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With their association to the greater-good, are there any instances of Tau being ruthless?

In the Cities of Death book they talk about the Tau wiping every human (including civilians) off of the world of Polia since the Voyastrians turned down a chance to surrender and instead launched a suicide attack.

But at least the Tau gave them a chance to surrender...

 Sylhfer wrote:
With their association to the greater-good, are there any instances of Tau being ruthless?

1.) With the new Codex, there is no more absolute control by ethereals. So there is more room for individual "misbehavior" not sanctioned by ethereals, without making all Tau good or evil.
2.) Tau have other moral views than standard humans. What may be in the interest of all (from Tau perspective), may be ruthless for others.
3.) Farsight was described as massacring Orcs, then leaving the Empire. The incident in "Cities of Death" was done by his pupil Brightsword, who was sacked immediately after committing a massacre among humans. Not sure he is mentioned in the new Codex.
4.) Keep in mind that many Tau haters just invent stuff and present it as official background, so always double check such statements. You know, stuff like "Tau are all damn commies sterilizing every human they meet".

 Kroothawk wrote:
With the new Codex, there is no more absolute control by ethereals.

Was it ever absolute?

The new codex does indicate that foes who can never be reasoned with (ie Orks and Tyranids) are dealt with rather ruthlessly.

Also from the new codex:

There is an incident in which an Eldar Exodite colony is destroyed due to a case of mistaken identity (thought they were the Eldar Pirates that had been raiding them).

Some species, such as the Hrud, are forcibly expelled from Tau space, though not necessarily automatically killed (like the Orks).

Brightsword still massacres humans on Nimbosa.

Still, as a general rule the Tau are always willing to negotiate over fight, accept surrender over annihilating an opponent and treat the populations of conquered worlds with respect and generosity.

The greater good implies, if being utterly ruthless for any reason would serve the greater good, then they would do so.

 Kroothawk wrote:
The incident in "Cities of Death" was done by his pupil Brightsword, who was sacked immediately after committing a massacre among humans. Not sure he is mentioned in the new Codex.

It is indeed! Page 29 - it's in the "notable battles timeline" section.

All the time. "The Greater Good" is really just "what's best for the Tau", in the end.

 Kroothawk wrote:

4.) Keep in mind that many Tau haters just invent stuff and present it as official background, so always double check such statements. You know, stuff like "Tau are all damn commies sterilizing every human they meet".

You can be sure that I never said that. I simply said that the Tau do sterilize people. Tau fans were not happy.

 Melissia wrote:
All the time. "The Greater Good" is really just "what's best for the Tau", in the end.

Tho its very Tau centered, they do respect all of their allies, such as the Vespid and the Kroot among the best known.
As soon as you are on the Taus side you are basically a "lesser Tau" in their eyes.

Dracoknight wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
All the time. "The Greater Good" is really just "what's best for the Tau", in the end.

Tho its very Tau centered, they do respect all of their allies, such as the Vespid and the Kroot among the best known.
As soon as you are on the Taus side you are basically a "lesser Tau" in their eyes.

The Tau "respect" their allies in the same way that the Imperium "respects" its protectorate xeno species like the Jokaero-- only so long as they're servile and useful.

The Tau do not much like the Kroot for their "barbaric" nature, for example, and in return, the Kroot do not trust the Tau very far either, hiding valuable knowledge and technology from them.

 Melissia wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
All the time. "The Greater Good" is really just "what's best for the Tau", in the end.

Tho its very Tau centered, they do respect all of their allies, such as the Vespid and the Kroot among the best known.
As soon as you are on the Taus side you are basically a "lesser Tau" in their eyes.

The Tau "respect" their allies in the same way that the Imperium "respects" its protectorate xeno species like the Jokaero-- only so long as they're servile and useful.

The Tau do not much like the Kroot for their "barbaric" nature, for example, and in return, the Kroot do not trust the Tau very far either, hiding valuable knowledge and technology from them.

Well, this is mostly correct...

The thing with Tau is that they will kick the ass of everyone not accepting the Greater Good. This includes other Tau. (Case in point: Farsight.)

So rather than being racist like everyone else, Tau are philosophical extremists.

 Kroothawk wrote:
[
4.) Keep in mind that many Tau haters just invent stuff and present it as official background, so always double check such statements. You know, stuff like "Tau are all damn commies sterilizing every human they meet".

Pretty much this. Tau are much better then any other faction and the only ones with any kind of morality, though they still aren't saints. Lots of fan-invented stuff goes around about them accepted as fact.

 Harriticus wrote:
Tau are [...] the only ones with any kind of morality,

Nothing more than worthless fan-wankery.

 Melissia wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Tau are [...] the only ones with any kind of morality,

Nothing more than worthless fan-wankery.

Compared to the other factions, pretty much... Look at Ultramarines forexample.

