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Eh, welcome to 2013. :( In any case, there is REAL news there in that the moulds are being cut. Just think... when all the wave one moulds are ready to be cut, we'll finally be at the point the kickstarter said we'd be at back in June 2013!... at least for Wave 1 but not including the half the sculpts coming at some unannounced date in 2015 at this pace.

Month for cutting, month for production, month for shipping, time to Palladium's warehouse, and whatever weeks might be left over to sort out and ship thousands of packages, mere weeks before the largest convention they'll attend all year.

Yup, no way a snag could arise there! Customs, weather, shipping delays (boat and truck alike), retooling, QA, and untold hundreds of other potential issues, none of those could possibly kick in!

Murphy's Law is going to have some fun with this one.

Been lurking for awhile, read the comments but can't still figure out why the backlash to kick starters? Isn't kickstarter a medium for us to back projects interesting to us? And not a shopping cart? I'm just glad the developer is still willing to complete this project with this sort of negativity from its supporters.

I'm in for a battlecry and a bag. I thought about buying more during the kickstarter but decided it is too risky for a new company. Overall I'm still impress with the effort and results so far. I think it comes down to perspective. I know they won't be the gw quality nor did they charge gw prices.

So far I've backed this, relic knight and dead zone. All of which I spend around 200 on each, so far none I regret yet, until I have the models in my hands, painted them up, played a few games I won't judge a game I potentially play until I'm retired. Btw deadzone passed with flying colours in that count. I'm hoping robotech will be the same.

wufai wrote:
Been lurking for awhile, read the comments but can't still figure out why the backlash to kick starters? Isn't kickstarter a medium for us to back projects interesting to us? And not a shopping cart? I'm just glad the developer is still willing to complete this project with this sort of negativity from its supporters.

They have a legal obligation to complete the project; please keep that in mind that they're not doing all this out of the goodness of their corporate hearts but to continue to sell a game line after the kickstarter as well. Also, yes, it is not supposed to be a shopping cart but instead an interactive process to develop the minis to the specification set out in the kickstarter description. Objectively and without a doubt, they failed on the time table as at best the project will be 6-8 months for ANY part and they failed for months at a time to keep the pledgers informed about the TRUE progress all the way up until December at which point it was 100% impossible for them to meet their own goals that THEY THEMSELVES set. Subjectively, they failed to deliver the quality they advertised but we only know that now since they broke their own promises to keep us both informed and a part of the development.

Erm... yeah, might as well crack a couple cold ones and read through the whole thread. If you can honestly say you've read all 127 pages (I know I have) and still don't know why people have misgivings and concerns, then there's not much point trying to clarify further.

wufai wrote:
I know they won't be the gw quality nor did they charge gw prices.

The UEDF Destroid Pack contains 4 models and has a MSRP of $32.95

The UEDF Valkyrie Wing 6 Models at $36.95

The Zentraedi Command Pack with 3 is also $36.95.

Those seem pretty close to GW prices to me.

Those prices would be pretty bad for plastic models of any quality, assuming the company wanted to sell a lot of them.

"We got a niche product here we wanna sell for skirmish prices. Better pay the big bucks to pay for plastic tooling so we can spend pennies to choke the landfills with our dead product."

Any news on the "group refund" thingy ?

wufai wrote:
Been lurking for awhile, read the comments but can't still figure out why the backlash to kick starters? Isn't kickstarter a medium for us to back projects interesting to us? And not a shopping cart? I'm just glad the developer is still willing to complete this project with this sort of negativity from its supporters.

Lol, wut? I'm sorry, are our mean but totally factual criticisms hurting his wittle feelings? And this quote is just hilarious. So you feel people can say 'screw this, I'm taking my ball home' despite having taken money from thousands of backers just because they had their feelings hurt? Are you the KS creator who burned his own KSed book?

I'm in for a battlecry and a bag. I thought about buying more during the kickstarter but decided it is too risky for a new company. Overall I'm still impress with the effort and results so far. I think it comes down to perspective. I know they won't be the gw quality nor did they charge gw prices.

Uh what? Palladium isn't a new company. Also, let's compare the prices they charged compared to say...DFG then. How does that stack up? Probably not in favor of your argument

Mike has (had) his war on vulgarity on his Facebook page, but is perfectly ok (I'm guessing) letting this through:

Alex Clarke: " lol. yup. solid model locked in a single pose with virtually no chance of it ever being converted to a different stance. Life is like a teenager's vagina, no matter how perfect it is in reality, there's always someone who wants to bitch about how it could be better. If the spartan was on that same spruce with the same molding process, the 2 of you would still be bitching in here about something being wrong with it. Good to know I haven't missed a damn thing being away from this group for the last week. Interesting how the posts here have gone from insightful and creative to a degraded copy and paste cryfest from the KS site. Really is a turn off for someone who is here to get away from the bs on the official site."
and
"When you can translate that into English, I'll be here to read it."
and he still swore...a lot.

