Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm new to 6th and I've read probably the top 30 "This is what every unit does - these are bad and this is good" The overall consensus seems to be nurgle is the only way to go for chaos. I'm wondering how dakka feels about that? I'm looking at maybe gunline chaos but I'm not sure how to build that the whole codex is really confusing and everyone seems to disagree on everything lol. Are berserkers worth it? Do you take them in mass numbers or in rhinos? How good are the forgefiends. I've read the reviews and tactica on dakka and watched batreps the only thing I'm for sure on is the heldrake being a must. I'm totally fine with that, I just want to know what to follow it up with. I don't even know if I should be buying chaos marines or cultists...Can anyone help a confused dakkanaut?

There are different ways to play the book but the one constent is, Heldrakes pwn. You can play gunline with CSM, you can go assaulty or a mix. If you want to run mono god, you pigeon hole yourself into a list that isn't strong IMO. I don't personally bring plague marines but I respect what they do. I run noise marines, a khorne lord but no bezerkers. I take nurgle oblits and heldrakes. You can put the most useful mark on a unit depending on the job you want them to do. On the troop decesion, me personally again, I fill my list with power units and see what I have for troops at the end. My gameplan is to get first blood and kill all your troops no matter the cost, because I know the CSM book has some lame ducks for troop choices.

 Goat wrote:
There are different ways to play the book but the one constent is, Heldrakes pwn. You can play gunline with CSM, you can go assaulty or a mix. If you want to run mono god, you pigeon hole yourself into a list that isn't strong IMO. I don't personally bring plague marines but I respect what they do. I run noise marines, a khorne lord but no bezerkers. I take nurgle oblits and heldrakes. You can put the most useful mark on a unit depending on the job you want them to do. On the troop decesion, me personally again, I fill my list with power units and see what I have for troops at the end. My gameplan is to get first blood and kill all your troops no matter the cost, because I know the CSM book has some lame ducks for troop choices.

I just watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLxJJfjK4N4 The beats of war guys talk about them and they basically said "20 csm or nothing" I can see the chaos lord making one of my elites troops but everyone says it's plague marines or bust =/ I just dunno what to do lol Everyone says serkers are a nono and the same for thousand sons. I want to do a themed iron warriors but the list doesn't have to be iron warriors just my paint lol. Although, the way you would play iron warriors seems to be a good way to play csm with the big guns destroying everything and then troops cleaning up. I know the rhinos are just tin cans for delivery and WILL die turn 1-2. I'm looking at daemon prince with the black mace but I don't know if he's worth the points everyone says he's to expensive...confusion thy name is gharron =/

There are different ways to play the book but the one constent is, Heldrakes pwn. You can play gunline with CSM, you can go assaulty or a mix. If you want to run mono god, you pigeon hole yourself into a list that isn't strong IMO. I don't personally bring plague marines but I respect what they do. I run noise marines, a khorne lord but no bezerkers. I take nurgle oblits and heldrakes. You can put the most useful mark on a unit depending on the job you want them to do. On the troop decesion, me personally again, I fill my list with power units and see what I have for troops at the end. My gameplan is to get first blood and kill all your troops no matter the cost, because I know the CSM book has some lame ducks for troop choices.

I've been coming to the same conclusion myself lately. My standard list has had anywhere from 30 to 40 chaos marines in it (usually 1500 and 1850pts.) and they almost always under perform. I feel like the new way to go is almost a lot like Eldar have to do. Figure out a job you want done and customize a unit to do that as best as you possibly can. Each unit ends up being great at one specific thing and terrible at everything else but when you can coordinate everything on the battle field it makes for a hard army to beat.

Tycho wrote:

There are different ways to play the book but the one constent is, Heldrakes pwn. You can play gunline with CSM, you can go assaulty or a mix. If you want to run mono god, you pigeon hole yourself into a list that isn't strong IMO. I don't personally bring plague marines but I respect what they do. I run noise marines, a khorne lord but no bezerkers. I take nurgle oblits and heldrakes. You can put the most useful mark on a unit depending on the job you want them to do. On the troop decesion, me personally again, I fill my list with power units and see what I have for troops at the end. My gameplan is to get first blood and kill all your troops no matter the cost, because I know the CSM book has some lame ducks for troop choices.

