Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Asterios wrote:

meant they don't like the multipart minis in this game also some of PB's ardent supporters still say the Zentraedi and the UEDF were done by the same company, whats your thoughts on that?

one of the main reasons I know this game is dead since if a miniatures game is to survive it needs to be supported and we all know how PB is with supporting games, their first clue they don't care about this game is when they ran it in the RPG section at GenCon instead of the miniatures area where it should have been.


also you do realize if they do an Invid game in the same scale most of the invid would be less then half an inch tall ?

First, the Zentraedi kits are designed like wargames miniatures. The limbs are solid, the connection areas have a lot of surface area and large tabs, ideal for plastic glue, and the joints allow for some creative posing without being fiddly or aggravating to assemble, which is trickier than Mantic many think it is. The RDF forces are almost literally the opposite of that. Hollow limbs and torsos that have small pin-and-hole connection points, square pegs on poorly-fitting load bearing limbs, which destroy poseability and make the minis more aggravating to assemble. The rifle arms were surely designed by Satan himself to test the faithful. Do you know how many decent poses you can get the guardian kit into (as designed)? 0. So, yeah, I believe there were two design teams.

I don't know enough about PB to question your judgement of them. Hopefully ND will have an effect.

The Invid had better not be in the same scale as the veritechs. Making some of the best designs in the show into tiny little blobs or fiddly lament-configuration puzzles would be beyond stupid. Heck, the scale does the RDF no favors at all; anything smaller than a veritech might as well be a cardboard chit for all the appeal it will have. No one bought Epic 40k because they loved the infantry-sized hero models. Guess what people will want to buy from the Invid saga (besides the Invid).

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Asterios wrote:

meant they don't like the multipart minis in this game also some of PB's ardent supporters still say the Zentraedi and the UEDF were done by the same company, whats your thoughts on that?

one of the main reasons I know this game is dead since if a miniatures game is to survive it needs to be supported and we all know how PB is with supporting games, their first clue they don't care about this game is when they ran it in the RPG section at GenCon instead of the miniatures area where it should have been.


also you do realize if they do an Invid game in the same scale most of the invid would be less then half an inch tall ?

First, the Zentraedi kits are designed like wargames miniatures. The limbs are solid, the connection areas have a lot of surface area and large tabs, ideal for plastic glue, and the joints allow for some creative posing without being fiddly or aggravating to assemble, which is trickier than Mantic many think it is. The RDF forces are almost literally the opposite of that. Hollow limbs and torsos that have small pin-and-hole connection points, square pegs on poorly-fitting load bearing limbs, which destroy poseability and make the minis more aggravating to assemble. The rifle arms were surely designed by Satan himself to test the faithful. Do you know how many decent poses you can get the guardian kit into (as designed)? 0. So, yeah, I believe there were two design teams.

I don't know enough about PB to question your judgement of them. Hopefully ND will have an effect.

The Invid had better not be in the same scale as the veritechs. Making some of the best designs in the show into tiny little blobs or fiddly lament-configuration puzzles would be beyond stupid. Heck, the scale does the RDF no favors at all; anything smaller than a veritech might as well be a cardboard chit for all the appeal it will have. No one bought Epic 40k because they loved the infantry-sized hero models. Guess what people will want to buy from the Invid saga (besides the Invid).

Reason I know there is 2 different design companies who did the models is the center sprue spacers, on the Zentraedi they are solid blobs, on the UEDF they are rings, reminiscent of the old Ban Dai models, as to ND the only thing they are involved in this game was early rules assist and model design that is it, everything else is on PB so were screwed there.

also many are fighting for PB to keep the same scale thru all the series, which means the masters will be about 1" or smaller and invid will be tiny so will the cyclones.

Those people are wrong and bad and misguided and they should feel sad.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Those people are wrong and bad and misguided and they should feel sad.

yeah well they are PB suck ups so their word will be heard more then ours.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

efarrer wrote:
But those really aren't comparable.

Oh, of course they aren't: you can buy the Btech box, take out the minis and cards, put them on the table and start playing right away.

Not really, you still need the tracking sheets for the mechs and also the game boards/terrain to play on.

The Alpha Strike ones come in the box. As it stated the link upthread.

I just want to point out one way the scale issue will affect the next Kickstarter on Dakka: the square-cube law.

