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15-30 or so!

*jazzhands*

Looking at the pics zoomed in, it does look like those arms and legs are two pieces. They don't seem as bad as the destroids though, but man, what a bunch of pieces, especially considering you need all three models to field one Valkyrie. Last time I let nostalgia get the best of me...oh well.

On an unrelated subject, do people sell books in the swap shop? I've got some old school Battletech stuff I'd like to part ways with.

Sining wrote:
Someone on the KS comments brought this up, and it's true, there ARE seams on the valkyrie parts and it seems like they assembled them before taking photos....

That is a good observation and one that I missed in my earlier statement. One thing I'd add as another possibility (albeit on that has a bit of tinfoil hat in it) is that it is indeed the final version of the piece but was created the quick and easy route in the renders by simply joining the two together without further modifying the file to avoid having to get more HG approvals. That is probably the least likely but with how bad things have gone in this project I wouldn't disgard it just yet.

 TalonZahn wrote:

All Quiet on The Martian Front ended 2 weeks after the RT KS.

It's a company smaller than PB, which is ludicrous anyway.

It's their first game that I know of, and first foray into miniatures, again that I know of.

That stuff is closer to being in my hands than RRT. The minis look better, and better made as well.

I've never quoted myself, but I still think it's pretty damning against PB that scenarios like this exist.

I also just got my Email today that this KS is starting to ship.

These guys spun up an entire game and miniatures line with less of everything than PB/ND, and will beat them in every step of business related to their respective Kickstarters.

You don't understand, miniatures are hard! There's all this stuff to do! And HG are probably jerkfaces! Plus, ND. I mean... ND.

Like.

ND.

I have shocking proof that certain mammals can indeed release rainbows from their orifices! This unfortunately reinforces the Cult of Kevin's beliefs in the Siembadassiah but stops short of completely proving it till North Korea releases pictures of their unicorns to corrorobate the other half of his legendary flatus. I still don't believe though (yet!) that my mouth will water when I see the minis first hand.

https://www.thedodo.com/whales-sometimes-exhale-rainbo-551653057.html

FYI from ND website

Sining Ong
Dear ninjas, why did you guys partially assemble these figures? It misled a lot of people into thinking the Valkyrie's aren't in that many parts but there are seams on the arms which means they've already been assembled. These are very deceptive practices http://palladiumbooks.com/cuttingroom/Official/Robotech-RPG-Tactics/Valkyrie-proto.jpg
Like · · Yesterday at 1:55am via mobile

Ninja Division Hi Sining,
We do not participate in deceptive practices... we are ninjas after all! But seriously, the early photographs of the miniatures you are seeing are production/prototypes of the miniatures before they go into tooling.
Miniatures are highly detailed, and will require assembly, and necessarily be assembled from parts depending on the complexity of the miniature, some of which required by our striving to maintain a high fidelity to the original concepts and artwork - but also, something not out the realm of expectation and ability of new and veteran hobbyists.
Example - Zentraedi battle pod, at my last count had 12 pieces including the base, which I managed to assemble 3 of them in under 15 minutes.
Its a wonderful plastic and takes glues very well.

The Valkyrie fighter is 6 parts, and add on missiles to your own flavor...

The Battloid, depending on build between 12-15 pieces (as some heads and arms are in multiple parts)

I really hope you enjoy them as much as we are in getting ready to launch.

So another fail then.

Ninjas were ALL about deceptive practices. Smoke bombs and misdirection were major tools in their arsenal.

And the way that is written, it took him almost a quarter of an hour to assemble 3 pieces of a Zentraedi battlepod. Now that's fiddly stuff!

Yeah, those mother-fethers assembled all the pieces into "components" for that picture. I despise ND for the churching up and unnecessary semantics of their reply, as it comes off as very High Horse. They are just as bad as PB in my eyes with that reply.

And a battlepod is, by his count, 12 pieces. To build a legal Veritech you need all modes, so 12-15 for battloid, 6 plus missiles for fighter plus ? for gerwalk. 30+ pieces for one game piece.

I can see a lot of Zentaedi forces being completed and a lot fewer Valkyries. At least the destroids only require one model.

Those Valkyries are going to need a LOT of work if you want decent models. Reasonable game pieces may be possible in a reasonable time frame, but nothing like the 'quality' that PB have been leading us to expect.

Although I've been bitching that I will likely not get anything this year, I have nothing I expect to be in wave 1, at least I won't have anywhere near as much repair and cover-up work as those who went in deep for the game and now have hundreds of models to work on.

