Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm thinking of using the Black knights as the outriders/ Final strike against the enemy. My idea is that they turnbo boost around the flank while the main army pushes up. They do sound perfect as the last blow to cripple an army.

Here are some numbers that may shed some light on the subject of Ravenwing vs. Deathwing:

In all analysis which follows, I assume the units are armed as follows:
Ravenwing: 5 man squad 2 Meltaguns (31 points per model)
Black Knights: 3 man squad 1 Grenade Launcher (42 points per model)
Deathwing Terminators: 5 man squad 1 Cyclone Launcher (49 points per model)

Note that I am not assuming the units are affected by the Banner of Devastation.

First, resilience per point. You should read these numbers as "Number of shots needed to kill 100 points of this model". For reference, a standard 2 Meltagun + Wolf Banner 10 man Grey Hunter squad clocks in at 54.5 Bolter shots per 100 points.

Ravenwing Biker:
43.5 Bolter
116.1 Lasgun
8.7 Plasma (BS4)
23.2 Autocannon (BS3)

Black Knight:
32.1 Bolter
85.7 Lasgun
8.6 Plasma
17.1 Autocannon

Deathwing Terminator:
36.7 Bolter
73.5 Lasgun
5.5 Plasma
29.4 Autocannon

So Ailaros is right that the Terminators are more durable against small arms than the Black Knights, but it isn't by a lot. Furthermore, if you go all TH/SS, the Bolter figures are very close, with only a 1 shot advantage for the Terminators.

Next, shooting offense. These numbers should be interpreted as "Points of target killed per 100 points of models' shooting". I assume each squad fires with their best weapons, so the Meltaguns, Cyclone launcher, etc. are averaged in. For the Grenade Launcher, I assume frag (with 2 hits on average) against GEQ, and Krak against MEQ and TEQ. Note that this is underestimating the shooting power of the Black Knights, as they will obviously be using Rad Grenades most of the time, but I can't really factor those in.

All targets are out of cover.

Ravenwing Bikers:
19.1 points of GEQ
20.6 points of MEQ
30.6 points of TEQ

Black Knights:
14.4 GEQ
42.3 MEQ
68.6 TEQ

Deathwing Terminators:
10.9 GEQ
10.8 MEQ
12.1 TEQ

Pretty clear wing for Ravenwing, unsurprisingly. The Banner will help the Deathwing vs. the Black Knights, but not the regular bikes.

Finally, CC offense per point. I assume all squads get the charge, and that all models are able to strike. I also assume all Bikers get a Hammer of Wrath hit.

Ravenwing Bikers:
16.7 GEQ
17.2 MEQ
21.5 TEQ

Black Knights:
24.7 GEQ
31.7 MEQ
45.0 TEQ

Deathwing Terminators:
16.3 GEQ
37.6 MEQ
62.6 TEQ

So, the Terminators are best against Power Armor and up, the Bikes better against GEQ. Having 4 attacks plus HoW really helps the Black Knights.

Once you mix in how crazy fast the Ravenwing is, they seem a lot better on paper. Obviously, the Dragon is the real problem. Tau maybe, but it seems like the way to beat Tau is to assault a flank, which should be a Ravenwing specialty.

It also seems like the Black Knights should be a force multiplier, not the main element of the force. The regular Bikers are obviously more resilient against everything, and also leverage that nasty Banner of Devastation. There does appear to be a great synergy between the two units, actually, as the combination of Rad Grenade + 4 Bolter shots per model will kill a lot of stuff.

Rad also plays with ID thresholds, which can be very useful.

The unit isn't that squishy when it comes to RPP, butt it's slightly squishy and draws a lot of agro from opponents with a good sense of target priority.

Dragons can be somewhat mitigated by keeping them near a power field gen for a 4+ invo, there is probably already one in the land raider holding the dev banner, but the dragon can couner the mitatigate with careful positioning to snipe the rad grenade launcher. it all comes down to who best positions their fast units.

Good points, but I don't think the PFG is a solution to the Helldrake. Each model needs to be within 3" of the Landraider to get the save. So what you gain from the 4++ you give back from bunching up.

thanks Mr. Eco for the in depth look. the points where a little wrong, but overall it was good! I think the black knights should have ran at least five for the simulation, to keep it even with the 5 bikes/ 5 termies.

the only problem would for me is that the knights need to get there to rad a unit and then take it down. Turbo-boosting would help, and i guess i should make liberal use of cover.

