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 MangoMadness wrote:
I dont have a problem with 6mm and I enjoy Epic:A

BUT

I dont feel that Robotech is a game that suits that scale.

I havent watched the tv series but used to play the RPG game back in the day and we always played the Invid invasion as a very 'hit and run' underground rebellion style.

6mm battles with tens or even hundreds of cyclones fighting a wave of invid sounds exciting but it doesnt fit the fluff from what i recall (I could be totally wrong though)

there was only a handful of Cyclones thru most of the show usually just 3 also the invid scouts are the same height too, so at 6mm they both would be small.

heights based on Palladiums RPG book:

Invid Scout: 8.3 feet

Invid Armoured Scout: 9 feet

Invid Trooper: 16.6 feet

Invid Shock Trooper: 19 feet

Invid Command Unit: 26 feet

Royal Command Battloid: 29 feet

Invid Enforcer: 7 feet

the largest Invid is just over half the size of a Battlepod from the Macross series

The Cyclone: 7 feet

Alpha Fighter: 28.7 feet

Beta Fighter: 35 feet


the veritechs in macros were about 43 feet while the pods were about 50 feet.

these heights are based on the Robotech RPG.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I was wondering who gets mounted on the larger base, the recovery pod or the officer pod?

 Fireflyjmh wrote:
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I was wondering who gets mounted on the larger base, the recovery pod or the officer pod?

The officer pod.

Honestly if you are trying to play mospeada RPG tactics you are doing it wrong. This game should be recreating the larger scale battles between the REF and the invid at that point in the timeline.

If you guys want a skirmish between a couple of cyclones and invid you already have access to much larger renditions of both of those, why encourage throwing off the scale of the game here?

The entire cast of Mospeada could be represented on a single base at this scale, and quite honestly if they are running around in cyclones they should be. Hell, the cyclone isn't even a primary system, it is an emergency backup vehicle.

 Swabby wrote:
Hell, the cyclone isn't even a primary system, it is an emergency backup vehicle.

true but it was the primary fighting vehicle in the show though.

Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.

 Swabby wrote:
Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.

that and the "Kiss" maneuver or Minmae song and so on.

 Swabby wrote:
Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars. Otherwise we would have rules for your unit commander losing turns because he is arguing with an old sourpuss over comms.

It's actually trying to do both.

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast-paced, tabletop combat game that captures the action and adventure of the Robotech® anime.

Two or more players can engage in small squad skirmishes or scale up to massive battles.

https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/55100-Robotech-RPG-Tactics-Box-Set.html

It seems like it fails at the former though... *ever longing for Vermillion squadron and the abandoned skirmish rules* :(

 Swabby wrote:
Yeah but this game is not trying to recreate the show, it is trying to represent the battles that happened during the robotech wars.

Actually, I think this is where the 'RPG in miniatures' hurts them as it confuses the purpose of the game.

To run a massive battle in a RPG format, most of the outcome has to be predetermined based on the success or failure of players actions as the players are only a part of the battle. This is best represented as having the players as individual models and unless they are all fighting in giant robots, 6mm scale that is just crazy. A larger scale is much better for a RPG format when dealing with more man sized combatants.

To run a massive battle as a Wargame, smaller scales allow for more units on the table and for a larger scale battle to be represented, in this case depending on the combatants size 2mm, 6mm, 10mm can all give that impression.

If Robotech was actually pushed as a Wargame, then great, keep the scale the same (thanks for the replies about the invid wars to those people ) but as a RPG it might have to run multiple scales to be relevent as a RPG format.

It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .

 Swabby wrote:
It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .

Good for the people that followed, now for anyone that pick this up that didn't it would be a slap in the face. Not, that this game will last it is pretty much DOA.

I'm curious if any of the folks now unhappy about palladium changing the KS deal terms regarding getting it "first" in the ROW voted yes back during the rigged gencon vote when they figured it wouldn't affect them personally.