I've been coming to the same conclusion myself lately. My standard list has had anywhere from 30 to 40 chaos marines in it (usually 1500 and 1850pts.) and they almost always under perform. I feel like the new way to go is almost a lot like Eldar have to do. Figure out a job you want done and customize a unit to do that as best as you possibly can. Each unit ends up being great at one specific thing and terrible at everything else but when you can coordinate everything on the battle field it makes for a hard army to beat.

I see so many templates and all I can think is shoot shoot shoot. I just dunno what I can do about outshooting guard or when they make it to my line. Should I have termis? Should I have serkers hiding in wait? The seem so weak in melee =/

I see so many templates and all I can think is shoot shoot shoot. I just dunno what I can do about outshooting guard or when they make it to my line. Should I have termis? Should I have serkers hiding in wait? The seem so weak in melee =/

Well, Guard making it to your line for CC really shouldn't be an issue even if all you have is barebones Chaos marines. That's assuming you're talking about the standard issue Guardsmen and not Ogryns or something (which should be shot to death BEFORE they get to you). You probably won't put out more dakka than a Guard army but you don't really have to. Pick your targets and use your higher BS to your advantage. Terminators are great but the Chaos ones are a little pricey for what you get (imo).

Mobile CSM forces are pretty cool.

Steed of Slaanesh with Chaos Lord.

Huron BlackHeart

Start with them and you will have an excellent amount of mobiliy in the force.

As for how to build the army around them, there's a lot of good options.

I did a Cut-specific rundown which might help you decide. Here's a link to the Nurgle Cult feature, which in turn has links to the other cult rundowns:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/03/6th-edition-chaos-space-marine-cults.html

My opinion is that the codex can morph to any play type. Chosen and Havocs for tons of Dakka. You can feature helbrutes, Spawn, Huge CSM units, Khornate berzerkers and Mutilators for melee armies. You can choose a more balanced approach using sheer numbers that translates well in melee AND shooting.

Lots of good options.

Nurgle WAS a big favorite for a while becaue of the Epidemius silliness, but that's now been nerf'd. So I think the door is wide open now.

It kind of depends on your local meta as well. My zerkers will go to town on anything NOT MEQ. A lot of people bring lists built JUST to kill MEQ. And that's why I bring cultists now that it's an option. They wind up wasting their time on the cultists instead of the marines they thought they were going to be dealing with. Slaanesh is very viable due to +1 initiative allowing you to hit first. It is a very flexible codex that allows you build multiple types of armies, from footslogging hordes to mechanized nightmare fuel. Huron allows you to get your favorite weapons in advanced positions. Fabius can pump units up. Everything in the book has a purpose, some of them are just overcosted. Slaanesh raptors can be a hoot as well, Remember that guard scare rather easily, and that we get a lot of stuff that causes fear. Havocs with autocannons will mow through guardsmen from a fair distance away, pressuring them to stay in cover. Swing in with a squad of zerkers and run them into the opponents largest unit. Watch as they cut through them with ease. The only thing to really watch out against guard is when you DO kill the entire unit. Then you tend to be a sitting duck.

 Jancoran wrote:
Mobile CSM forces are pretty cool.

Steed of Slaanesh with Chaos Lord.

Huron BlackHeart

Start with them and you will have an excellent amount of mobiliy in the force.

As for how to build the army around them, there's a lot of good options.

I did a Cut-specific rundown which might help you decide. Here's a link to the Nurgle Cult feature, which in turn has links to the other cult rundowns:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/03/6th-edition-chaos-space-marine-cults.html

My opinion is that the codex can morph to any play type. Chosen and Havocs for tons of Dakka. You can feature helbrutes, Spawn, Huge CSM units, Khornate berzerkers and Mutilators for melee armies. You can choose a more balanced approach using sheer numbers that translates well in melee AND shooting.

Lots of good options.

