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Although i don't believe there are pictures/ illustrations of any, a Horus Heresy era lodge coin might be more appropriate than a challenge coin. Although i like the idea, and militarily it works, i just don't think it fits the gaming community unless they were used for a specific game function or the coins had become their own subculture (with coins readily available) within the entire 40k gaming culture (kind of like a lodge coin system).

 blagmasterg wrote:
If you look at GW's list of protected phrases, it includes:

"...the Warhammer 40,000 device, the Double Headed/Imperial Eagle device and all associated products, marks, logos, places, names, creatures, races and race insignia/devices/logos/symbols, factions, vehicles, locations, weapons, units, characters, illustrations and images .."

Which would cover all of the armies that he has listed by name for starters. As well as 'Imperium' and definitely 'Adeptus Astartes'.

Note that these are the things GW CLAIMS, and we all know GW has a habit of claiming various legal rights that they don't actually have.

Legaly the guy can do this if he didnt or doesnt mention GW or 40k as space wolfs and dark angels and so have been in films programs books before gw even had any idea.

Thats like saying GW invented orks they didnt and they can claim all they want but theywill be laughted out of court and any picture or image on the coin as long as it is altered slightly so that its not an exact copy of any drawing by gw is also safe

But who the hell wants to buy these stupid coins any way every stupid idea should not be put on kick start

 edweird wrote:
If done at cost plus shipping, for personal use is not resale... using kick starter as a means to perform a group buy. I see no issues on this. You may personally reuse anyone's IP as long as you do not resell. Its all part of the DMCA kids.

As for challenge coins, being in the military for the last 16 years I have amassed quite a collection and its odd I have not thoughtto bring the idea to 40k for the gaming club.

Also generally speaking... coins bought are worthless, coins gifted are coveted. So we tend to make custom coins and regift them in appreciation for troops that perform with excellence.

Please don't spread ignorance. IP is protected even against personal use. Furthermore, this is trademark issue, not copyright.

And no, you cannot use anyone's IP as long as you don't sell it. It is theirs to do with as they please, in nearly every respect.

 pretre wrote:
I think Challenge Coins are a thing. Hmm Wiki:

A challenge coin is a small coin or medallion (usually military), bearing an organization’s insignia or emblem and carried by the organization’s members. Traditionally, they are given to prove membership when challenged and to enhance morale. In addition, they are also collected by service members. In practice, challenge coins are normally presented by unit commanders in recognition of special achievement by a member of the unit. They are also exchanged in recognition of visits to an organization.[1]

Being a military guy I can vouch that coins are pretty popular. For a game... I don't get it...

 edweird wrote:
If done at cost plus shipping, for personal use is not resale... using kick starter as a means to perform a group buy. I see no issues on this. You may personally reuse anyone's IP as long as you do not resell. Its all part of the DMCA kids.

Can you quote the specific section of the DMCA that says that?

nkelsch wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think Challenge Coins are a thing. Hmm Wiki:

A challenge coin is a small coin or medallion (usually military), bearing an organization’s insignia or emblem and carried by the organization’s members. Traditionally, they are given to prove membership when challenged and to enhance morale. In addition, they are also collected by service members. In practice, challenge coins are normally presented by unit commanders in recognition of special achievement by a member of the unit. They are also exchanged in recognition of visits to an organization.[1]

They are in fact a "thing". Ask any military member, they can tell you about them and why you ALWAYS have one on you.

Do any military members who are aware of 'challenge coins' or participate in them see this as an appealing thing for wargaming? If everyone who wargamed had them because we had a coinflip mechanic sothere were reasons for unique coins it could be a neat concept.

I wouldn't mind getting a deffskull ork one if there was an option and this KS survives.

No.

The world at large tends to frown on what we use them for.

Military members don't use these coins for tossing.... lol

This guy should have just up and did the KS project for the gift of air from his lungs.

Counting down to when this gets stomped into the dirt by a power armoured boot.......

 pretre wrote:
Hooo boy.

Risks and challenges

Producing the coins is not an issue. I have done this many times before.

Even though I am familiar with copyright and trademark law and I am on firm legal ground, my only concern is that Games Workshop tries to cause an issue. Hopefully, they realize that I have done my research and I only want to enhance the Warhammer 40K experience and that I respect their company. A successful project can encourage more people to get involved in Warhammer. This is good for everyone. However, not a single copyright image or trademarked name was used on any of the coins. Basically, there should not be any issue.

Haha right, this has put an image in my head of someone trying to negotiate with a face hugger egg as it starts to open up.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 edweird wrote:
If done at cost plus shipping, for personal use is not resale... using kick starter as a means to perform a group buy. I see no issues on this. You may personally reuse anyone's IP as long as you do not resell. Its all part of the DMCA kids.

Can you quote the specific section of the DMCA that says that?