I mean it screams to me "Blah, you have a different opinion. BLAHHH." tossing in some swears and highly inappropriate comments. And they complain about others whining, when they troll people showcasing their opinions. Don't mean to keep ranting on stuff like this, but there are other ways to express an opposing opinion in a more constructive way.

 Stormcrow77 wrote:

wufai wrote:
I know they won't be the gw quality nor did they charge gw prices.

The UEDF Destroid Pack contains 4 models and has a MSRP of $32.95

The UEDF Valkyrie Wing 6 Models at $36.95

The Zentraedi Command Pack with 3 is also $36.95.

Those seem pretty close to GW prices to me.

None of us paid MSRP prices through their KS. and none knew the quality of the models during the KS except for a hand sketch or a 3D render. So why complain when the modeling process is not what you have in mind? I just think the judgement should be reserved for the end product, after building/painting/playing and not during the manufacturing process. iirc there are around 90 game pieces in Battlecry for $140, which is $1.5 for each game model. At this price my standard is indeed pretty low, considering a GW 5man kit now costs $42CAD before 13% tax.

Here's another thought, what are you guys expecting from this game when you sign in to this KS? I would really like to know the reason to understand why you hate the game now and demending refunds? For me I would like a playable Robotech wargame with cool models that I can display on my glass cabinent when not in use. I like the Robotech/Macross universe. I've build the bandai models and played the PS3 games and watched the anime. I thought it would be cool to have a fully painted wargame based on the universe and since my asian friends who are also into Marcoss don't know about wargamming it will be a great head turner for them. The multiparts/gaps/delay issues hasn't deter me because they are all a one time thing. When the product finally ships I will never worry about the shipping issue again, and after building the models I will never deal with the multiparts/gaps issue.

So again, what was your reason/goal/vision when you initally backed the Robotech KS? and what has now changed your mind?

 Stormcrow77 wrote:

wufai wrote:
I know they won't be the gw quality nor did they charge gw prices.

The UEDF Destroid Pack contains 4 models and has a MSRP of $32.95

The UEDF Valkyrie Wing 6 Models at $36.95

The Zentraedi Command Pack with 3 is also $36.95.

Those seem pretty close to GW prices to me.

Not really considering the UEDF stuff is closest to terminators in size and those are $50 for 5 (so $10 each)... The zentraedi stuff is significantly larger than terminators yet (except for the command pack) only about $6 per mini. Then factor in that GW strongly enforces a max 20% off discount which Palladium won't at retail along with the KS prices being cheaper than the above for add ons (let alone the battlecry pledge discount) and we're coming in way under GW prices. The problem is that from the look of the minis we're getting what we paid for instead of the mouth watering designs we were promised.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wufai wrote:
I just think the judgement should be reserved for the end product, after building/painting/playing and not during the manufacturing process. iirc there are around 90 game pieces in Battlecry for $140, which is $1.5 for each game model. At this price my standard is indeed pretty low, considering a GW 5man kit now costs $42CAD before 13% tax.

Here's another thought, what are you guys expecting from this game when you sign in to this KS? I would really like to know the reason to understand why you hate the game now and demending refunds? For me I would like a playable Robotech wargame with cool models that I can display on my glass cabinent when not in use. I like the Robotech/Macross universe. I've build the bandai models and played the PS3 games and watched the anime. I thought it would be cool to have a fully painted wargame based on the universe and since my asian friends who are also into Marcoss don't know about wargamming it will be a great head turner for them. The multiparts/gaps/delay issues hasn't deter me because they are all a one time thing. When the product finally ships I will never worry about the shipping issue again, and after building the models I will never deal with the multiparts/gaps issue.

So again, what was your reason/goal/vision when you initally backed the Robotech KS? and what has now changed your mind?

I bolded the pertinent parts. Palladium has set the expectations and they said they were releasing a top notch wargame in full plastic with mouth watering minis. If they had instead said they were coming out with some cheap mediocre monopose models with 2-3x the part count of similarly sized miniatures (not models but miniatures), I suspect the expectations of fans, the comments about the KS, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the pledged funds total would have been different. I base my expectations on what I was promised before paying, not on what I paid and I don't think I'm the only one. I didn't pledge too much luckily because of my mistrust of Palladium (hell, even pledging was a leap of faith apparently into a black hole of delays). As for the last part, I don't see the gaps as a one time thing. I got in at battlecry so I see it as a 96+ time thing.