Should one squad of 6 be lead by a chaplain, too?

 Ailaros wrote:
The problem is that a 3+ armor save and a 5++ cover save aren't as good as a 2+ armor save and a 5++ invul save. You can spend more points to upgrade the ravenwing's durability, but then you could just spend more points on more terminators (or just buy storm shields).

Plus, there's the firepower deficit as well. Twin-linked bolters aren't as good as storm bolters. Chainswords and crow hammers aren't as good as power fists and thunderhammers. Termies also get cyclones and assault cannons, and they use them twin-linked on the turn they arrive, and can split fire, none of which is true for the bikes.

Then you add on those few little humiliating things, like crashing your bikes in difficult terrain, and being unable to reach objectives up in ruins.

Don't get me wrong, bike armies are pretty cool, but bikes, in the end, are really just a variation on assault marines. Fast, but not much killier, and not much more durable for being a fair bit more expensive.

The dark shroud is 80 points. Cheap as chips. I take two BK squads, dark shroud, and banner of fortitude command squad. Turbo boost 1st turn, and with that manoeuvrability you can choose spots that minimise incoming fire. Furthermore, the BKs can pick and choose what I want to kill turn 2. Bk’s resilience is the same as a terminator squad with an apothecary that turn. The FNP acts like an invulnerable save to everything apart from S10 and some other random bits and bobs, whilst S8 still kills FNP for termies. Turn 2 onwards BK’s can hide in combat and hit and run out. Bk’s kick out so much more firepower you cannot even compare the two. Storm bolters are better than TL bolters but they are not a patch on a melta guns which are carried by a lot of bikes.
Once terminator squads deep strike in they are slow and useless. It’s hard to get them in combat and they get picked apart particularly by manoeuvrable armies like RW. My RW spank terminator heavy armies all day every day.

edit: the best solution for the drake is FNP. T/L plasmas pluck them out the sky, once they've alpha struck.
I think your analysis of bike armies is true for the space marine codex. I have been using a bike army for 3 years and found it very hard to win. I’m not a good player but I’ve got a really good record with RW which has got to tell you something. RW armies kill things fast with dakka banner builds, banner of fortitude builds or even without a banner (heresy!) IMO RW are amongst the most powerful builds at the moment.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:


oh, that makes sense more. So to counter the squishy-ness of them to bolter fire, I should let them hang back to avoid getting shot at, then drive them like a spear tip into the enemy? and would outflankinghelp, or does that just cause more problems?

Pretty much man. They roll hard, but the killer is you A: must depend on 6's for rending, and B: you are VERY specialized. The BKs are a great finisher, and if you have luck, outflanking CAN be a killer. If you have luck. I rarely depend on it though, so be ready for those gambits to fail.
A RW army is grand and fun to run, but it IS a difficult list facing anything MEQ or DE. Their dang poison man, it ruins the 5 toughness. MEQ armies that KNOW you are RW tend to haul in HB and Melta, or (one of my favorite "douche" moves) run lots of Scout Snipers. LOL.... On the Fluff side though, man, I love RW, and I really enjoy playing against and with them. For a tourney winner though, dude, you really gotta go balanced in 6th. Overbalanced armies tend to overextend and get cut in half. The GL bikes WILL help a heck of a lot dude, and if possible, run a command squad with a banner to help out dude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and BTW Ailaros, do you even Skilled Rider?????? Or TL Plas Talon? The heck man, RW bikers laugh laugh LAUGH at Terrain (auto pass) and +1 Jink, PLUS BK shoot 2 S7 AP2 Relentless RapidFire LOL TERMARMOR shots each. They aren't the end all be all, but dude, they are seriously amazing. (oh, and hammer of wrath, etc etc. )

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
thanks Mr. Eco for the in depth look. the points where a little wrong, but overall it was good! I think the black knights should have ran at least five for the simulation, to keep it even with the 5 bikes/ 5 termies.

the only problem would for me is that the knights need to get there to rad a unit and then take it down. Turbo-boosting would help, and i guess i should make liberal use of cover.