Yup, found one on my third google search. Graham Bailey, you voted yes for palladium to screw over backers when you thought it wouldn't affect you...now karma is biting you on the behind. Don't get me wrong; it is yet another douche move on the part of palladium and it hurts overseas fans but it is a move that folks like Graham Bailey reinforced their convictions to do.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/910143?page=21

Palladium was going to do this REGARDLESS of how many yes votes they got. -_- Blaming some random guy off the net isn't going to help

It is worth keeping in mind how they do business, however.

How many dozens of people condescendingly said "oh, why are you so worried, you'll get your boxes a few weeks later!" during the 'vote'?

Now imagine if they had been able to sell at Gencon.

Hundreds of boxes in people's hands in mid August.

But most U.S. and Canadian backers wouldn't have gotten their stuff until November/December, 3-4 months later (assuming they hadn't managed to sell enough to impact their ability to deliver), and ROW boxes still wouldn't be on their way.

If people thought the Gencon debacle got ugly, there'd be figurative torches and pitchforks by now.

That's what they attempted to do, and only a customs snarl prevented it from happening. Now, obviously they couldn't have known there'd be a fire, or that so many containers would've been checked by customs, but that's where we would've been.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and PB cloaks themselves in good intentions and rainbows despite untold people around them explaining very carefully why this isn't a great idea.

Sining wrote:
Palladium was going to do this REGARDLESS of how many yes votes they got. -_- Blaming some random guy off the net isn't going to help.

If you care to reread my post, I said it REINFORCED their decision, not caused it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of being OK with Palladium selling the stuff to non-backers when it doesn't immediately affect their demographic but does others but then suddenly NOT being ok with it when it ONLY affects your demographic. That vote reinforced their bad behavior and dishonesty and I saw more than a few posts from overseas backers who were fine with selling at gencon including a few that pointed out specifically that it didn't affect them. That's why I checked the names and the third one I googled pinged back positive for hypocrisy. If folks like him don't want to be complete hypocrites then they should support the decision now as well. If other people getting their stuff delayed was ok in order to "grow" the game during a critical sales period, then it should be ok for HIM to have HIS stuff delayed during another critical sales period. I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.

"Technically", a whole lot of people reinforced their decision through absent votes, I can't remember if I voted so I might be one!

 Swabby wrote:
Honestly if you are trying to play mospeada RPG tactics you are doing it wrong. This game should be recreating the larger scale battles between the REF and the invid at that point in the timeline.

Where do you get this? The rule book has a bunch of characters from the show... The Invid saga probably will, too. Even so, battles in Robotech are not a "massed lines of troops" kind of affair.

If you guys want a skirmish between a couple of cyclones and invid you already have access to much larger renditions of both of those, why encourage throwing off the scale of the game here?

If you can point me to plastic Invid models in roughly tabletop sizes and prices, I would love to buy them. Please show me where I can buy some so I can stop caring about Robotech Tactics: The New Generation right now.

Also, I encourage throwing off the scale when it becomes unworkable. No matter how much you love 6mm games, the idea of putting tiny mecha together on stands instead of making them a comfortable size is just awful.

The entire cast of Mospeada could be represented on a single base at this scale, and quite honestly if they are running around in cyclones they should be.

There. I just threw up. Are you happy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Swabby wrote:
It should be obvious to everyone involved who has payed attention to the way this has all played out that they wanted a wargame but had to shoehorn the RPG into the thing for licensing reasons. .

How do you know they wanted a massive wargame and not a skirmish game where every character is important? Is it because that would blow up your arguments for 6mm micro-cyclones?

I think it's because they aren't allowed to use the characters likenesses from the show.

They have the characters in the book. Do you mean they can't make minis based on specific characters?

Really not surprised that i will not get my stuff before retail in USA, less than happy about it though.
Was supposed to be a Christmas present for last year, looks like it won't be one for this year either lol. And when i do it will probably have a nice custom charge on it despite them telling me it wouldn't.
PB - the gift that keeps giving.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They have the characters in the book. Do you mean they can't make minis based on specific characters?