Nurgle WAS a big favorite for a while becaue of the Epidemius silliness, but that's now been nerf'd. So I think the door is wide open now.

I bought a box of normal marines and I'm going to buy a second. I have the chaos half of dark vengeance and I'm going to try and pick up a demon prince and maybe termies? I'm running an escalation league so I will need 250 point steps but I just don't know what I like and don't. I'm kind of looking at 2 heldrakes and an 8 man squad of bikers. I'm thinking havocs with noise marines and maybe a vindicator with a big blob of marines for fire support and objectives. I just don't know what shines in this book because you need certain things to do certain things but you can't seem to prepare for all comers like I want to.

If you want a NASTY gunline that can take punishment well, Slaanesh is excellent. You can own three units of those and not regret the investment. FANTASTIC weapons options, and their banner allows them an order of protection.

Such a listy is well served by tough blocker typwe units to keep the good times rolling from those crazy Slaaneshi guns.

 Jancoran wrote:
If you want a NASTY gunline that can take punishment well, Slaanesh is excellent. You can own three units of those and not regret the investment. FANTASTIC weapons options, and their banner allows them an order of protection.

Such a listy is well served by tough blocker typwe units to keep the good times rolling from those crazy Slaaneshi guns.

What kind of blockers though? I mean, as far as I can tell everything is overpriced and none of the units really hold their weight. I wouldn't mind noise marines as troops with a lord and a blob of norm marines but I just don't know what's melee heavy enough to warrant the points. The only thing beasts of war said was get termis they're worth the points....doesn't help a lot with only 5-10 models protecting an entire gunline....

"overpriced" is a word we need to take out and SHOOT dead. But I digress. Did you read the slaaaneshi article I wrote? If not, you should.

Ultimately an army DOES REAL damage from select places. Those are the things most valuable to you. Protecting them is a priority. So whether throuh reserves, infiltrating or just patience and hiding, you should be able to cut off threats to tyourt true hammers and they're all expendable as blockers so you dont have to get fancy.

 Jancoran wrote:
"overpriced" is a word we need to take out and SHOOT dead. But I digress. Did you read the slaaaneshi article I wrote? If not, you should.

Ultimately an army DOES REAL damage from select places. Those are the things most valuable to you. Protecting them is a priority. So whether throuh reserves, infiltrating or just patience and hiding, you should be able to cut off threats to tyourt true hammers and they're all expendable as blockers so you dont have to get fancy.

I've been looking at 2 heldrakes with 7 bikers and a khorne lord on juggernaut. 2 units of noise marines a blob of CSM termis some pie plates I'm still not sure on rhinos? I just feel like they're going to end up wasting VP more than giving them to me...I like the banner that gives fearless but I also like slaanesh to give the fnp and initiative bonus =/ The best and worst thing are the "here's 34 million options try em all!" With my grey knights it was 1 of 3 builds now with these guys it's almost like "Play what you want and enjoy it and you still might win." I like oblits and I like forgefiends. I like noise marines as well. I just dunno numbers or marks or icons it's all so crazy and fun!

I wasn't talking about specialist troops. Just take some regular CSM and nurgle or slaanesh mark them. Those are good investments. Cultists with the same marks are also quite good. We also can bring Chaos Spawn, which are one of the best distraction units available when given MoN. Lots of wounds, potentially tons of attacks that really pour the pain on with a lucky roll. Even the bad rolls are still good for these guys, though. I've not had anyone hesitate to fire at them as they run across the field, and you can make them for rather cheap with some green stuff and creativity. Just gotta buy the bases. The kit is high priced and you only get two bodies, but you'll have TONS of leftover bits with which to make more spawn or possessed or whatever. Nurgle bikers are pure cheese, but they work great. CSM termies and land raiders are overrated, IMO. Rhinos are your best friend for getting your marines into position. Dump em and back the rhino off. Don't forget the dirge caster can also prevent overwatch, so they work great for dumping off melee units like berzerkers. My best tip is to take your boxes of marines, just put a dot of paint on each base to identify which squad is which, and run them unpainted or just primed a few games with someone willing to let you try things out. Just try out each mark and potentially each banner as well. Chaos has lots of ways to play, you just have to find yours. And nothing is useless, despite what internets may say. Berzerkers, dreadnoughts, and defilers all have their place. The problem with the dreads and defilers is that people try to use them for only one role. A lot of stuff in the codex is flexible, don't think of them as only being good at one thing. You'll be amazed what some noise marines can do in close combat as well as at range. High initiative lets you run the show. It's just that the internet is best at polarizing opinions. Just be aware that we DO have some rules we HAVE to play by. Challenges and occassional bad gift rolls happen. My nurgle marked aspiring champion with powerfist has done some stuff that just bonkers. If they can't take him out in their swing, he's gonna ruin their day. Not bad for a cheap champion. Chaos is chaotic, have a backup plan or love the random.

