them from doing it, it's nice to be able to rub it in the fanboys faces.

I am totally confident that I'll get my delivery before my birthday in July, even here in the UK.

Mind you, that may be because I only went in for the models, so only backed for the specials, characters and that resin SDF-1. so, yes, I am talking about July 2015.

It'a already been so long since I backed this that my wallet has forgotten having to pay for anything and I am expecting another 12-18 months of waiting before I actually get anything. I could, in fact, be the very last person to get anything out of backing this - unless they seriously up the shipping to Australia, of course.

...and we know that could never happen.

Joyboozer wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm expecting that they ship a half dozen boxes to US backers before GenCon. They can then say they "started shipping", and then proceed to sell as much as they possibly can at Gencon. They then take a week off, resume shipping to US backers, and announce that due to the exorbitant USPS costs that they will not wave ship products to non-US backers due to the cost (see Reaper, Myth) and instead send it all to us in one big chunk "definitely before Christmas" which might then arrive by February 2015. Or June. After the US gets waves 2 & 3 sent individually, in any case...

Yes. It's important we pin them down on all this. While it doesn't stop them from doing it, it's nice to be able to rub it in the fanboys faces.

While it might make you feel better if/when that happens, you know the any True Fanboys will hand wave away whatever bad thing/delay might or might not happen anyway!

Mike1975 wrote:
besides their reputation in general PB is working on something that is new to them , granted with help, but new, so naturally there are misgivings and any issue will raise loud voices of the naysayers. I do not think they have worked efficiently or effectively BUT I am also fully aware that I am not aware of the inner workings and progress of this from start to finish. I've given them more latitude than most. I am curious to see how things progress from here. Hopefully they will meet these expectations that they have set for themselves. If not things are going to get messy.

I was looking at the writing credits on the RRT rulebook (from The Warstore), and it says: written by Alessio Cavatore, David Freeman and Carmen Bellaire.

I know Alessio doesn't work for PB, does anyone know if Freeman or Bellaire work there? I am just glad that it doesn't have Kevin's name on it. Maybe it will be a good product after all!


As to the commenters saying that some people won't be happy receiving some of our stuff early. That's not it at all. It's that the company is full of , and even from this far outside the project, I can tell that they're not working on things in even a somewhat logical order. We've seen prints of the FPA, then the Artillery Pods, then the regular Pods. WTF would they be working on the FPA before the stuff in the boxed set?? Am I unhappy with ND? Yes, because they don't have anyone [read project manager] keeping noses to grindstones and a logical game plan. Am I unhappy with PB? Yes, but really just for the BS that they keep trolling out in the updates. Just be upfront and honest, don't be patronizing or act like you're doing me a favor. You aren't doing me a favor. Delivering in June is more than half a year late. And no, it's not because they were ensuring that it is a great product, or making the game better. AND they're only delivering half of the stuff at that time. I don't seek to infringe on your happiness at getting the base game in June, but don't toadie around that they're suddenly the best thing since sliced bread because they are sending the base game out and wonder why other people aren't impressed in a completely lackluster performance. And we won't know the actual quality of anything until it shows up to your house. I haven't commented on the quality of any of these products, as I don't know what that will be. I am just unhappy with the company and how every update makes it out like they are doing us a favor. If you are enamored with PB/ND, I am not naysaying your enjoyment, I am just being a realist.

These delays really, really suck, but what I am waiting to see is the rules. A local store is going to be running a campaign when the game hits retail; so if the game is pretty good like Mike says (hopefully they take your critique into account) then I will be jumping in. I didn't have the cash to kickstart this (if I did I would be about as unhappy as everyone else). I really wanted a Rick Hunter LE and super valks and monster, and the battle cry pledge was such a great deal. Hopefully PB/ND stick to this current deadline they set.

Carmen Bellaire is the palladium employee that picked up the mantle of "minis guy" with Robotech. I didn't know Alessio was working on it and he's a relatively well know name in minis game design over the past few years. The thing is though that he is well known because he is everywhere is seems with lots of different game rules to his credit since leaving GW a few years ago so I don't know how much work he actually does over time on each project individually as opposed to being a "designer for hire" who just gives his opinion with an overview. Just off the top of my head, he's got Mantic Kings of War, Bolt Action, Loka, and All Quiet on the Martian Front to name a few. I haven't actually played any of them so can't comment on the rules directly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:
As to the commenters saying that some people won't be happy receiving some of our stuff early. That's not it at all. It's that the company is full of , and even from this far outside the project, I can tell that they're not working on things in even a somewhat logical order. We've seen prints of the FPA, then the Artillery Pods, then the regular Pods. WTF would they be working on the FPA before the stuff in the boxed set??