Should one squad of 6 be lead by a chaplain, too?

To clarify, the numbers don't really depend much on squad size, except that squad size determines the average cost of upgrades. The points seem wrong because they are the average value for a model including the listed upgrades. So, the points for the Deathwing include the Cyclone launcher, etc.

oh okay. but the RW grenade launcher is free fyi


I think I need more than 3 odd games with them. they already did more than two vindicators though.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
oh okay. but the RW grenade launcher is free fyi

Correct. Black Knights are 42 points per model base.

Also, don't forget the Standard of Fortitude. Biker T5's laughing at most of the hits that actually wound because they FNP and reroll failed morale, fantastic.

I just can't agree with you guys, a 5+ FnP does not make any bike any less crunchy. Yeah you'll save 2 out of every 6 deaths, but those other 4 that you didn't make have gutted your squad and removed their ability to fight. You've also pinned your hopes to an 85 point banner that is screaming towards your opponent just asking to get sniped or exploded with a large weapon. Beyond that running a banner list limits your flexibility, even the FnP banner is only 12" radius which means anyone not part of the charge is getting no benefit. Pure RW isn't a TAC list, there are many hard counters to it. If you're playing friendlies then an RW list works, but flyers, blobs, and poison are easy counters as is anything fielding AV14 which the bikes struggle with.

andystache wrote:
I just can't agree with you guys, a 5+ FnP does not make any bike any less crunchy. Yeah you'll save 2 out of every 6 deaths, but those other 4 that you didn't make have gutted your squad and removed their ability to fight. You've also pinned your hopes to an 85 point banner that is screaming towards your opponent just asking to get sniped or exploded with a large weapon. Beyond that running a banner list limits your flexibility, even the FnP banner is only 12" radius which means anyone not part of the charge is getting no benefit. Pure RW isn't a TAC list, there are many hard counters to it. If you're playing friendlies then an RW list works, but flyers, blobs, and poison are easy counters as is anything fielding AV14 which the bikes struggle with.

How are blobs a hard counter? Seems like a nice place to hide in combat during your opponents turn before bailing out with hit and run.
Also with the amount of fast melta in most RW lists armor 14 seems less like a hard counter and more like inefficient points spent to me.

MrEconomics wrote:stuff

You calculated the durability of terminators without storm shields, and the durability of what you're shooting at assuming no cover (and once again, no storm shields)? Of course ravenwing is going to look good if you skew the assumptions against everything else. And, I'd note, the deathwing TRASHES the bikers in close combat. Being a tiny bit better against GEq isn't much of a consolation.

I'd also note that "shots to kill X points" while useful, is also a little misleading. It's missing the fact that you can cram a lot more points into a smaller footprint. The speed of the bikes does help with force concentration, but being able to achieve so much local points superiority in a single place with a single squad is an advantage that's being overlooked.

 Ailaros wrote:

MrEconomics wrote:stuff

You calculated the durability of terminators without storm shields, and the durability of what you're shooting at assuming no cover (and once again, no storm shields)? Of course ravenwing is going to look good if you skew the assumptions against everything else. And, I'd note, the deathwing TRASHES the bikers in close combat. Being a tiny bit better against GEq isn't much of a consolation.

I'd also note that "shots to kill X points" while useful, is also a little misleading. It's missing the fact that you can cram a lot more points into a smaller footprint. The speed of the bikes does help with force concentration, but being able to achieve so much local points superiority in a single place with a single squad is an advantage that's being overlooked.

I am happy to give you numbers assuming Storm Shields, which obviously only affects the Plasma numbers. And I seem to recall that you are constantly reminding people about focus fire in 6th edition, so one can't rely on getting cover saves any more. At any rate, cover is going to affect the GEQ numbers equally across the board. I will also re-run the MEQ killing numbers assuming 5++ cover, and for TEQ assuming Storm Shields.

RPP for Plasma:
Ravenwing Bikers 8.7, Black Knights 8.6, Deathwing 10.0.

Shooting Offense against MEQ:
Ravenwing Bikers 16.8 Black Knights 29.8 Deathwing 7.9

Shooting Offense against TEQ:
Ravenwing Bikers 21.0 Black Knights 37.2 Deathwing 11.0

It's still the case that the Ravenwing outshoots Deathwing, which should not be controversial.