It's uh, in the part with the words, according to my GED in Law.

Normally I loathe when the IPquisition steps in and ruins a thread because someone recast an arm, but in this case it's well and truly deserved. They are marketing a product as a "Warhammer 40K this thing", which is, to a moron, clearly infringing. Moreover, they're doing it for profit, which while not making it any more infringing, is certainly more worthy of actually dropping the hammer, IMO.

Also, that clip art ranges from mediocre to awful.

 pretre wrote:
I think Challenge Coins are a thing. Hmm Wiki:

A challenge coin is a small coin or medallion (usually military), bearing an organization’s insignia or emblem and carried by the organization’s members. Traditionally, they are given to prove membership when challenged and to enhance morale. In addition, they are also collected by service members. In practice, challenge coins are normally presented by unit commanders in recognition of special achievement by a member of the unit. They are also exchanged in recognition of visits to an organization.[1]

Yup. Its pretty much a military service insider deal. I know several people who have served within the last few years, they all know about them, a couple have/had them.

Seriously? Is this for real. It's a jokestarter right?

I'd happily believe this was a law student who's become aware of some weak marks from the CHS case and is provoking GW into proving it in court. So it's entirely possible they've realised that they can get away with it, but then it's entirely possible they'll just be shot down because they got it wrong.

Worth pointing out - the "not for profit" argument DOES hold sway over infringement here in the UK, as you are allowed to modify media you own physically for personal use (such as remixes, music videos or photoshop loonery), along with works of satire, and a few other defined categories that escape me right now.
That being here in the UK... you know... where GW themselves are, I'm not sure that would apply to anything conceived outside the UK.

However, this guy's *clearly* asking for it. Not just as it's for profit and legally about as stable as a marshmallow gantry, but because the one community that could appreciate this - those with a military background - will likely see this as a callous attempt at a cash-in.

 doktor_g wrote:
Seriously? Is this for real. It's a jokestarter right?

It's a kick-in-the-nuts-starter.
Weird it is still up.

 Platuan4th wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Do any military members who are aware of 'challenge coins' or participate in them see this as an appealing thing for wargaming?

Every single member of my last gaming group(purely made of military, spouses, or former military) had one. It's not something you really choose to not participate in(I guess if you never spend any time with your unit/squadron/etc.), at least from what I understand/my wife has explained it. It can get expensive if you don't participate.

In the Army we have them but I've never met another soldier that cares too much about them. For the things that the Air Force typically uses them for, you would most likely be told to shut up in the Army* haha. Not speaking bad about the Air Force but coins in the Army are just coins. Sure they can be hard to get but they count for nothing in your career so why bother with them lol.

As a member for the military I would honestly think they would be cool if GW gave them out at events.Or maybe something that you could get at military sponsored gaming events. But not something you just buy. Sort of defeats the purpose.

Coins are nifty to earn and have on your desk, thats about it. the whole coin challenge thing gets old after a while. you will never win with one of these. Our squadron coin was a dime... Air force cares too much for coins from the army. Spoken from experience.

How is this thing still up?

Crap designs using someone else's trademark? Yeow. Gonna be painful...

The reason they are so popular in the military community is because you get them from high ranking members of said military. I have a coin from the Assistant Commidant of the Marine Corps (4 Star General), Commander of US Forces Central Asia (3 Star), Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps (I drove him around for two days), a 2 Star in the Air Force, a Col. that I knew, and a Master Sergeant who is a good friend of mine. Thats why we love these coins. I also get the coins of units I served in and ships I've served aboard.

Why anyone would want to drop their money on some crappy coins made for a tabletop game I have no idea. But it seems they are missing the whole point. I read somewhere that two guys just got out of the service and made an agreement with NASCAR to make challenge coins for each driver. The driver would then pass them on to fans making them an amazing collector's item. I have no interest in NASCAR but it seemed like a great idea. Just going online to buy a coin that anyone can buy that isn't limited edition seems like a complete waste. Maybe if Matt Ward or one of the other writers had them and gave them out to fans it would be interesting. Most of the charm of the challenge coin is from the memories of getting them.

I still remember standing there in my dress blues after being in the honor guard of a navy change of command and meeting the Assistant Commidant of the Marine Corps. I asked him for his coin and got it and I was "coin hunting" the rest of my service. I've never carried one around to challenge anyone and I've never seen it done. They are just suveniors, but ones that I enjoyed collecting.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Crap designs using someone else's trademark? Yeow. Gonna be painful...

Yup, Napoleon's gonna be pissed when he sees someone making a coin with "Imperial Guard" on it

I had coins from a Warrant, a 1 Star, a couple of Drill Sgt. coins, and a few others I don't remember.

And then they all got stolen. So I don't have any military coins anymore but I have my FBI, NSA, Secret Service coins.