6mm minis will have a much higher surface area-to-volume ratio than, say, 15mm minis which would have a little more than 4 times the surface but greater than 8 times the mass. What does this mean? When irate backers light their rewards on fire, 15mm or larger minis would give a satisfying burn, providing Dakkanauts enough time to add a soundtrack to their youtube videos. However, a 6mm figure will combust much more rapidly--perhaps even explosively! Their lighter mass in relation to their cross sections would make them dangerously vulnerable to wind and updrafts created by their burning brethren. 6mm cyclones would put entire neighborhoods at fire risk as blazing mecha drift onto roofs and trees, setting alight all in their path until you and everyone you love becomes trapped in a whirlwind inferno of death!!

We simply can't afford 6mm-scaled mecha. Please, think of the children.

efarrer wrote:
No. The game is not dead. It's not even started yet. If it fails to sell at retail then it will be dead. Right now it's not dead. We will have to see how it does at retail.

Well, given that a store is already showing off boxes, and North American retail distribution is apparently already underway, I guess we'll find out sooner rather than later.

Speaking of which, the grumbling on the KS and their FB page over this latest betrayal is getting ugly.

And the more 'advocates' of this practice try to spin it into a positive or reasonable thing, the more convinced I am that they'd make terrible GM's / Players for the very genre many of them seem to cling to; Letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law shenanigans like this aren't remotely healthy.

It's just sucks that there was no update because of their underhanded tactics. They don't even have the balls to let the ROW backers know what's happening on their ks page.

Asterios wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Those people are wrong and bad and misguided and they should feel sad.

yeah well they are PB suck ups so their word will be heard more then ours.

I'm getting really tired of the depth of you pool of BS there Rick. Rick is upset he did not get what he wanted. Cool. Fine. BUT he says he wants it all to succeed but he is a knight helping it succeed by hoping PB completely fails in this and that the outcome will be someone else picking up the license. Considering how fast HG and PB moves and history the chances of that happening are like 0.0098% (Pun Intended)

Calling people who oppose ANY and all views that he has shills and suck ups is his stock and trade as he seeks to elevate himself by tearing down others.

Here is a typical example. Even though I don't like NMI and his tactics this is typical of Rick.
------------------------------------------------------
Mike1975 wrote:
This is NMI on the Facebook page

Ziur Y'Reffej Only a handful of Canadian orders havent gone out - those go out Monday. Oh no!!!
Overseas people will still be getting their rewards BEFORE their local retailers get theirs -- So where's the drama????


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing is that ROW will have before THEIR local retailers but not before US retailers. There is a difference. Some may think it enough and others will not but there it is.


NMI is really clueless isn't he, also hes not helping PB with that post.
---------------------------------------------------

So while in many ways Rick has some good points he has vacillated from proof that PB had two different companies designing minis to I think the are and back as it suits his purposes. He has threatened lawsuits and then changed the focus of his complaints numerous times. More for himself and his own ego than out of any desire to do any good. The minis were going to go in the closet forever to now going to be painted after his Space Marines are done. Also from being a minis expert to asking everyone here what glue to use. So while I'm not happy with everything that PB has or does do I want my minis in all 3 Generations. I will have them one way or another...with or without PB. I could go on.

Now back to the point.

There are people who want all the same scale, others who do not. PB is very aware of this. Just because Ricky does not is no cause to call everyone else suck ups but honestly it comes as NO surprise. Ideas are still being thrown around. I find it funny how much "inside" information/BS Rick claims to have from one day to the next.

The pile is getting higher and higher. I just get tired of the stink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

efarrer wrote:
But those really aren't comparable.

Oh, of course they aren't: you can buy the Btech box, take out the minis and cards, put them on the table and start playing right away.

Not really, you still need the tracking sheets for the mechs and also the game boards/terrain to play on.

The Alpha Strike ones come in the box. As it stated the link upthread.

Yes, and Alpha Strike and Battletech are 2 different beasts. Alpha Strike CAN be played without buying some starter set. NOTE: Alpha Strike does not have a starter set. Battletech cannot be played without maps and more but does indeed have a starter set. Interesting how that is. So one is a proper comparison and one is not. EIther way the minis are roughly comparable cost wise. Alpha Srike/Battletech are slightly better quality overall with the newer ones but have almost no poseability without cutting them up. Robotech has seams and sprue connections to clean up but has multiple poses to a decent degree without having to cut the mini apart. Costs on each are similar. So it's more of a trade off. Poseability and more work to make them look good or little to no poseability and a better looking mini.

For the target market PB SHOULD have done minis with 3-4 poses and really nice looking, or even prepainted. Now they will face an uphill climb to bring in new players that may cause the death of the game. Time will tell.