When you add the Ranged and CC numbers together, you get 34 points of MEQ killed for Ravenwing, 61.5 points of MEQ for Black Knights, and 45 points for Deathwing. Against TEQ with Storm Shields, 42.5 for Ravenwing, 71.6 for Black Knights, and 67.8 for Deathwing.

I freely admit these figures are a bit misleading, as you would need brass balls to charge TEQ with the Black Knights unless the target squad was pretty depleted. Still, while the Deathwing can pummel the Ravenwing in CC, how are they going to catch them? Ravenwing can fight from 18"+ away easily. Also, 100 points of Deathwing are only killing 13.1 points of Ravenwing a turn from shooting. That works out to around 1 model per turn per squad. Local force superiority is great and all, but it isn't helpful if all your shooting simply can't put down the enemy.

this debate seems to be heating up. let me get my popcorn and soda

A unit with storm shields is gonna deep strike in and look menacing. If RW have enough firepower nearby they kill them, if not they drive away and foot slogging terminators play no further part in the battle. RW are a hard counter for terminator heavy armies and AV14 heavy armies. They suffer to anyone who can bring ignore cover AP3 (chaos, tau, some guard) but you should be hiding in combat from turn 2 onwards anyway with a lot of your army. You can also hide behind terrain almost anywhere on the board with turbo boost and scout move so you can limit the amount of fire power coming your way. Bikes agility and the abillity to premeasure ranges mean you should be able to influence what heavy weapons can shoot you. If the enemy cannot see you they cannot shoot you (with the exception of barrage weapons of course)

 Eldarain wrote:
How are blobs a hard counter? Seems like a nice place to hide in combat during your opponents turn before bailing out with hit and run.
Also with the amount of fast melta in most RW lists armor 14 seems less like a hard counter and more like inefficient points spent to me.

Well your average IG blob is going to survive the Talons and the attacks, then they're going to hit back and they're going to hit back for two turns. Marine armor is generally great, but a mob of 20-30 boys will make short work if you haven't whittled them down substantially. Even with fast melta you have to get there, against IG that means running through lots of guns, against Marines you're charging a Land Raider and if it's a DA Raider you're probably looking at a 4++ on it. The BKs suffer from the same problems that all small units do they can be overwhelmed by large numbers of small things. If you kill 10 out of 50 IG in one turn you've killed 20% of his unit, to inflict similar casualties against you he only needs to kill 2 bikes in a full strength squad for a 20% rate and by the numbers that's 6 wounds inflicted.

I firmly believe they have a place in every DA army, just not as the backbone. The BKs are really Elites choices with bikes and that's where they excel eliminating other Elite units.

EDIT:

 jamin484 wrote:
A unit with storm shields is gonna deep strike in and look menacing. If RW have enough firepower nearby they kill them, if not they drive away and foot slogging terminators play no further part in the battle. RW are a hard counter for terminator heavy armies and AV14 heavy armies. They suffer to anyone who can bring ignore cover AP3 (chaos, tau, some guard) but you should be hiding in combat from turn 2 onwards anyway with a lot of your army. You can also hide behind terrain almost anywhere on the board with turbo boost and scout move so you can limit the amount of fire power coming your way. Bikes agility and the abillity to premeasure ranges mean you should be able to influence what heavy weapons can shoot you. If the enemy cannot see you they cannot shoot you (with the exception of barrage weapons of course)

This comparison is of little value honestly, BKs are a fast moving, hard hitting, but ultimately fragile unit. DWKs are the stoutest Termies around and your opponent must deal with them or they will rampage through his lines. Premeasuring helps, but one bad charge roll and suddenly your bikes are stuck in front of the enemy guns. Yes the BKs can stay back and shoot, but if the DWKs are contesting an objective or sitting in your ADL you lose the option to just run away.

andystache wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
How are blobs a hard counter? Seems like a nice place to hide in combat during your opponents turn before bailing out with hit and run.
Also with the amount of fast melta in most RW lists armor 14 seems less like a hard counter and more like inefficient points spent to me.

