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 Forar wrote:

 schmoozies wrote:
So this showed up on Mike's Facebook Robotech group. The files will apparently be kept up until midnight Tuesday so you may want to download them quickly but what we have is a a set of playtest rules dated from May 2013. I'm sure there will have been many revisions since than (after all Kev needs to get his glue high from changing around the copy in each of his books) but it at least gives us an idea of what the rules may look like when we finally get them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/em4263mw4so139q/j4hc1%20%281%29.zip

In the name of all that is holy, if this is another of Mike's personalized 'totally just as good as the real rules, if not better' rules sets, I will not be held accountable for my actions.

I couldn't force my way through Mike's rules fanfiction.

Was his stuff just as Simbiedaish with the ®'s and such?

Not quite as hardcore, but you could tell he was a Battletech player at a glance. And I don't even play Battletech.

I've skimmed the rules.

There are... the expected problems/concerns/nitpicks.

I am sincerely hoping the last 14 months (far as I can tell, the books only actually went to production last week) have led to some streamlining/improvements, but won't be able to give them a more thorough read for at least a day or two.

 Forar wrote:
Not quite as hardcore, but you could tell he was a Battletech player at a glance. And I don't even play Battletech.

I've skimmed the rules.

There are... the expected problems/concerns/nitpicks.

I am sincerely hoping the last 14 months (far as I can tell, the books only actually went to production last week) have led to some streamlining/improvements, but won't be able to give them a more thorough read for at least a day or two.

I was just wondering if those were real rules, or if they were fan-faction from a fan-friend. Because there's no point to reading "Mike's Homebrewed Rules v7.5". At least not as something to judge Robotech Fiasco Tactics.

Nah, they seem to be PB's work.

The points line up (Mike changed them), they're consistent (at a glance, at least) with the rules overview we got during the campaign, etc.

If they're a fake, someone spent a lot of time on whipping them up. The rules themselves are like 41 pages long. That's a high bar to clear just for some trolling.

Palladium will always have a soft spot in my heart, since The Mechanoid Invasion was the first scifi RPG I ever owned and played (some). And later I also bought a bunch of Robotech RPG stuff in the late '80s when it premiered.

However, I didn't back this KS because of the other K.S. I don't think he's a bad guy. I just think he hasn't changed in 30 years, and still operates exactly like a guy printing games on newspaper stock on his own out of his garage. The trouble is that the business, budgets and expectations have obviously gotten much larger, and there are many more stakeholders.

But neither he nor his behavior is never going to change. All you have to do is look at his RPG system to see that. The guy is amazingly stuck in his ways -- from a design and business standpoint -- and those ways are rooted in the early '80s.

A couple friends of mine are backers. I hope they get their stuff and that it's to the quality they expected.

Those are from early playtest files.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Also, despite being pretty well behaved, it took a mere 2 days for their own conversations regarding the update to get locked on the PB forums.

Man, if they think that was heated or mean, they are in for a rude awakening if they ever stumble over here.

And yes, I'm aware that they know of Dakka and other forums/threads. I just don't think they really bother swinging by all that often. We already know they don't bother with the comments or their own forums all that often, I doubt other sites rank very highly on their priority list either.

Edit2: So, was this a release by you, Mike? Since I'm no longer a member, I just have schmoozies post to go on, which doesn't identify who put the files out. Is this something they finally gave you permission for, or did a playtester go 'off the reservation'?

Mike1975 wrote:
Those are from early playtest files.

Can't be that old, because there's a file from march/april (can't remember which at the moment) of this year.

I think these are probably the final rules.

vitae_drinker wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
Those are from early playtest files.

Can't be that old, because there's a file from march/april (can't remember which at the moment) of this year.

I think these are probably the final rules.

Huh, i'm only finding files that are dated around last May.

vitae_drinker wrote:

Mike1975 wrote:
Those are from early playtest files.

Can't be that old, because there's a file from march/april (can't remember which at the moment) of this year.

I think these are probably the final rules.

Every file that I downloaded has a date of 5/11/2013.

You get a different file?