Anyone in this thread at Adepticon? Did they show up with any of those sweet models of seams?

 TalonZahn wrote:
Anyone in this thread at Adepticon? Did they show up with any of those sweet models of seams?

Not that I've seen.

ND just has Anima, Helldorrado, relic knights, and SDE.

If you check out the Ninja Division facebook page (it was linked somewhere on the KS comments), you'll see constant comments about no Robotech presence. They aren't showing apparently anything about the biggest project they've ever worked on this year despite it being the primary focus last year. I guess they only show off what they're currently trying to fund and if they already have your money then "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

 warboss wrote:
If you check out the Ninja Division facebook page (it was linked somewhere on the KS comments), you'll see constant comments about no Robotech presence. They aren't showing apparently anything about the biggest project they've ever worked on this year despite it being the primary focus last year. I guess they only show off what they're currently trying to fund and if they already have your money then "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Link to the Anima, Helldoraddo, and Relic Knights kickstarters that are currently running, please?

My suspicion, based on nothing more than a pattern of past behavior, is that at this point Kevin has already kicked Alessio's & NDs work to the curb and is in the final stages of "fixing" it.

Hence we have models that look like the designer once opened a Bandai kit and then gave it to his 10 year old...

And ND not advertising the project as its not their baby anymore, but they have to much professionalism to throw PB under the bus.

But that could just be fanboi boosterism speaking.

 ThaneCawdor wrote:
My suspicion, based on nothing more than a pattern of past behavior, is that at this point Kevin has already kicked Alessio's & NDs work to the curb and is in the final stages of "fixing" it.

Hence we have models that look like the designer once opened a Bandai kit and then gave it to his 10 year old...

And ND not advertising the project as its not their baby anymore, but they have to much professionalism to throw PB under the bus.

But that could just be fanboi boosterism speaking.

ND didn't show off the sculpts at GAMA. Showing off the product is PBs thing. ND can't post anything about RRT until PB has done so. So they can't have the models and show them, demo the game or anything because it isn't their product. PB are the twits who don't show up to the biggest miniatures weekend in the country, because they don't know gak about the miniatures market.

Ninja Pop doesn't have too much professionalism to throw PB under the bus. They would probably have to cough up a fair chunk of change since they are the contracted party to make all of the models for RRT. Apart from the fact that the models look like they're manufactured for 1980s Happy Meals, they hold most of the responsibility for the digital sculpting and getting them from that to being actual physical miniatures. Since we have no physical miniatures, not much they can throw PB under the bus for. Well, I suppose they could complain that PB didn't hold their feet to the fire and make them design better models. So, win win for PB and ND both.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If you check out the Ninja Division facebook page (it was linked somewhere on the KS comments), you'll see constant comments about no Robotech presence. They aren't showing apparently anything about the biggest project they've ever worked on this year despite it being the primary focus last year. I guess they only show off what they're currently trying to fund and if they already have your money then "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Link to the Anima, Helldoraddo, and Relic Knights kickstarters that are currently running, please?

Adepticon 2013...


Adepticon 2014...


I'll give you one guess what they're trying to sell you each time. PROTIP: Look at the only big banner that isn't their company's name.

Here is another look.

 warboss wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If you check out the Ninja Division facebook page (it was linked somewhere on the KS comments), you'll see constant comments about no Robotech presence. They aren't showing apparently anything about the biggest project they've ever worked on this year despite it being the primary focus last year. I guess they only show off what they're currently trying to fund and if they already have your money then "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Link to the Anima, Helldoraddo, and Relic Knights kickstarters that are currently running, please?

Adepticon 2013...

Spoiler:

Adepticon 2014...

Spoiler:

I'll give you one guess what they're trying to sell you each time. PROTIP: Look at the only big banner that isn't their company's name.

In your bottom pick it looks like they're running demos for Relic Knights and Helldorado...

 warboss wrote:
If you check out the Ninja Division facebook page (it was linked somewhere on the KS comments), you'll see constant comments about no Robotech presence. They aren't showing apparently anything about the biggest project they've ever worked on this year despite it being the primary focus last year. I guess they only show off what they're currently trying to fund and if they already have your money then "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Alright I can agree to this. But I don't see anything drastically wrong with it. Here's my analysis.

I seems that the marketing job for Robotech has been handed back to PB. At least the kickstarter update the promotion materials is handled by PB. So it makes sense ND stopped promoting it as it is PB product. PB now handles the online store front for Robotech products as well. So why still relay on ND for Robotech updates? Their job with Robotech seem to be complete to me.