Well your average IG blob is going to survive the Talons and the attacks, then they're going to hit back and they're going to hit back for two turns. Marine armor is generally great, but a mob of 20-30 boys will make short work if you haven't whittled them down substantially.

the boys will certainly do more in overwatch, but as for in combat I am not so sure. The boyz will have twice as many attacks, and will get hit on 4+ instead of 3+ and wounded on 4+ instead of 3+ but then they dont have as good an armor save. The boys still need 6s to wound followed by marine armor. Assuming 25 shoota boyz somehow dont get to overwatch. No nob or champion. 7.5 will die to the hammer of wrath and attacks of 6 Black Knights. 35 attacks back(assuming they can all get in base) 17.5 hit, 3 wound. 1 dead black knight. Next round another 3 boyz die, and the boyz kill another black knight, the knights hit and run having lost 1/3 their number. The boyz lost 40% their number. That is assuming that all the remaining boyz can get into base on the first round. More than likely they wont and you will only lose 1 black knight.

30 boyz with a nob are gonna do better. 20 boyz arent gonna do that well. Overwatch is what really kills it the other way(will kill another black knight), although I guess the Black knights also could soften up the boyz.

DA Raiders cannot get the 4++ easily any more. Have to be followed by a Techmarine on a bike with the PFG rather than the techmarine/HQ being in the LRC. It's still there but easier to dismantle.

 Blaggard wrote:
DA Raiders cannot get the 4++ easily any more. Have to be followed by a Techmarine on a bike with the PFG rather than the techmarine/HQ being in the LRC. It's still there but easier to dismantle.

Wrong thread, mate. This here is RW survival territory.

andystache wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
How are blobs a hard counter? Seems like a nice place to hide in combat during your opponents turn before bailing out with hit and run.
Also with the amount of fast melta in most RW lists armor 14 seems less like a hard counter and more like inefficient points spent to me.

Well your average IG blob is going to survive the Talons and the attacks, then they're going to hit back and they're going to hit back for two turns. Marine armor is generally great, but a mob of 20-30 boys will make short work if you haven't whittled them down substantially. Even with fast melta you have to get there, against IG that means running through lots of guns, against Marines you're charging a Land Raider and if it's a DA Raider you're probably looking at a 4++ on it. The BKs suffer from the same problems that all small units do they can be overwhelmed by large numbers of small things. If you kill 10 out of 50 IG in one turn you've killed 20% of his unit, to inflict similar casualties against you he only needs to kill 2 bikes in a full strength squad for a 20% rate and by the numbers that's 6 wounds inflicted.

I firmly believe they have a place in every DA army, just not as the backbone. The BKs are really Elites choices with bikes and that's where they excel eliminating other Elite units.

EDIT:

 jamin484 wrote:
A unit with storm shields is gonna deep strike in and look menacing. If RW have enough firepower nearby they kill them, if not they drive away and foot slogging terminators play no further part in the battle. RW are a hard counter for terminator heavy armies and AV14 heavy armies. They suffer to anyone who can bring ignore cover AP3 (chaos, tau, some guard) but you should be hiding in combat from turn 2 onwards anyway with a lot of your army. You can also hide behind terrain almost anywhere on the board with turbo boost and scout move so you can limit the amount of fire power coming your way. Bikes agility and the abillity to premeasure ranges mean you should be able to influence what heavy weapons can shoot you. If the enemy cannot see you they cannot shoot you (with the exception of barrage weapons of course)

This comparison is of little value honestly, BKs are a fast moving, hard hitting, but ultimately fragile unit. DWKs are the stoutest Termies around and your opponent must deal with them or they will rampage through his lines. Premeasuring helps, but one bad charge roll and suddenly your bikes are stuck in front of the enemy guns. Yes the BKs can stay back and shoot, but if the DWKs are contesting an objective or sitting in your ADL you lose the option to just run away.

Usually there is more than one objective, and the terminators will still get picked apart over time. Bike armies shouldn't use fixed positions so there will not be an ADL. The powerfield generator got nerfed heavily, in the new FAQ as it no longer works on the transport you're in. Most set ups RW will have MM AB in range first turn. Having an army made up entirely of bikes gives me the whole game to pick apart expensive terminators with massed plasma and melta fire. I'm not running away from terminators I'm killing them more slowly form a distance while taking almost no casualties in return. Most things that are good at killing bikes (vehicles monstrous creatures elite infantry) are also vulnerable to bikes.