These are the same minis that are supposed to be mouthwatering, awesome and perfect according to Kevin

Maybe it's the "mouthwatering" you get right before you start worshipping at the porcelain god's throne (ie: vomit).

So we're looking at almost an hour then (clipping+cleanup+assembly) for a basic group of battlepods? Not including variants or a glaug? Ugh...

All we want are facts.

Every time something is misrepresented, it makes us go looking for more.

When small matters cannot be presented accurately it makes you wonder how correct the larger issues are presented.

A great deal of trust has been thrown out the window so all of us as backers keep looking for a plan "B" if it all goes bad because historically PB promises things for years at a time. To state plainly: at some point you get so tired of the BS you just want to cut your losses to not deal with them anymore (or at least where I can see myself in the next year).

I strongly suspect the "wave 2" will only happen as fast as when/if PB wants to publish the Invid Invasion saga. Can anyone forsee 2-3 years from now? That would be based on how "brisk" the retail sales go of Wave 1.

These communications with their various "spin" just feel... insulting. Looking at the "All's quiet on the Martian Front" communication seems straight shooting and gives clear progress. It is this contrast that seems particularly damning for PB and ND.

Bah, I rant, I repeat myself, I do not get proven wrong (other than things being WORSE than I predicted).... JAZZ HANDS!!!!

Mike1975 wrote:
Example - Zentraedi battle pod, at my last count had 12 pieces including the base, which I managed to assemble 3 of them in under 15 minutes.
Its a wonderful plastic and takes glues very well.

The Valkyrie fighter is 6 parts, and add on missiles to your own flavor...

The Battloid, depending on build between 12-15 pieces (as some heads and arms are in multiple parts)

I really hope you enjoy them as much as we are in getting ready to launch.

Gotta be concerned they apparently can't count.

Zentradi BattlePod is 14 pieces, including the base (Torso front, torso back, two piece hip assembly, two legs, two feet, four front cannons, a single paired top cannon, and the base).

As Kendachi pointed out on the Update comments, the Valkyrie fighter as shown is 9, prior to adding missiles, not including the base or flight stand, and that includes the single piece fuselage, which if accurate, again calls into question the clusterfeth that is the Spartan

And the 12-15 on the battleoid indicates that some of those parts are definitely pre-glued. Becaue those are 8, + base and optional flight stand.

This nightmare can't end fast enough

I'm counting at least 8 pieces on two arms, how they heck is that going to be 12 pieces for a complete model?

Battleoid: Each forearm is made of two pieces, then you have an upper arm and hand. (That's assuming that the upper arm also isn't split).

The legs that were previously shown on the veritechs were in half, so that's another 4 pieces assuming the upper and lower leg aren't separate. Right there that's 12+ pieces not including the torso, wing or head pieces.

A standard Zentreadi pod has 4 face lasers, one more piece for the rear lasers. Two hull halves, hips that were shown as two pieces, two legs, two feet, two thrusters (assuming the thrusters are single pieces) 15+ pieces





So I hear there's this other mecha based game from KS that has actual parts counts in the 10-12 component range....

 paulson games wrote:
So I hear there's this other mecha based game from KS that has actual parts counts in the 10-12 component range....

That as far as I can tell hasn't sent out the surveys... >.> (Sorry for offtopic - PM me if I'm wrong)

No, don't apologize! We're giving him the authentic Kickstarter experience!

... though yeah we should probably do that in the Mecha Front thread, if just to make sure it remains settled in the backs of people's minds. >.>

I come here when Raging Heroes is making me kind of blue

it give me a bunch of perspective to make me feel better

Just to throw a point in for consideration: fixating on part count is giving them an out. There are plenty of games who include just as many parts in things of similar size. For example, I was building a 15mm half-track yesterday that as a basic build composed of 18 parts for a 2" long model (which standing vertical is about a half-inch taller[?] than an RTT mini). It honestly was not that bad, and the model looks very nice. The same vehicle from another manufacturer had a parts count of 13, and was similar fun to assemble (though will be more annoying to paint due to some assemblies). Similarly, a group of Panzer IVs clocked in a 16 parts for a basic build. Looking at some Panther tanks, each tank has 30 parts looking at the directions. Keep in mind, these are designed for gaming and not as display models.

The big differences are:

1) I don't need too many models to play the game (8 Panthers would be an entire 1500 point list on their own). In Robotech, that possibly wouldn't even be one unit from what I've gleaned from this thread. However, model count is an outgrowth of rules, not a trait of the model themselves. Blame PB for writing rules that are requiring a high model count which is making a high parts count annoying (Forar's earlier ranting about a lack of focus on solid skirmish rules springs to mind here; boy would small scale engagements help). Especially in the case of Valkyries if the rules actually require WYSIWYG on the form instead of allowing tokens if a Valkyrie changes then that's incredibly stupid, bearing in mind that I don't know if anyone has seen the rules as regards that. I suspect if such an option isn't in the rules, that will be a common house-rule.