Hmm. I thought one was dated earlier this year. Like the campaign document? Not at home right now but I can look again when I do.

 schmoozies wrote:
So this showed up on Mike's Facebook Robotech group. The files will apparently be kept up until midnight Tuesday so you may want to download them quickly but what we have is a a set of playtest rules dated from May 2013. I'm sure there will have been many revisions since than (after all Kev needs to get his glue high from changing around the copy in each of his books) but it at least gives us an idea of what the rules may look like when we finally get them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/em4263mw4so139q/j4hc1%20%281%29.zip

No longer there.

 Forar wrote:
Thanks for the confirmation.

Also, despite being pretty well behaved, it took a mere 2 days for their own conversations regarding the update to get locked on the PB forums.

Man, if they think that was heated or mean, they are in for a rude awakening if they ever stumble over here.

And yes, I'm aware that they know of Dakka and other forums/threads. I just don't think they really bother swinging by all that often. We already know they don't bother with the comments or their own forums all that often, I doubt other sites rank very highly on their priority list either.

Edit2: So, was this a release by you, Mike? Since I'm no longer a member, I just have schmoozies post to go on, which doesn't identify who put the files out. Is this something they finally gave you permission for, or did a playtester go 'off the reservation'?

Not mine, I have a lot more recent and prettier stuff now. If I was allowed to share you guys would be the second group to see a link to the rules. I'd have it out all over the place. As it is I believe that this was a playtester that leaked them and left it up for just a day to try to escape view from above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note, I think that the picture and unit files were created by the playtester himself, hence the reason for the dates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note they know more about these forums from backers than from ever looking themselves

It would also explain the seemingly random artwork used for them.

It'd make sense for a playtest package to have something to playtest with (and having the stats on the back is a good idea while people are still getting used to them), but the images were so disparate I figured some random guy must've done them up. I mean, surely Palladium wouldn't just Google Image Search for stuff on the property they're working on.

Apparently I was half right.

Whelp, they're out in the wild now. It'll be interesting to see what the opinion is, and what the reaction/response is.

We're four fething weeks from Gencon. Their attempts to keep the rules under wraps is about to run out, whether they like it or not.

I know you're with us on this one, just saying it again out loud, so to speak, that it's simply baffling why they even bother.

I let them know the cat is out of the bag and have been using it to push for more releases. They won't release the rules if they plan on selling the rulebook at GenCon but that does not mean we can't get more of some other stuff.

So, the rules are a mess and about to go on sale in four weeks?

Mike1975 wrote:
I let them know the cat is out of the bag and have been using it to push for more releases. They won't release the rules if they plan on selling the rulebook at GenCon but that does not mean we can't get more of some other stuff.

I don't think they have 2.0's version up, but Wyrd used to have a picture and 'fluff' removed version of the full Malifaux rules available for download on their website, and a version you could purchase for $15, along with the full giant picture, fluff and stat card filled version.

Despite having a legal download of the rules, I also bought the full 1.5 edition rule book, 2 copies of the mini book (much easier to flip through to look up a rule during gameplay) and more mini copies for friends.

Point being, as I think we're all in agreement, the rules aren't the selling point, the minis are, but even if the rules books ARE a selling point, you can still sell them. It's not just about being the only avenue to getting the info, but convenience of a 'dead tree' edition compared to even a fairly well bookmarked pdf.

Not that they're going to listen at this point, but I felt it was worth saying.

Err, again.

 BrookM wrote:
So, the rules are a mess and about to go on sale in four weeks?

Well, the rules from 14 months ago are kind of a mess, IMO.

... yeah the rules are probably a mess, but yes, they also go on sale in a month.

Mike, where did the rules go?

They're gone. Did they get to you?

 BrookM wrote:
So, the rules are a mess and about to go on sale in four weeks?

Not sure how you got that from the discussion but OK


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 Kendachi wrote:
Mike, where did the rules go?

They're gone. Did they get to you?

There were posted by the member for only a 24 hour period. I found out later that his name was attached to the account so he wanted to keep a low profile.


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I'm sure someone can email you a copy.......

I would but I don't want people to get the wrong idea with my NDA

Or "accidentally" mail out the one you have.

>.>

But seriously, what's up with these as a pdf? I thought that brought about The End Of Times?

The ONLY thing I have received from PB that was in PDF format was a few force cards that they had in color and converted to B and W before sending to me. Go figure.