I'd point out that they said they recieved a bunch of 3d printing test models at once just prior to Christmas and they've been drip feeding them individually since. Posting pics of an FPA before pics of a Regult doesn't mean the former was worked on first. That said I agree (and even said exactly that earlier) that they should have been working on the supposed "wave 1" stuff first and ensuring that at least something made their deadlines of October-December. Their latest update is not good news but rather the best (assuming they don't miss that deadline yet again) of a bad situation that they're entirely to date responsible for.

I'll never forget or forgive Alessio for the abomination that was his Skaven Army Book in WFB!

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll never forget or forgive Alessio for the abomination that was his Skaven Army Book in WFB!

Are you talking about the overall book or the abomination unit in that book? If the former, are you sure you're not a dwarf player instead holding that grudge? Just kidding... I have almost no idea with what happens over on the fantasy side beyond just looking at some pretty minis occasionally.

Alessio offers himself out as a rules consultant to anyone who wants to hire him if I recall correctly, presumably the level of credit he's given is commensurate with the level of consulting he does on each rule book.

 warboss wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll never forget or forgive Alessio for the abomination that was his Skaven Army Book in WFB!

Are you talking about the overall book or the abomination unit in that book? If the former, are you sure you're not a dwarf player instead holding that grudge? Just kidding... I have almost no idea with what happens over on the fantasy side beyond just looking at some pretty minis occasionally.

A little bit of both!

And yeah, I'm a big fan of Dwarves, and The Empire - so Skaven, yeah, not my favorite, and that is NOT based purely on a Fluff Basis!

That book was a nasty piece of work, and a lot of what was the problem SHOULD have been either 1) caught in playtesting by the author himself or 2) caught in playtesting by someone.

But, GW, you know.

From what I've read to date, who knows how well PB will no or take playtesting - but...

 warboss wrote:

I'd point out that they said they recieved a bunch of 3d printing test models at once just prior to Christmas and they've been drip feeding them individually since. Posting pics of an FPA before pics of a Regult doesn't mean the former was worked on first. That said I agree (and even said exactly that earlier) that they should have been working on the supposed "wave 1" stuff first and ensuring that at least something made their deadlines of October-December. Their latest update is not good news but rather the best (assuming they don't miss that deadline yet again) of a bad situation that they're entirely to date responsible for.

I would agree with you, except they said they are awaiting the prints of the Veritechs...

 Azazelx wrote:
...and we know that could never happen.

Well, if you all would just stop moving your island continent around and pick a spot, it might be possible to mail you something without exorbitant fueling costs, hazard pay and supplies for the mule train. Training mules to swim in shark-infested waters is not cheap.

Here's pics of the gencon minis with macross 1/250 fighters and two 1/285 scale Russian jets.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/e653cc6f8c5b12a982b0fdf3b7b522d3_zps8f2545d8.jpg

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/08d952caf39a54d90c1fb10ffdb33a0c_zpsf19b7b8e.jpg

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/8376b7eecf7e5731709af1c77c77a5cf_zps883d3e88.jpg

 Alpharius wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm expecting that they ship a half dozen boxes to US backers before GenCon. They can then say they "started shipping", and then proceed to sell as much as they possibly can at Gencon. They then take a week off, resume shipping to US backers, and announce that due to the exorbitant USPS costs that they will not wave ship products to non-US backers due to the cost (see Reaper, Myth) and instead send it all to us in one big chunk "definitely before Christmas" which might then arrive by February 2015. Or June. After the US gets waves 2 & 3 sent individually, in any case...

Yes. It's important we pin them down on all this. While it doesn't stop them from doing it, it's nice to be able to rub it in the fanboys faces.

While it might make you feel better if/when that happens, you know the any True Fanboys will hand wave away whatever bad thing/delay might or might not happen anyway!

So.. business as usual, then?

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Here's pics of the gencon minis with macross 1/250 fighters and two 1/285 scale Russian jets.

Are those the gashapon 1/250 series 1-4 stuff that came out a few years ago? I always considered getting a few of them but the presence of just fighter mode stopped me. They would have been irresistable if the sets had all 3. Even so, as one of the minority that likes Macross 2, it's my only way of getting a VF-2SS. Nice macross models in any case. Yours definitely don't have the same dirty pitting as mine.