 Gharron wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
"overpriced" is a word we need to take out and SHOOT dead. But I digress. Did you read the slaaaneshi article I wrote? If not, you should.

Ultimately an army DOES REAL damage from select places. Those are the things most valuable to you. Protecting them is a priority. So whether throuh reserves, infiltrating or just patience and hiding, you should be able to cut off threats to tyourt true hammers and they're all expendable as blockers so you dont have to get fancy.

I've been looking at 2 heldrakes with 7 bikers and a khorne lord on juggernaut. 2 units of noise marines a blob of CSM termis some pie plates I'm still not sure on rhinos? I just feel like they're going to end up wasting VP more than giving them to me...I like the banner that gives fearless but I also like slaanesh to give the fnp and initiative bonus =/ The best and worst thing are the "here's 34 million options try em all!" With my grey knights it was 1 of 3 builds now with these guys it's almost like "Play what you want and enjoy it and you still might win." I like oblits and I like forgefiends. I like noise marines as well. I just dunno numbers or marks or icons it's all so crazy and fun!

2 Heldrakes is generally considered a very competitive component to a list, so if you go that route, i am sure you will be rewarded.
Rhinos are far more valuable than they seem. The mobility is very important because of the Flat out movement possibility. A roun 1 rush of two or three rhinos can really put you into excellent denial position.

The thing to recall is that althouh the first rhino will be a priority because the enemy wants first blood, the second and third will probably not be. What with Predators, vindicators, Helbrutes and other nasties littering the field of battle and in sore need of DEATH, it is hard for the enemy to justify going after lowly rhinos before these other threeats are handled, so often it is just one rhino that gets a fair amount of sattention before the enemy looks to other targets. and as rouns go on, itbecomes pogresively harder to shoot at them.

That isn't to say they wont get shot. But what I am saying is, you lose little when they die. if its a KP mission, theres only ONE of 6 missions that concerns itself with Rhino kills and in that mission, you can always reserve them if you aren't certain.

Food for thought.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Gharron wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
"overpriced" is a word we need to take out and SHOOT dead. But I digress. Did you read the slaaaneshi article I wrote? If not, you should.

Ultimately an army DOES REAL damage from select places. Those are the things most valuable to you. Protecting them is a priority. So whether throuh reserves, infiltrating or just patience and hiding, you should be able to cut off threats to tyourt true hammers and they're all expendable as blockers so you dont have to get fancy.

I've been looking at 2 heldrakes with 7 bikers and a khorne lord on juggernaut. 2 units of noise marines a blob of CSM termis some pie plates I'm still not sure on rhinos? I just feel like they're going to end up wasting VP more than giving them to me...I like the banner that gives fearless but I also like slaanesh to give the fnp and initiative bonus =/ The best and worst thing are the "here's 34 million options try em all!" With my grey knights it was 1 of 3 builds now with these guys it's almost like "Play what you want and enjoy it and you still might win." I like oblits and I like forgefiends. I like noise marines as well. I just dunno numbers or marks or icons it's all so crazy and fun!

2 Heldrakes is generally considered a very competitive component to a list, so if you go that route, i am sure you will be rewarded.
Rhinos are far more valuable than they seem. The mobility is very important because of the Flat out movement possibility. A roun 1 rush of two or three rhinos can really put you into excellent denial position.

