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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Great, now you've summoned Brandon... OTOH, the argument of which game has worse rules should be amusing.

Oh lord, this made me laugh out loud in the middle of a meeting. Thanks for the humor in the middle of my day!

@Forar:

Is it really surprising though with the limited options (despite what the parts count was supposed to indicate) that folks are doing that?

I haven't been following the Rick and Boba show over at the comments regularly for months (with one exception) but I was under the impression from comments here that after some sort of cease and desist from his models that he was out of the inner circle. Is he "back" in the bosom (or buttcrack since that's where the sun DOES shine at Palladium!) of Palladium after that?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Huh? It's very clear that the UN SPACY lettering is only upright when the gun is inverted for fighter model. In Battloid mode, the upright gun will have the lettering inverted.

I copied images to make my point of upside-down.
If you look around the net more, many images have them upright in gun mode.
Sometimes in the actual show they make a point of not writing anything (I think just to save on work).
"Canon" as pointed out is to have the writing upside-down in gun mode which makes for funny looks from those not in the know...

 Forar wrote:
I find it very funny how many people are doing either "the Captain Morgan stance" or "dodging/flying to one side" to make use of some of those 90 degree legs. Sure, some people are cutting and customizing, but it's sort of hilarious how widespread that pose it becoming.

I haven't even primed anything yet, but I can see doing the gunpods either way. We're talking about fighters that dramatically change shape. Self-orienting decals are kind of low key in comparison. Though I'm not sure I'll bother putting them on at all, as I've always found "UN SPACEY" to be kind of dumb.

As for the Battlepods, I've been mixing and matching a little across the half dozen I have built. It's imperfect, but the poses aren't too awkward for my liking at least. It does make me kind of glad I only have 7 more VTs and 9 more Pods to go, so I won't have to fight too much to keep some variety.

And yeah, it has been kind of quiet lately. People are moving onto new projects, the ROW'ers are a fairly small minority and mostly seem to be vocal in the update comments, I wonder how long it'll take before Wave 2 begins to get some community focus (because despite saying they'd have stuff to show soon for a good month now, PB doesn't seem to be in any rush to show off what they do have done).

I've heard that they're 98% ready to update us on Wave 2.

But don't worry guys, I have on good authority (hi B_S!) that they're totally close to being done W2! Any day now. Annnnny day at all.....

 Talizvar wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Huh? It's very clear that the UN SPACY lettering is only upright when the gun is inverted for fighter model. In Battloid mode, the upright gun will have the lettering inverted.

I copied images to make my point of upside-down.
If you look around the net more, many images have them upright in gun mode.
Sometimes in the actual show they make a point of not writing anything (I think just to save on work).
"Canon" as pointed out is to have the writing upside-down in gun mode which makes for funny looks from those not in the know...

OK, got it. I say, go with the high-end Japanese kits as reference - the ones which obsess over the license details will get it right, "upside-down" lettering and all!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, got it. I say, go with the high-end Japanese kits as reference - the ones which obsess over the license details will get it right, "upside-down" lettering and all!

That is better advice than I could give proper credit.
I had supplied the Japanese for many years and their level of detail can be listed as "obsessive" if not by our standards "insane".
It is not always proper to paint with a broad brush but "typically" anything of manufacture considered the best of it's kind tends to be found in Japan, unless made by Canadians within a Japanese company...

 warboss wrote:
@Forar:

Is it really surprising though with the limited options (despite what the parts count was supposed to indicate) that folks are doing that?

That's why I said it was funny. Not that it was surprising. Do try to keep up, good chap. :-P

More of a 'great minds thinking alike!' with some eye rolling aimed at PB's idea of "multi-pose minis" including being forced to use kind of an obnoxious stance and how some 'solutions' seemed to becoming quite common. Similarly the "Tomahawks with open or closed chest pieces... that is to say, 1 will be open and 1 will be closed, or mix and match! MPM!"

Edit: though we joked before about the power of the Zentraedi kick-line earlier. Perhaps it's fitting that the RDF be forced to have a kick line of their own.