Pretty sure they can't make miniatures of the characters.

 warboss wrote:
I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.

Well, that's just mental. With nothing shipped before EVERY backer had received their rewards, the game would be dead for another year at least. I am a backer, and so the same promises were made to me here in England as were made to you. But even if I had Wave 1 stuff (I have a single set of UEDF decals which I have asked them to keep until they ship my wave 2 stuff, no need for decals until I have models to put them on, right?) and even IF you meant "Wave 1" rather than the whole lot, I would not expect anything here in England until the new year - Australia even later - and that means you want PB to miss out on a load of Christmas business? That seems like a sure-fire way of killing any further investement in the line to me.

The worst thing that could happen so far as I am concerned is for PB to ship my decals, then state that there is not the demand for the product that was anticipated and no further work is to be done. They will get to keep my money, and I have one expensive set of decals that I don't have models for.

And I still don't know who I can buy from in the UK, so I can't even say I can pick up some Valks retail!

Funny when you are talking about scale:
This is a pic of Battletech models with one of the bigger mechs (Atlas 100 ton ~2" in height) with tanks and troops (same scale 1:285 / 6mm):
Here is some Epic 40k troops alongside a 28mm scale space marine:
So doing cyclones or standard troops for that matter should not be a big deal.
Ah, found some epic space marine bikes:

Joyboozer wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They have the characters in the book. Do you mean they can't make minis based on specific characters?

Pretty sure they can't make miniatures of the characters.

You are correct they stated as much during the kickstarter. That may only apply for macross however.


Joyboozer, the action figures and invid models from the 80s would work fine for what you are going for on the table funny enough there is another outfit making figures at a scale smaller than RRT for the mospeada. As far as robotech not having massive battles, are we even watching the same show? The show likes to focus on the characters, but they are nearly always (mospeada aside) involved in these epic sweeping battles that are going on all around them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you can get some 28mmish kits:

http://www.amazon.com/Mospeada-Legioss-AFC-01H-Scale-Model/dp/B001V9BG2A

Umm, Conrad, he did say "shipped", not "received".

And that's not all that unreasonable. It wouldn't be "dead for another year", they should have those damned boxes out of the warehouse ASAP, and if "shipping 1,000-2,000 boxes to places other than the US and Canada" is that baffling that they can't sort it out by the end of the year, then that's on them.

Keeping in mind that even accepting that 'omg international shipping is soooo much paperwork', they were proud to declare how they were knocking out ~1,000 boxes in a weekend repeatedly.

So it's sounding an awful lot like they know the light is at the end of the tunnel, but rather than miss this sales opportunity, they're plunging ahead regardless of their previous promises.

They were very, very clear about how being a backer meant "having it in hand first and it making us grin" and other extremely creepy statements.

And now for a sizable portion of the backer base (between 1/3 and 1/2, roughly), no, they will not. They'll be able to order them from MM or MM or CSI, and quite possibly have them deliver ahead of those backer boxes. For all their assertions that retail delivery hasn't begun, we're already starting to see the stuff show up in stores.

 Conrad Turner wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I'm of the opinion personally that nothing should have been shipped to anyone else before every backer at least had their's shipped and at least I'm consistent.

Well, that's just mental. With nothing shipped before EVERY backer had received their rewards, the game would be dead for another year at least. I am a backer, and so the same promises were made to me here in England as were made to you. But even if I had Wave 1 stuff (I have a single set of UEDF decals which I have asked them to keep until they ship my wave 2 stuff, no need for decals until I have models to put them on, right?) and even IF you meant "Wave 1" rather than the whole lot, I would not expect anything here in England until the new year - Australia even later - and that means you want PB to miss out on a load of Christmas business? That seems like a sure-fire way of killing any further investement in the line to me.

The worst thing that could happen so far as I am concerned is for PB to ship my decals, then state that there is not the demand for the product that was anticipated and no further work is to be done. They will get to keep my money, and I have one expensive set of decals that I don't have models for.