ND seem to now handle their own publishing as well. and Forgotten Kings is their first attempt. So kudos to them for promoting it at adaptcon! I would spend my advertisitng dollars at it too since it is still on Kickstarter and has the potential at making money at this point.

I don't disagree with them not promoting other product like Relic Knights. These products are in production stage and not yet ready for public retail. Why promote something that your customers cannot buy at this point?

What I would say is that I don't entirely trust ND and their team after reading some stuff online. It seems that ND has part ways with coolminiornot with the RK and SDE line, and seems to cut ties with PB as well with Robotech, both products has not reach retail distribution yet. So technically ND really has nothing to show for itself. There is a red flag somewhere if you cut ties with 2 publishing companies before any of the products is released.

So in summary, I don't think ND cares for Robotech anymore, its in the hands of PB now and given I paid roughly $1.5 per model I can't really complain if the results are subpar. I will make myself a nice painted set and call it an end for the Robotech line.

@Wulfai
I am sorry but that is so wrong, ND got a fair slice of the pie and were supposed to be the "miniatures" experts for this project including the exciting ruleset.

2013 they are ful lof it promoting this as the next big thing and 2014 nothing - something stinks here methinks.

Agreed the price per model is low but so is the price of green army men to GW, this issue is quality. So far nothing shown seems to match up to the extravagant claims of last year and even the prototypes they used for the demos. Of course I can and should compain if what is presented is sub par - look at GW finecast and its issues and those models were streets ahead of what we have seen here.

So I have paid and now wait and wait and wait, until Kevin and Pally books decide we are worth talking to again - almost feels like he is that spoillt kid we shouted at and now he is taking his ball back home.

Sorry for the rant and it is not directed at you but is the frustration of PB and ND not coming clean to their backers.

Here's some scale shots of Max with some GW models.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/eb535e1c26eda8036b332c0c1669512c_zps37ad58ff.jpg

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/e52a4a95354e06c239e0892ad55d0b0c_zps7d43fb45.jpg

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a457/cypherxv/9285064c39504a9a8642d67f7256bd5a_zps5ccd3af7.jpg


Did anyone catch the moron who compared the new IG vehicle to a persons finger? What an idiot. It's much bigger than a RRT model.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Here is another look.

Thanks. I was basing my info on the pics that they posted and they focused their own pics on the current funding project. I stand corrected in that they're not ignoring all their previously funded project but rather just Robotech...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Here's some scale shots of Max with some GW models.

Spoiler:

Did anyone catch the moron who compared the new IG vehicle to a persons finger? What an idiot. It's much bigger than a RRT model.

Thanks for the pics; I embedded them in the spoiler tags above. So, at least using the metal con special minis (so insert disclaimer here), they're a bit taller than a terminator but have less girth to them... all in all likely the same volume as one. Also, I like your cataphracti terminator and contemptor dread... plus the deathwatch book!

Also, wufai, your calls for people to be patient and wait to see the figures in hand was something I wanted to address earlier;

While it may seem frustrating to feel like it's nothing but dozens or hundreds of voices screaming in the comments, they are still barely starting production. NOW is the *perfect* time for people to voice their concerns, as now may be the last opportunity we have to influence that production line. Once the molds are milled and they've pumped out half a million sprues of plastic, it's going to be a wee bit late to do anything about it. This isn't something where they'll get feedback and decide to re-do the entire run and ship it out of their pockets. That's it. What we see when we open the boxes (terrible seam placements, massive gaps, obnoxious piece counts and all) is what we get.

So yeah, no, I see no reason to quietly wait another 4/6/32 months for them to deliver before giving critique and feedback if there seems to be a heightened risk that gak is exactly what I'm going to get when I open those boxes.

I agree forar. Bringing up concerns now is appropriate and not later when it's too late. That would be like having issues with the dinner at the wedding reception hall when trying out the food but ONLY voicing concerns at the actual wedding when it is already on 200 plates. In the end though, Palladium will just do whatever they want just like they've done for decades with the RPG side. They'll post some crap murmur about constructive criticism and how stuff doesn't get rubber stamped and how true fans just love it while real constructive criticism gets deleted/locked on the forums unread by the powers that be.

Wufai, my issue is that I was well aware of PB and their business practices and backed this under the pretence that this was being handled by ND. The moment the campaign ended PB took over and all their usual crap started.

Seeing that they have started tooling, and the garbage that has been previewed, I emailed them today asking for a refund. Once I get a form-letter reply that will quote the delays (not mentioned in my email) I will crank it up a notch.