 Mike1975 wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Those people are wrong and bad and misguided and they should feel sad.

yeah well they are PB suck ups so their word will be heard more then ours.

I'm getting really tired of the depth of you pool of BS there Rick. Rick is upset he did not get what he wanted. Cool. Fine. BUT he says he wants it all to succeed but he is a knight helping it succeed by hoping PB completely fails in this and that the outcome will be someone else picking up the license. Considering how fast HG and PB moves and history the chances of that happening are like 0.0098% (Pun Intended)

Calling people who oppose ANY and all views that he has shills and suck ups is his stock and trade as he seeks to elevate himself by tearing down others.

Here is a typical example. Even though I don't like NMI and his tactics this is typical of Rick.
------------------------------------------------------
Mike1975 wrote:
This is NMI on the Facebook page

Ziur Y'Reffej Only a handful of Canadian orders havent gone out - those go out Monday. Oh no!!!
Overseas people will still be getting their rewards BEFORE their local retailers get theirs -- So where's the drama????


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing is that ROW will have before THEIR local retailers but not before US retailers. There is a difference. Some may think it enough and others will not but there it is.


NMI is really clueless isn't he, also hes not helping PB with that post.
---------------------------------------------------

So while in many ways Rick has some good points he has vacillated from proof that PB had two different companies designing minis to I think the are and back as it suits his purposes. He has threatened lawsuits and then changed the focus of his complaints numerous times. More for himself and his own ego than out of any desire to do any good. The minis were going to go in the closet forever to now going to be painted after his Space Marines are done. Also from being a minis expert to asking everyone here what glue to use. So while I'm not happy with everything that PB has or does do I want my minis in all 3 Generations. I will have them one way or another...with or without PB. I could go on.

Now back to the point.

There are people who want all the same scale, others who do not. PB is very aware of this. Just because Ricky does not is no cause to call everyone else suck ups but honestly it comes as NO surprise. Ideas are still being thrown around. I find it funny how much "inside" information/BS Rick claims to have from one day to the next.

The pile is getting higher and higher. I just get tired of the stink.

umm Mike where did I ever ask what type of glue to use? since i'm the one telling people to use ABS friendly glue, furthermore you should pay attention other places since it seems some UK players might be taking legal action against PB I once said other country laws are different and what may fly in one country will not fly in another, and PB not being an international company is probably not aware of the laws in other countries, i'm waiting for the overseas buyers to start chiming in about duties and taxs and such when they get their packages.

Furthermore I have told you how their is proof that 2 different designers, that is evident in the Sprues spacers, no where, I repeat nowhere will you find any company even ND who uses 2 different type of sprue center spaces, lets face it your argument is nothing but misleading lies and half truths you wish were true.

the evidence is out there and it is truly blowing up in Palladiums face after their recent action.

also your evidence about my post really that's the best you got? NMI PB's main Forum Moderator tells the international backers to shut up and chill, because they feel they got screwed is not hurting PB's reputation?

You did ask for the glue, and on this site. I remember quite well as I pointed it out to a few others how hypocritical that was after swearing to so may that you were a minis expert. I could simply go back through the last 50 pages and find it but it is not worth the effort.

As far as proof, like I said, you have some evidence and need something to corroborate it. You said none of the other ND sprues were like that and have yet to prove that point and even IF you did...again....what difference would that make? ND still put their name on it all and are partly responsible just a PB is.

NMI said this
Ziur Y'Reffej Only a handful of Canadian orders havent gone out - those go out Monday. Oh no!!!
Overseas people will still be getting their rewards BEFORE their local retailers get theirs -- So where's the drama????

NOT
NMI PB's main Forum Moderator tells the international backers to shut up and chill, because they feel they got screwed is not hurting PB's reputation?

So your creating drama or what?

He's a moron when it comes to handling people and the last "So where's the drama?" should have been left out but he did not say shut up and chill, at least not in that post. I know. I posted it from Facebook.

 Mike1975 wrote:
You did ask for the glue, and on this site. I remember quite well as I pointed it out to a few others how hypocritical that was after swearing to so may that you were a minis expert. I could simply go back through the last 50 pages and find it but it is not worth the effort.

why don't you go look cause doubt you'll find it, I may have asked what type of glue someone was using, or there was the incident where someone showed a regular tube of Testors plastic cement which would make ABS brittle over time.