I think issuing your infantry weapons that you know will poison them is pretty dang ruthless (Pathfinder Ion Rifles, per the new codex). I was kind of surprised by that since it seemed like something more in line with IG practices. It would make more sense if they specified that Pathfinder squads had the option of volunteering to sacrifice themselves, but the codex makes it sound like the Pathfinders don't know the dangers and their deaths are considered acceptable collateral.

The phrasing in the WD interview implies that the Tau using things like Nova Engines and Ion Weapons are aware of the risks and voluntarily take them on in service to the greater good.

Think of them more like Kamikaze pilots than uninformed dupes.

That's good, it seemed out of character. Encouraging suicide tactics does still qualify as ruthless, though, even if you use volunteers.

Dracoknight wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Tau are [...] the only ones with any kind of morality,

Nothing more than worthless fan-wankery.

Compared to the other factions, pretty much... Look at Ultramarines forexample.

Ultramarines have shown their own version of morality. Even Chaos has their own (heavily warped...) version of morality, for that matter.

Whether or not you AGREE with their morality doesn't mean that they don't have a code of morals.

Also, the Tau would be considered fascist at best in modern society, so don't act like they're somehow good compared to the modern world. They're an empire ruled by the Tau. The Tau are in every section of governance. The Tau do not accept others ruling over them.

You don't get a vote or say in Tau government, as a non-Tau.

They really aren't morally "better" than the Imperium. Just different.

Well the Tau (under the Ethereals) have always had a culture that encourages self sacrifice in order to serve the needs of the many.

To get a feel for this I would recommend watching the Jet Li movie Hero and notice how many people are willing to sacrifice time, possessions and even their lives for what they believe is best for the nation.

 Melissia wrote:
The Tau "respect" their allies in the same way that the Imperium "respects" its protectorate xeno species like the Jokaero-- only so long as they're servile and useful.

The Tau do not much like the Kroot for their "barbaric" nature, for example, and in return, the Kroot do not trust the Tau very far either, hiding valuable knowledge and technology from them.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:I simply said that the Tau do sterilize people. Tau fans were not happy.

Classic examples of Tau hater not caring to read the official background but inventing stuff to please their personal taste and presenting it as official undenyable truth.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Classic examples of Tau hater not caring to read the official background

Despite your stance on anything Tau-related, my statements about Kroot and Tau relations come from the official background. Perhaps you could try actually reading it.

But I suppose that would "ruin" them for you. So it's okay, label everyone who doesn't ignore half the lore a "hater".

The new codex also outright says that Tau are first among equals. Not sure where, but it's in their.

Melissia wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Tau are [...] the only ones with any kind of morality,

Nothing more than worthless fan-wankery.

Compared to the other factions, pretty much... Look at Ultramarines forexample.

Ultramarines have shown their own version of morality. Even Chaos has their own (heavily warped...) version of morality, for that matter.

Whether or not you AGREE with their morality doesn't mean that they don't have a code of morals.

Also, the Tau would be considered fascist at best in modern society, so don't act like they're somehow good compared to the modern world. They're an empire ruled by the Tau. The Tau are in every section of governance. The Tau do not accept others ruling over them.

You don't get a vote or say in Tau government, as a non-Tau.

They really aren't morally "better" than the Imperium. Just different.

Exactly.

Kroothawk wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:.

Classic examples of Tau hater not caring to read the official background but inventing stuff to please their personal taste and presenting it as official undenyable truth.

NO.

She didn't invent or add anything.

6th edition Codex Tau Empire, page 53 wrote:In the ongoing expansions, the Kroot are afforded virtually the same level of respect as are the Tau.

And you are the first to call kroot servile.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The Tau "respect" their allies in the same way that the Imperium "respects" its protectorate xeno species like the Jokaero-- only so long as they're servile and useful.

The Tau do not much like the Kroot for their "barbaric" nature, for example, and in return, the Kroot do not trust the Tau very far either, hiding valuable knowledge and technology from them.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:I simply said that the Tau do sterilize people. Tau fans were not happy.

Classic examples of Tau hater not caring to read the official background but inventing stuff to please their personal taste and presenting it as official undenyable truth.

Classic Tau fan ignoring everything they dislike cause it makes Tau not mary sue perfect and calls everyone Hater.

I did use official 40k fluff. Don't like it? Don't care.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
The new codex also outright says that Tau are first among equals. Not sure where, but it's in their.

Yes. According to the Tau Codex, which like all other Codexes is an idealized, propagandized history of the featured race. And typically, "first among equals" in real life means "definitely first, but I'll give lip service to the idea that the rest of you are equals."

Which is a perfect representation of the Tau Empire.

I would t call the Ethereals ruthless as manipulative in the extreme, just cause Farsight's didn't call home (aledgadly) they labeled him traitor. And even in the new codex explained how Aun'Va 'skilfully told' his betrayal and basically propagandised the gak out of how Farsight will eat Shadowsun's babies.. Ethereals sound cruel to the extreme, sadly to their own people aswell.