And I still don't know who I can buy from in the UK, so I can't even say I can pick up some Valks retail!

I was referring to wave 1 and I specified shipped, not received. As for the rest, it is the promise that palladium made repeatedly over the last year and a half and one that they now have repeatedly done their best to break. BTW, if you'd like to get your decals (or anything else wave 1) early, you can now feel free to order them from US stores and get them in all likelihood within 3 weeks. Folks who pledged a year and a half ago shouldn't be getting their products shipped after folks who just clicked "buy" on a website a few days ago or bought it at gencon a few months ago... but they are. It has to do with integrity and that continues to be problematic with Palladium along with project management and real communication. Just like with gencon, they chose to prioritize retail order at the expense of pledger packages. That in my book is the wrong thing to do. If they're at risk of missing out on yet another critical sales period, it is 100% their (HG, PB, ND) fault and they have only themselves to blame due to two years of mismanagement (counting the 6 months of prep work they did to get to the infamous 98% done preKS state).

Well a Karma Curse is placed upon Palladium, they are cursed to reap what they sow, all that shall happen to them shall be of their own doing.

Yes Warboss, I mistyped. I meant to put shipped.

I know full well that by the end of the week I could have a set of VTs in the post to me and be able to get them built and painted before any of the UK KS packages get delivered, but what is the point of having the decals I had in my KS rewards without any models to stick them on? I have got all I will ever require from RRT from the KS and there is no point in getting more models for a game I will never play - and why would I ever give my hard-earned to PB again for anything is currently beyond me.

But unless you mean that "Shipped" to EU and RoW backers is "Chucked in a container which could go on a ship any week, then to travel for weeks to a destination we have not yet specified, prior to being unloaded, sorted, re-packed, and finally re-shipped" then the delay is certainly going to put continental US retail sales back until next year. Even for wave 1. And although I have zero more interest in RRT, there are people who want PB to work on other models/rules for the other generations, so why would I wish it to die just because I will get what I want out of it?

[Let's see. I wonder how long it's going to be from now to the first Australian backer gets a shipping notice? Anyone want to take a bet on whether it's before or after CNY?]

I can quite agree that PB ought to change their name to DB with all the broken promises they've made since this project started, but that doesn't mean I have no empathy for people who want expansions or other generations that were not covered in the KS. And if the only way for there to be a big enough player-base for PB to believe that more content/models/etc. is for them to sell at retail in countries where backers have already been shipped their rewards, then I just don't see the problem. So far as I know, retail + shipping will be more expensive than waiting for my stuff to arrive (Especially as a lot of my stuff is KS exclusives) and it's not like I wanted them for a present or anything so can't get that worked up about the delays too much - I'll still get stuff that I previously hadn't dare dream I'd end up getting one day.

IF there was ANY way that expansions and more models could be officially produced, or possibly better yet, a completely new game with similar scale models with better production values made without PB's involvement, then I'd be all over it. However, me being glad that I have limited involvement does not mean I wish it to fail completely.

I have nothing left to hold over PB books.
I am still waiting for Wave1 and never mind the great unknown: Wave2.
After my stuff is received I want nothing to do with them again and wish them much fail.
So, no repeat customer = no leverage.
Wonder how they will advertise to those where Robotech was here and gone before they were born?
Looking forward to seeing if my local stores even hear of the game and get it in.

<edit> Unless I find Forar and other backers to play with and actually enjoy the game... then retail may get something out of me, but only RETAIL.

 Talizvar wrote:
I have nothing left to hold over PB books.
I am still waiting for Wave1 and never mind the great unknown: Wave2.
After my stuff is received I want nothing to do with them again and wish them much fail.
So, no repeat customer = no leverage.
Wonder how they will advertise to those where Robotech was here and gone before they were born?
Looking forward to seeing if my local stores even hear of the game and get it in.

<edit> Unless I find Forar and other backers to play with and actually enjoy the game... then retail may get something out of me, but only RETAIL.

I think Forar is selling his stuff off, but not sure if it was all of it ?