Not worth it since the rest of the points still stand and are perfectly valid. No sense in trying to go off on a tangent.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Not worth it since the rest of the points still stand and are perfectly valid. No sense in trying to go off on a tangent.

Why cause you now realize it does not exist? lets face it I wanted this game I craved this game and PB has managed to destroy it to the point we will not see any further expansions for it, PB has ruined my dream and others dreams, its gotten to the point usual quiet backers are now being very vocal about PB's latest fingering of backers.

Got my box of plastic crack yesterday, spent all night at work builidng and part of today. My opinion, for those willing to read it: I like the models very much. I had a couple isues at first (as I typically refuse to look at instructions unless I have to), but after the initial mecha of each type the rest got done pretty quickly. I think my favorite so far is the VT in fighter mode, I gave it the missle pods on the outside and the three missles grouped together on the inside and they just look mean. My only real gripe, is how the hips are assembled and that has to do more with the speed I assemble (I don't give things much time to dry) than anything else. They don't feel too small, or too difficult to get into decent poses.

Man, this thread.

I kind of wish someone would post concept art with knock-kneed, pigeon-toed veritechs to lighten the mood.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Got my box of plastic crack yesterday, spent all night at work builidng and part of today. My opinion, for those willing to read it: I like the models very much. I had a couple isues at first (as I typically refuse to look at instructions unless I have to), but after the initial mecha of each type the rest got done pretty quickly. I think my favorite so far is the VT in fighter mode, I gave it the missle pods on the outside and the three missles grouped together on the inside and they just look mean. My only real gripe, is how the hips are assembled and that has to do more with the speed I assemble (I don't give things much time to dry) than anything else. They don't feel too small, or too difficult to get into decent poses.

How did you do the arms on the guardians? Did you just leave the tabs exposed, or did you find a way to clip them and still fit the arms under the wings?

Well on the first one I cliped the tabs that slot into the body (didn't know those were necessary >.> ), and it also happened to be the one I decided to have both arms gripping the gun pod. I don't have the minis in front of me but if I recall correctly I popped the legs off and put the arms on under the wings then put the legs back on in a way that fit under the arms.

The second one I did I left the tabs on.

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Got my box of plastic crack yesterday, spent all night at work builidng and part of today. My opinion, for those willing to read it: I like the models very much. I had a couple isues at first (as I typically refuse to look at instructions unless I have to), but after the initial mecha of each type the rest got done pretty quickly. I think my favorite so far is the VT in fighter mode, I gave it the missle pods on the outside and the three missles grouped together on the inside and they just look mean. My only real gripe, is how the hips are assembled and that has to do more with the speed I assemble (I don't give things much time to dry) than anything else. They don't feel too small, or too difficult to get into decent poses.

I love this post. It pumps me up for mine to arrive.

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Well on the first one I cliped the tabs that slot into the body (didn't know those were necessary >.> ), and it also happened to be the one I decided to have both arms gripping the gun pod. I don't have the minis in front of me but if I recall correctly I popped the legs off and put the arms on under the wings then put the legs back on in a way that fit under the arms.

The second one I did I left the tabs on.

So, basically, not as the mini is intended to go together. My main complaints are that the RDF minis are terribly designed for someone following the directions, which you didn't. I've pretty much been cutting all the tabs off on the RDF minis, but I used the separate one-handed rifle arms. I also had let the legs and wings dry and harden before trying the arms, and it was painful.

Did the one with the tabs on go all the way in? On my guardians, the tabs run into one of the pin/hole sections from the fuselage before they fit all the way into the hole.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Spartan-Kun wrote:
Well on the first one I cliped the tabs that slot into the body (didn't know those were necessary >.> ), and it also happened to be the one I decided to have both arms gripping the gun pod. I don't have the minis in front of me but if I recall correctly I popped the legs off and put the arms on under the wings then put the legs back on in a way that fit under the arms.

The second one I did I left the tabs on.

So, basically, not as the mini is intended to go together. My main complaints are that the RDF minis are terribly designed for someone following the directions, which you didn't. I've pretty much been cutting all the tabs off on the RDF minis, but I used the separate one-handed rifle arms. I also had let the legs and wings dry and harden before trying the arms, and it was painful.

Did the one with the tabs on go all the way in? On my guardians, the tabs run into one of the pin/hole sections from the fuselage before they fit all the way into the hole.

Apparently not, but I did assemble them in what seemed like the easiest and most effective manner. Feth the instructions lol so long as they go together, look correct, and I don't feel the need to cause bodily harm to anyone then I'm happy.