I haven't been following the Rick and Boba show over at the comments regularly for months (with one exception) but I was under the impression from comments here that after some sort of cease and desist from his models that he was out of the inner circle. Is he "back" in the bosom (or buttcrack since that's where the sun DOES shine at Palladium!) of Palladium after that?

B_S? He's been pretty quiet on the KS comments once his 'omg I have a box and will youtube the gak out of it' period (aside from a little cheerleading when an update goes down), but after his "IP LAW BAD RAWR AMERICA FREEDOM CRYING EAGLE!" tantrum on Mike's page, he seems to have settled back into general commentary. I only swing through there once in a while, but he's definitely still chattering away here and there.

 Talizvar wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, got it. I say, go with the high-end Japanese kits as reference - the ones which obsess over the license details will get it right, "upside-down" lettering and all!

That is better advice than I could give proper credit.
I had supplied the Japanese for many years and their level of detail can be listed as "obsessive" if not by our standards "insane".
It is not always proper to paint with a broad brush but "typically" anything of manufacture considered the best of it's kind tends to be found in Japan, unless made by Canadians within a Japanese company...

There is something in the Japanese national character such that they earnestly do little things with exacting precision and attention to detail. Like Bonsai. It's something that I have noticed that they do exceedingly well, and when it reaches the level at which rightsholders and creators approve, well, yeah, it's pretty insane if you're not used to it. I think for them, it's a real point of pride to do something that they consider "correct". I'm always glad to see someone sweat the details.

 Forar wrote:
Similarly the "Tomahawks with open or closed chest pieces... that is to say, 1 will be open and 1 will be closed, or mix and match! MPM!"

Ah yes, then the "gun arms up", "gun arms down", "walking legs" or the "standing legs", the mixing and matching is endless!
Funny, this seems to apply to all the destroids except the one without missiles (which I cannot remember the name to... bad, very bad...).
Ah! and do not forget the "Command" add-on that only seems to fit properly on a Tomahawk... will think on how to attach that fancy head-piece on the other dudes.

I found the 90 deg veritech leg you can cut and straighten a bit and build-up the back of the knee with green stuff so you can have two new stances:
"leaning back a bit on a slightly bent leg" (recoil) and the " walking forward with leg slightly bent at front and straight leg pushing off at back".
This is the genius I have to offer, it was very creative I thought...

The jets are the hardest to show any character at all, cutting the wings to a more swept back look for the leader was the best I could come up with.

I have no idea what to do with the Glaug.
It stands there with gun arm raised, looking intimidating.
Could we say it is hard to improve on a good thing?

The pods have so much character:
- both guns aimed: I will destroy you!
- both guns aimed away and up: I see nothing!
- little guns and big guns aimed in two different directions: We are outnumbered!!
- crouched: I am so jetting out of here!
- looking down: That micronian is around here somewhere... wait, did I step on him??

As it all starts getting together the mind turns to painting, this shall be fun.
Like assembly, I may not dwell on the decals just yet...

 Talizvar wrote:
Funny, this seems to apply to all the destroids except the one without missiles (which I cannot remember the name to... bad, very bad...).

The pods have so much character:

Rifleman! Er, Destroid Defender!

Good thing you have a lot of them! Also, that they're easy to build.

I had concern about the Glaug too and how you could pose the sucker and there was a small painting and posing contest on the FB page. Here are some pics.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vfkdXei1LcFlNVG13N1RzemdWQURweWFQdVlVNEhLRW5mamFYUTJFWk9feWc&usp=sharing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a good way to use an extra battloid

 Mike1975 wrote:
I had concern about the Glaug too and how you could pose the sucker and there was a small painting and posing contest on the FB page. Here are some pics.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0VSNzmthd1vfkdXei1LcFlNVG13N1RzemdWQURweWFQdVlVNEhLRW5mamFYUTJFWk9feWc&usp=sharing
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a good way to use an extra battloid

So we have the "Hold-on guys I got this" pose.
The super leap and land pose.
Then the classic foot on the defeated enemy. I might want to have foot-on-enemy-and-leveling-gun-to-head.