4 weeks, eh? Surely that means everything is on a boat in the water by now?
Because of course they wouldn't keep us in the dark about Yet Another Slip(tm)(R)(c).

rigeld2 wrote:
4 weeks, eh? Surely that means everything is on a boat in the water by now?
Because of course they wouldn't keep us in the dark about Yet Another Slip(tm)(R)(c).

I'm kind of looking forward to the point where they find that even though they took a big, steaming dump on their backers they'll still fail to get anything in time for Gen Con.

The "bad backers" will be blamed because they didn't clap loudly enough.

Merijeek wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
4 weeks, eh? Surely that means everything is on a boat in the water by now?
Because of course they wouldn't keep us in the dark about Yet Another Slip(tm)(R)(c).

I'm kind of looking forward to the point where they find that even though they took a big, steaming dump on their backers they'll still fail to get anything in time for Gen Con.

Well, the container should be on the ship, and the ship leaving port sometime tomorrow, according to the latest information. So this week's update should either be joyously announcing the fact (though likely without any actual confirmation like the ship name/tracking number, cause you know, we have to trust J/W/K, they wouldn't mislead us). Or they'll be throwing someone under the bus, and it's not their fault that they've dicked around for 15 months, given the factory and shipping company an incredibly tight schedule, made promises based on that schedule, and fallen short when unexpected but routine circumstances eventuate. ie, business as usual at Palladium's House of Irresponsible Schedules.

Merijeek wrote:
The "bad backers" will be blamed because they didn't clap loudly enough.

Yup, we're an insignificant minority, but we're also capable of destroying the release, the game line, and the company, because of our "negativity".

And that "negativity" is because we've been pointing out the many many many mis-steps Palladium have made on this project. Like you said, it's our fault for not believing in fairies (tales).

Morgan Vening wrote:

Merijeek wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
4 weeks, eh? Surely that means everything is on a boat in the water by now?
Because of course they wouldn't keep us in the dark about Yet Another Slip(tm)(R)(c).

I'm kind of looking forward to the point where they find that even though they took a big, steaming dump on their backers they'll still fail to get anything in time for Gen Con.

Well, the container should be on the ship, and the ship leaving port sometime tomorrow, according to the latest information. So this week's update should either be joyously announcing the fact (though likely without any actual confirmation like the ship name/tracking number, cause you know, we have to trust J/W/K, they wouldn't mislead us). n..

Yeah, I know at least one KS that provided the tracking number for the ship.

Just saying.

Hell, it'd give them a way to mitigate things a bit. If something went wrong...they would be essentially blameless (except for their choosing Crazy Wang's Discount 50% Successful Shipping Company).

Although I can totally see on the Thursday update "GUESS WHAT? IT"S ON THE BOAT!!!!!" and then two weeks later something about "SOME NON-PB PINHEAD FORGOT TO PUT THE CONTAINER ON THE BOAT BUT WE'RE TOTALLY ABSENT OF RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE WE FORGOT TO ASK!!!!" or something equally asinine.

The rules are kind of another sticking point. You'd think they would send out PDFs of the rules to the backers like mantic does but I'm not sure Palladium has heard of the word PDF.

Sining wrote:
The rules are kind of another sticking point. You'd think they would send out PDFs of the rules to the backers like mantic does but I'm not sure Palladium has heard of the word PDF.

They're a small-time publisher trapped In an 80's time warp. Everyone knows the rule books are where the money is, baby! Yeah!

Maybe for RPGs but even Wizards is giving the basic D&D 5th rules away for free

Sining wrote:
Maybe for RPGs but even Wizards is giving the basic D&D 5th rules away for free

Yes, well, Wizards is flawed, but they are also not trapped in the 80's.

I wonder if Palladium is not releasing the rules as a PDF for the type of goofy, backward-thinking reasons they are so well known for, or is it maybe a screwy licensing/IP issue with Harmony Gold?

I remember reading something about Fantasy Flight having issues with releasing their Star Wars RPG rules as PDF, because Disney Law considered doing so as a different class of license. It may have been speculation- I honestly can't remember.

Palladium clearly has no idea how to make or promote or sell or play or assemble a table top miniatures game, but Harmony Gold doesn't seem to know how to let the Robotech license be used without sqeezing absolutely every potential nickel and dime out of it.

Have Palladium released anything substantial as PDF in the past?