2) The design of the kits is great. There are no seams visible that aren't on the real-life vehicles. They look like they're supposed to and they're fun to move around making tank noises because they're awesome (disclaimer: my bias for WW2 history might be showing here). I'm pretty sure I don't need to beat the seam horse any harder...or the bloody crater where the body of the seam horse was anyway.

So, hammer them for the bad designs with daft part splits and rulesets that require a huge time investment to build the models required, but it seems like parts count is an area that they can actually legitimately point to and say "our part counts aren't outrageous" and actually be within shouting distance of the truth. Not really siding with PB per se, it was just a thought that crossed my mind after I finished playing with my toy soldiers last night that I put a hell of a lot of parts together, but it was all great fun and I can't wait to do more.

I'm reasonably sure that wouldn't be the case here...

 Krinsath wrote:
2) The design of the kits is great. There are no seams visible that aren't on the real-life vehicles. They look like they're supposed to and they're fun to move around making tank noises because they're awesome (disclaimer: my bias for WW2 history might be showing here). I'm pretty sure I don't need to beat the seam horse any harder...or the bloody crater where the body of the seam horse was anyway.

Clearly the Wehrmacht designed their tanks with 3d modelling and sprue making foremost on their mind. The creators of the Macross mecha didn't have that luxury so Palladium and Ninja Division had to go with the seams to keep the designs accurate. It's not fair to compare the two. /sarcasm.

The Germans are known for being ridiculously efficient, perhaps they did indeed foresee the need to make toy soldiers in the future! YOU CAN'T PROVE THEY DIDN'T!

 paulson games wrote:
I'm counting at least 8 pieces on two arms, how they heck is that going to be 12 pieces for a complete model?

Battleoid: Each forearm is made of two pieces, then you have an upper arm and hand. (That's assuming that the upper arm also isn't split).

The legs that were previously shown on the veritechs were in half, so that's another 4 pieces assuming the upper and lower leg aren't separate. Right there that's 12+ pieces not including the torso, wing or head pieces.

A standard Zentreadi pod has 4 face lasers, one more piece for the rear lasers. Two hull halves, hips that were shown as two pieces, two legs, two feet, two thrusters (assuming the thrusters are single pieces) 15+ pieces

Yeah, I forgot the two thrusters in my count. And they're single piece, according to the sprue we've seen.

So, including base, it's 16. They were only off by a third. Counting is hard.

And I'm curious if the "15 minutes to assemble 3" also includes de-spruing, or if it was done with all the components cut off the sprue first. Cause there's 39 connections per Regult (assuming bases have none), that will need to be snipped carefully, or cleaned with a knife. So that's 117 cuts, then gluing together of 52 points (14 per) then mounting to the base. Thankfully this model really only has two points of direct alignment, squaring the two torso pieces, and squaring the two hip pieces (some of the others with split limbs look to have substantially more). Cause 15 minutes looks a little light in the numbers to me. And they've already shown they can't count.

Sharing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
See all 6 pics here
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vV05jTTFGc2s1cms&usp=sharing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vSDgyQmpVRTg3NE0&usp=sharing

Moved them to their own seperate folder

Holy $4!7ballz, those final assemblies in the most recent update look HORRIBLE.

Seams EVERYWHERE.

Guess I wasted my money.

GAAK....every time i see the models it gets worse! It would be less painful if i knew they would go together as well as the WW2 company Krinsath mentioned above models go together

Damn it Rob Ford you left with my crack pipe again.....I need it to smoke whatever PB is smoking to see those as mouth watering

Boo

Cheers
Papasmurf

The battloid version looks the best. The other two look a bit clunky in plastic. Especially the gear walk version.

:::Sigh:::

Looks pretty much on par with gumball machine toys or the 30+ year old Nichimo kits..

Soooo glad I didn't have any money on these.


Seams, lots of thin spots, if you look closely you can actually see light coming through the battroids chest. Other areas are chunky as hell.

The noses are a bit too sharply pointed and they also managed to leave off the nose lasers.

Which are somehow shown in Palladium's RPG artwork from 30 years ago.... as well as the cover art for RTT. It's almost comical.






























PERFECTLY AMAZING!!!!

The wings look the most wrong to me. They look like planks.

Jesus fething Christ. Look at those limb-seams.