All the way in? No not really.

Just out of curiosity, do these look like blobs to you guys?

http://www.steelcrowngames.com/products/sisterhood-themis-squad

I'm thinking it is totally possible to make 6mm figures that are not trash.

Bobtheinquisitor, I do believe that the kickstarter would not have been nearly the success it was if this game was at any other scale other than 6mm. Many battletech players bought into this game to get their unseen minis.

Asterios wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Not worth it since the rest of the points still stand and are perfectly valid. No sense in trying to go off on a tangent.

Why cause you now realize it does not exist? lets face it I wanted this game I craved this game and PB has managed to destroy it to the point we will not see any further expansions for it, PB has ruined my dream and others dreams, its gotten to the point usual quiet backers are now being very vocal about PB's latest fingering of backers.

Nope I just don't think it's worth the effort since it distracts from my other points which remain valid.

What do you guys think of these?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone made a modified glaug with missiles on it and I thought it was really cool looking

 Swabby wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do these look like blobs to you guys?

http://www.steelcrowngames.com/products/sisterhood-themis-squad
.

if PB did them they would

 Swabby wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do these look like blobs to you guys?

http://www.steelcrowngames.com/products/sisterhood-themis-squad

I'm thinking it is totally possible to make 6mm figures that are not trash.

Bobtheinquisitor, I do believe that the kickstarter would not have been nearly the success it was if this game was at any other scale other than 6mm. Many battletech players bought into this game to get their unseen minis.

Those look like renders. Really, really zoomed in renders. In reality they would just be too small. Besides, they are not plastic, so I am not interested.

Just because it is possible doesn't mean it should be done. Even if they could make 6mm cyclones look good, they would still look small. They could look perfect under a microscope, but I wouldn't want to play with them.

You may have a point. Were the Invid unseen minis less than half an inch tall when they were in Battletech?

@Bobtheinquisitor - I can attest that those onslaught miniatures are that ridiculously detailed. They're cast in metal and are of excellent quality (should be pictures for the actual casts on their website). PB could really learn something from them.

 Duskland wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor - I can attest that those onslaught miniatures are that ridiculously detailed. They're cast in metal and are of excellent quality (should be pictures for the actual casts on their website). PB could really learn something from them.

That's pretty impressive, but I hope RTT never goes metal. Making them metal and 6mm would be like cutting off your nose to draw attention away from your crooked teeth.

 Swabby wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do these look like blobs to you guys?

http://www.steelcrowngames.com/products/sisterhood-themis-squad

I'm thinking it is totally possible to make 6mm figures that are not trash.

Bobtheinquisitor, I do believe that the kickstarter would not have been nearly the success it was if this game was at any other scale other than 6mm. Many battletech players bought into this game to get their unseen minis.

I think the "Actual Size: 6mm" image below the primary one is pretty damned small from 1.5-2 feet away on my monitor, and I'm sure that from 3-5 feet away on a table, I wouldn't exactly be appreciating much detail that might have been added.

Holy hell those are small. Cyclones are awesome units, I sure hope I'm not trying to paint 1mm long 'sabers' onto some of those.

 Swabby wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do these look like blobs to you guys?

http://www.steelcrowngames.com/products/sisterhood-themis-squad

I'm thinking it is totally possible to make 6mm figures that are not trash.

Bobtheinquisitor, I do believe that the kickstarter would not have been nearly the success it was if this game was at any other scale other than 6mm. Many battletech players bought into this game to get their unseen minis.

These are the actual minis instead of the renders. still bery nice:

I dont have a problem with 6mm and I enjoy Epic:A

BUT

I dont feel that Robotech is a game that suits that scale.

I havent watched the tv series but used to play the RPG game back in the day and we always played the Invid invasion as a very 'hit and run' underground rebellion style.

6mm battles with tens or even hundreds of cyclones fighting a wave of invid sounds exciting but it doesnt fit the fluff from what i recall (I could be totally wrong though)

 MangoMadness wrote:
I dont have a problem with 6mm and I enjoy Epic:A

BUT

I dont feel that Robotech is a game that suits that scale.

I havent watched the tv series but used to play the RPG game back in the day and we always played the Invid invasion as a very 'hit and run' underground rebellion style.

6mm battles with tens or even hundreds of cyclones fighting a wave of invid sounds exciting but it doesnt fit the fluff from what i recall (I could be totally wrong though)

Mospeada is certainly like that, but there was a big previous invasion that conquered the planet, so...