The running one I like the most but there must be a way to reduce the length of the stride: it is a bit much for the size of the base.
I think cutting the bottoms of the legs to feet so they are round and having a walking pose may do the trick: I think that may be the simplest mod with good payback.
The trick may be figuring out how to bend (cut) a leg so the hip pegs remain at the same height (<edit>maybe cut a bit inside the foot to level out?).
Yeah, I think this model is the most challenging to show some variety other than that repair pod which really I am unsure I want to do much with anyway.

Running the risk of being repetitive: Wave 2... rumors, progress, leaks, taking thumbscrews to key PB personnel...
<edit> Gone from kickstarter to kickstop.

Clearly, Palladium failed by not giving enough parts for posability. If only the knees and elbows had been joints, so we could have more posing options.

Two pieces as "lower leg and upper leg" rather than "left half and right half"?

By jove I think you're onto something.

Or at the very least, make the 90 degree an optional piece, not a requirement for 50% of Battloids (barring modification, which not all of us are interested in fighting with).

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Clearly, Palladium failed by not giving enough parts for posability. If only the knees and elbows had been joints, so we could have more posing options.

Ha!
I will quit when I am ahead: I really would not have wanted even MORE parts.
Joints are not a bad idea, at least for feet an arc rather than a peg may have worked.
The feet for the Veritech's as an arch you insert into the leg would allow some stride options, similar to their larger toy counterparts.

This is more for bouncing a few ideas to make this work while we wonder what is happening with Wave 2...
Nice little how-to here: http://rpgandtactics.blogspot.ca/2014/09/veritech-battloid-dynamic-poses.html

Wonder how the 1.44 million is doing and the revenue being generated now?
Keep an eye out if Kevin has upgraded his car yet.

No, no no!

That would remove undercut detail!

To do it right, we should have at least 4 pieces per leg
- Left thigh + right thigh;
- Left calf + right calf.

At that point, the ideal configuration uses a separate 2-part foot, for a minimum of 6 pieces per leg.

You know, like the scale model kit that I built as a kid:

Granted, we could cut the polycaps and go with solid wings for the small scale. But I think something like 30 pieces per model would be achievable, vs the 100+ pieces from the 1/72 kit.


Also, it's fail that the Fighter wings weren't mounted on pins to rotate.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You know, like the scale model kit that I built as a kid:

Spoiler:

Granted, we could cut the polycaps and go with solid wings for the small scale. But I think something like 30 pieces per model would be achievable, vs the 100+ pieces from the 1/72 kit.
Also, it's fail that the Fighter wings weren't mounted on pins to rotate.

I made that same kit too.
Your interests and history is sounding more scarily similar to my own...
First model I came across that had metal parts and was designed to move.
Got the "Griffen" (Battletech name for it anyway) kit shortly after.

Anyway, what frightens me is it was quite possible they could have put pegs in for sweeping the wings with no increased part count and cool-factor way up.
Good way to ensure a fantastic join with the wing trapped between halves with a pin <sigh> a missed opportunity.

I wonder how the "bolt-on" versions of veritech (super and armored) will be modeled for Wave2, watch you get the original and then glue a frame over it... the tiny gluing would be exquisitely painful.

Well, continuing with building pods, the leggy little darlings they are, then imbibe a bit and get cracking on another veritech squadron...

I wonder if the slotted fixed wings might have been a carryover from ND working with solid PVC (SDE, RK) versus a fully-transformable Bandai / Imai styrene kit baseline.

It seems more and more we're speaking ill of the dead here these days, but I certainly wish things had been different for RPG Tactics. The models are going to be a significant barrier to entry to anyone that is not a hardcore miniatures gamer/assembler already.

Has anyone seen the Bandai Macross Fighter collection to compare the Tactics minis to? I offer up the below picture from my collection. The scale is slightly larger, and the detail a little less, but Bandai has managed to make decent models with far fewer pieces than the abomination that emerged from Tactics. Of course they are more expensive being pre-painted and all, but the point was someone made Macross models in a vastly easier to assemble way. Basically no assembly, actually. But you could have an entire squadron of Valkyries ready for paint if they had been like the Bandai kits while you were still fiddling with your first Tactics mini.