I'd actually back this (for the novelty) if I thought it wasn't going to get nuked into the ground.

 judgedoug wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Crap designs using someone else's trademark? Yeow. Gonna be painful...

Yup, Napoleon's gonna be pissed when he sees someone making a coin with "Imperial Guard" on it

I believe "Adeptus Astartes" is the trademark that sticks out the most.

Regardless, terrible idea is terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like this exact quote from his KS:

In simple terms, Games Workshop has trademarked the name Warhammer 40,000

I'm like 100% sure that GW's trademark of the name "Warhammer 40,000" applies here as it's collectibles which is one of their markets.

And yet the very name of the KS campaign is "Warhammer 40K Limited Edition Challenge Coins".

The title itself creates brand confusion, regardless of the tiny disclaimer saying he's not GW.

 Davespil wrote:
The reason they are so popular in the military community is because you get them from high ranking members of said military. I have a coin from the Assistant Commidant of the Marine Corps (4 Star General), Commander of US Forces Central Asia (3 Star), Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps (I drove him around for two days), a 2 Star in the Air Force, a Col. that I knew, and a Master Sergeant who is a good friend of mine. Thats why we love these coins. I also get the coins of units I served in and ships I've served aboard.

Why anyone would want to drop their money on some crappy coins made for a tabletop game I have no idea. But it seems they are missing the whole point. I read somewhere that two guys just got out of the service and made an agreement with NASCAR to make challenge coins for each driver. The driver would then pass them on to fans making them an amazing collector's item. I have no interest in NASCAR but it seemed like a great idea. Just going online to buy a coin that anyone can buy that isn't limited edition seems like a complete waste. Maybe if Matt Ward or one of the other writers had them and gave them out to fans it would be interesting. Most of the charm of the challenge coin is from the memories of getting them.

I still remember standing there in my dress blues after being in the honor guard of a navy change of command and meeting the Assistant Commidant of the Marine Corps. I asked him for his coin and got it and I was "coin hunting" the rest of my service. I've never carried one around to challenge anyone and I've never seen it done. They are just suveniors, but ones that I enjoyed collecting.

I concur, from the Army perspective.

My friends and I welcomed the new guy to the unit by challenging.

We never actually made him pay, but some of the looks we got in response were hilarious. Except the one time the new guy threw out his 3 star coin.

rigeld2 wrote:
My friends and I welcomed the new guy to the unit by challenging.

We never actually made him pay, but some of the looks we got in response were hilarious. Except the one time the new guy threw out his 3 star coin.

Never actually participated in the challenging practice, I heard everyone has to buy you a beer. Is that true?

 Davespil wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My friends and I welcomed the new guy to the unit by challenging.

We never actually made him pay, but some of the looks we got in response were hilarious. Except the one time the new guy threw out his 3 star coin.

Never actually participated in the challenging practice, I heard everyone has to buy you a beer. Is that true?

We always did it that the lowest ranking coin buys the round (or night, depending on how long we were staying).
Normally the new guys would come in without a coin and therefore losing - the prospect of a $5-600 bar tab was daunting to many of them
But like I said, we never actually made them pay it so it was more for fun. Every once in a long while we'd coin check each other if we were too lazy to go get a beer for ourselves.

Lawsuit in 3...2...1...

rigeld2 wrote:

 Davespil wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
My friends and I welcomed the new guy to the unit by challenging.

We never actually made him pay, but some of the looks we got in response were hilarious. Except the one time the new guy threw out his 3 star coin.

Never actually participated in the challenging practice, I heard everyone has to buy you a beer. Is that true?

We always did it that the lowest ranking coin buys the round (or night, depending on how long we were staying).
Normally the new guys would come in without a coin and therefore losing - the prospect of a $5-600 bar tab was daunting to many of them
But like I said, we never actually made them pay it so it was more for fun. Every once in a long while we'd coin check each other if we were too lazy to go get a beer for ourselves.

Yup. It used to be a bigger deal in the Navy (we're getting away from the "drunken sailor" image...), but it's a tradition that's sadly fading. It's a bigger deal in the Chief's Mess (for non-Navy types, they're our senior NCO's) and amongst the officer corps, but most junior enlisted could care less.

I know many Chiefs that will carry around one of their higher-ranking coins while on liberty or meeting up as a Mess just for the possibility of "challenging," but I don't know a single one that would purchase something like this. I myself have several coins (my two favorite being a French EOD coin I obtained while in Cherbourg and my Assistant Secretary of the Navy coin that I was given during a breakfast with him, I can't wait to lay that one down!), and I certainly would not purchase one of these. The only coins I (and most others I know) purchase are from my own command, to hand out to others. IP issues aside, I don't see much value in this...

Hey Bart, check it out, I got a 40k pog. Remember Pogs? Well, they're back, in 40k form!