The thing to recall is that althouh the first rhino will be a priority because the enemy wants first blood, the second and third will probably not be. What with Predators, vindicators, Helbrutes and other nasties littering the field of battle and in sore need of DEATH, it is hard for the enemy to justify going after lowly rhinos before these other threeats are handled, so often it is just one rhino that gets a fair amount of sattention before the enemy looks to other targets. and as rouns go on, itbecomes pogresively harder to shoot at them.

That isn't to say they wont get shot. But what I am saying is, you lose little when they die. if its a KP mission, theres only ONE of 6 missions that concerns itself with Rhino kills and in that mission, you can always reserve them if you aren't certain.

Food for thought.

Then that makes berserkers seem a bit more...potent? I could have them as mid field blockers with my big guns shall I say, never tiring
It opens up a lot of fast response but giving the first VP just always seems sketchy lol but with all the big toys I have they're going to end up shooting all of my smaller units first and for armies like deathwing I wanna tarpit them and keep blasting at. S10 templates are hard to be mad about...hmm, and they do get smoke launchers with a flat out....I could also put noise marines in it and use it as a mobile gunblind...ugh! So many choices!

Well, I've seen an army with 3 Helldrakes and 3 Maulerfiends doing well in an RTT, only loosing vs. Necrons.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I've seen an army with 3 Helldrakes and 3 Maulerfiends doing well in an RTT, only loosing vs. Necrons.

See, that's what I'm wondering lol I want an all comers list. But, everything is so situational and my meta is going to end up with a bunch of tau and necrons. I only know to melee them out and hope your shooting can clean up. I'm looking things over and I think fast attack is going to carry the codex I just don't really know what I want. I bought a demon prince a termi lord the chaos half of dark vengeance and a set of chaos space marines. So, I don't really know where to go now D=

 Gharron wrote:

Then that makes berserkers seem a bit more...potent? I could have them as mid field blockers with my big guns shall I say, never tiring
It opens up a lot of fast response but giving the first VP just always seems sketchy lol but with all the big toys I have they're going to end up shooting all of my smaller units first and for armies like deathwing I wanna tarpit them and keep blasting at. S10 templates are hard to be mad about...hmm, and they do get smoke launchers with a flat out....I could also put noise marines in it and use it as a mobile gunblind...ugh! So many choices!

Cant flat out with smoke Launchers. One or the other.

beserkers arent very good, CSM (the basic marines) themselves again not great.

Noise Marines and Plague Marines are FANTASTIC.... if you want cheap throw away bodyguards get cultists.... havoks with AC on and ADL with quad gun.

remember noise marines ignore cover.... thats night fighting ignored, no saves for intervening models, so you can put 20 cultist between the enemy and them and blast away and you get 2 blast masters in a 10 man squad.

Plague Marines - 2 special weapons per 5 man squad. also have FNP

Chaos Lord is the most customizable unit you can ever want.

Helldrakes are amazing - but not a necessity.

Despite what the internet may say, Chaos is a varied codex with tons of options.

Nurgle is extremely good. High toughness, FNP on your Plague Marines, lots of plasma. But all the other cults do offer something interesting. MoK gives you Rage and Counter Attack, MoS gives you higher initiative and access to a FNP banner, MoT gives you a piddly 6+ invul (or better if your unit already had an invul). It's all nice...maybe not the MoT if you didn't already have an invul.

For me, I choose to get as many bodies on the field as possible. I try for cheap and cheerful. Large 20 man CSM blobs and Huron/Lord, usually with an extra CCW. Lord keeps em fearless and they have a lot of attacks on the charge. That and they still can offer supporting fire as they move up-field. This isn't the only way to run things. You can go Slaanesh Noise Marines and have some interesting cover ignoring options.

Bezerkers and Thousand Sons are the "losers" of the codex in terms of cult troops. MoK CSM with a Icon of Wrath (Reroll charge distance) are about the same in cost as an equal size amount of bezerkers. Thousand Sons also suffer from being too expensive and having too much of a niche roll. But still, you can roll with those cults and expect to do well if you're competent. You just can't spam them like Plagues, Noise Marines, or basic CSM.