Granted, Bandai has way more experience with plastic kits than Palladium/Ninja Division. But someone with some sense should have done a little more looking for what to emulate out there. I've attached a picture of a 'Mayor Milia' VF-1 and Basara's custom VF-19 from Macross 7 with one of the Tactics minis here. I think the slightly better overall detail of the Tactics mini is not worth the absurd number of parts that go into making it.

As an aside, I had one of the Robotech Defender 'Vexar' kits assembled on my shelf for many years before a move did him in. Even had painted up the pilot in Hikaru's white/red/blue flight suit. The good old days.....

The models are made the way they are cause of mouthwatering detail /s

Gashapon and candy kits can be very good!

I wonder what instructions ND were given by PB.

I would add besides the Bandai kits having clear canopies, the swing wings on the VF-1 do work as well...

Also, I think the Bandai ones are better proportioned, too. In this shot I think it shows pretty well the nose of the Tactics Valkyrie is noticeably too long and thin.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Gashapon and candy kits can be very good!

I wonder what instructions ND were given by PB.

I'm guessing " unfortunately we only raised 1.4 million, so the miniatures will have to be made as cheaply as possible"

The RRT Valkyrie is based on transformable design, whereby each part has to be the same in all 3 modes. It is a "least bad" compromise of parts.

Bandai is doing a Hasegawa and only worrying about Fighter proportions. The Bandai fighters do not have to worry about looking "good" in Battloid (or Gerwalk) mode.

Offer whatever excuses you like for the poor tortured souls at Palladium & Ninja Division, but their models did not have to be 'least bad' compromises. They are a failure because they are not good game pieces, and they're not good plastic models, either.

CSI has the Valkyrie wing at 65% off:

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/191198

I had quite a few of those Revell Robotech kits. I used to think a lot of them were Southern Cross mechs, as that was the one part of the series I'd mostly skipped over (only having seen the episode where Dana knocks over the police robot, and an episode with a Logan).

I got a gashapon Miraya super veritech in Guardian and Miraya Zent power suit to see how it scaled to RRT. While I love the quality a thousand times over RRT, the models were about twice the size of the minis.

I'm still considering getting an all gashapon force together, but battlepods are expensive for some reason (need something for my beloved UEDF to blow up), and other than just having pretty prepainted models, the RRT game hasn't caught my attention to make it worth diving in to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking over the models left for Wave 2, I'm wondering what they'll do for the Rick & Roy models. Somehow, I think it's just going to be a change out on the microscopic canopy piece (with a skull carved in it, somehow) for Roy's battloid, and a set of new leg poses for Rick (wide straight leg stance, with gun arm tucked in, I'll bet).

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The RRT Valkyrie is based on transformable design, whereby each part has to be the same in all 3 modes. It is a "least bad" compromise of parts.

Bandai is doing a Hasegawa and only worrying about Fighter proportions. The Bandai fighters do not have to worry about looking "good" in Battloid (or Gerwalk) mode.

If I'm not mistaken, the Yamato VF-1s are fully transformable and the proportions are pretty spot on...

Which Yamato VF-1s?

To my eyes, the later version is a huge improvement over the first version. Others tend to agree.





http://anymoon.com/blog/?p=2448

Also, the Yamato toys were well over $100 each... These toys are like $2 each.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Which Yamato VF-1s?

To my eyes, the later version is a huge improvement over the first version. Others tend to agree.

If I'm not mistaken, I've seen first person the 1/48 and 1/60 v2 versions.

Also, the Yamato toys were well over $100 each... These toys are like $2 each.

Yes, they are... but I was answering to this:

Bandai is doing a Hasegawa and only worrying about Fighter proportions. The Bandai fighters do not have to worry about looking "good" in Battloid (or Gerwalk) mode.

I don't think price has anything to do with proportions (particularly not when taking into account that the Robotech models don't need to, you know, transform), and Palladium said time and again they were cutting up the models into so many parts to "get the best detail and fidelity".