Mutilators, Warp Talons, and Possessed CSM don't see a lot of love because they bring a lot less power-per-point. Expensive, hard or dangerous to maneuver...the first two will want to be in assault and generally rely on deep strike to get the most bang for your buck. You can make them work, but it requires you build a list with far more supporting elements.

Helldrakes are Helldrakes. They're very powerful and bring a lot of firepower to an already diverse codex.

Chaos Terminators are the tits, for lack of a better word. They're very good for the points and they can all take combi-weapons. Free power weapon of your choice, so feel free to mix it up in a 5 man squad.

Heavy support is pretty normal. The out and out winners are probably the Chaos Havocs. Plop them in cover and point them at the target, they do work same as any devastator squad. Vindicators, Predators, and Landraiders are all pretty much the same as their Codex Space Marines counterparts. The main difference being demonic possession as a possible upgrade, and that the Landraider is generally seen as too expensive with too few options.

Maulerfiends and Forgefiends are both incredibly fun to run. One offers you an extremely fast melee beatstick that eats up fortifications and tanks while the other offers a feth-ton of long range dakka. Both have the ability to regen hullpoints lost and a 5+ invul. Both useful in their own right.

TLDR: Chaos has a ton of viable options, pick your poison and go for it with gusto.

The codex is pretty much Codex: Nurgle

Slaanesh comes in a second place, but it still doesn't compare generally.

Tzeentch is the worst in the book.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The codex is pretty much Codex: Nurgle

Slaanesh comes in a second place, but it still doesn't compare generally.

Tzeentch is the worst in the book.

tzeentch demon prince begs to differ

As do other observations!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The codex is pretty much Codex: Nurgle

Slaanesh comes in a second place, but it still doesn't compare generally.

Tzeentch is the worst in the book.

The problem I run into, I'm not a huge nurgle fan. I have a friend running a mini nurgle list with maybe a slight mix of khorne in it. I'm painting my army to be iron warriors (my favorite legion by far) I thought about heldrakes CSM troops forgefiends a unit of bikers noise marines with slaanesh lord and some term is....but I dunno how that list sounds with the competitive meta. I like the idea of Huron and all of the cool options he has but I also really like the look of Lucius the eternal...and then I see a demon prince with wings and a black mace. I know I'll end up gettingmax sizes of every unit and then move to demons for allies but I think a huge dakka list could really work I just don't see the melee potential for marines or possessed or for that matter any of the all melee units in the codex. I apologize for the grammar and spelling my phone isnt playing nice.

Heldrakes are obviously a great unit but it will be interesting to see just how many people ally with Tau for AAA.

You mentioned a demon prince with wings, just be wary of the fact that flying MC are grounded when hit by anything, even weapons that have no possibility of wounding them.

Is there a blog that everyone respects for chaos? I've got some models now but I want the most competitive weapons on them I can. I just need to figure out everyone's purpose in the army. :/

I dont know about everyone but you can start with mine, since I so recently did that series on Chaos Cults.

feel free to scope it out. Its called 40KUnorthodoxy

 Jancoran wrote:
I dont know about everyone but you can start with mine, since I so recently did that series on Chaos Cults.

feel free to scope it out. Its called 40KUnorthodoxy

I know for my blood angels I could go to jawaballs and read his blog. With these guys I'm afraid to kit anything out without knowing what I'm getting into lol

JWhex wrote:
Heldrakes are obviously a great unit but it will be interesting to see just how many people ally with Tau for AAA.

You mentioned a demon prince with wings, just be wary of the fact that flying MC are grounded when hit by anything, even weapons that have no possibility of wounding them.

Tzeentch DP gets 3+/5++ with re roll on 1's, grounded needs them to hit on 6's then you need to roll a 1 or 2.... it happens just, not with every hit (66% chance to pass the test) also its not rolled ONCE per unit that hits it.. not once per hit it takes