Bikes with hit and run love blobs. With MSU you can draw the overwatch out before the valuable knights charge. It nice to stay in combat with a unit that cannot really hurt you like orcs, guard, necron warriors, tactical marines, DE etc. then bounce out, shoot again (being relentless) and charge.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
DA Raiders cannot get the 4++ easily any more. Have to be followed by a Techmarine on a bike with the PFG rather than the techmarine/HQ being in the LRC. It's still there but easier to dismantle.

Wrong thread, mate. This here is RW survival territory.

andystache mentioned it mate.
Regarding that, how about Deathwing knights with an attached techmarine on a bike without PFG. Another body with a but with a 2+ armour for 70 points.

 jamin484 wrote:

Usually there is more than one objective, and the terminators will still get picked apart over time. Bike armies shouldn't use fixed positions so there will not be an ADL. The powerfield generator got nerfed heavily, in the new FAQ as it no longer works on the transport you're in. Most set ups RW will have MM AB in range first turn. Having an army made up entirely of bikes gives me the whole game to pick apart expensive terminators with massed plasma and melta fire. I'm not running away from terminators I'm killing them more slowly form a distance while taking almost no casualties in return. Most things that are good at killing bikes (vehicles monstrous creatures elite infantry) are also vulnerable to bikes.

Bikes with hit and run love blobs. With MSU you can draw the overwatch out before the valuable knights charge. It nice to stay in combat with a unit that cannot really hurt you like orcs, guard, necron warriors, tactical marines, DE etc. then bounce out, shoot again (being relentless) and charge.

If you're having to draw off overwatch by sacrificing an RAS squad then obviously the Knights are crunchy. Running MSUs you're also in the territory of getting gutted by normal small arms fire. A pure RW list is very high risk/high reward in competitive play, one bad charge roll or set of armor saves and there's nothing to fall back on. Unless you have the Ravenwing Banner there is still a 1/3 chance that you're not going to get your H&R off. There are just a lot of factors working against the pure RW list. Again I love the BKs and can't see running DA without them, but to me they're like the "heavy weapon" in most FPS's, if you hit something with it that thing will go away, but if you miss then you're dead.

Blaggard - That was greatly appreciated I had not seen the new FAQ yet. Interesting stuff there. TH/SS/CML is a go, no TH/SS or LC on the DW Sgt, pure DWA army is no go, and now running an RW Command Squad may be better than running a BK squad. Upside - 2 pts/model less, five total with banner is viable attack unit. Downside - Capped at 5 so 1 GL and ummm they don't count as scoring in Scouring... any other downsides I'm missing here?

At my FLGS Ive have huge success using a mono RW list, to the point that people have started to refuse to play against it.
2000 Pts - Dark Angels Roster


Sammael on Sableclaw

Librarian with ML 2, bike and PFG

Command squad with apothacer, nade launcher and stnrd of Dev

6 man bike squad + attack bike with MM + Speedeer with typhoon and MM

6 man bike squad + attack bike with MM + Speedeer with typhoon and MM

6 man bike squad + attack bike with MM + Speedeer with typhoon and MM

6 man RW Black Knights with nade launcher

Darkshroud with AC

Nephilim with TL LC

The Nephilim is just there cause I love the model.

For tactics if I have 1st turn I scout up to the half way point then turn 1 i move up 12" and unload everything into anything that looks like a theat, most armies tend to crumple at this point due to the insane amount of shots it can put out.

If I have 2nd turn I use the scout move to redeploy for better cover and then I just do the same after taking 1 round of fire.

Each 6 man squad is capable of putting out 24 TL bolter shots out to 24" each turn and I have 6 diff sources of MM fire, 3 of which are also shooting 2 missiles a turn as well. Also if you arent playing Killpoints combat squading can drown your opponent in small cheap units that he has to target separetly.

RWBK's ain't scoring anyway and don't take up FOC. More shrouds or single unit MM speeders.

or you can take 6 knights and get 2 grenade launchers and rad/stasis things. or use rad if you miss the first shot.

RWCS cannot do that. Limited to 1 still.

Stasis anomaly is stackable meaning that multiple grenades is even more viable

No they don't. Both stasis and rad specify one or more grenades inflicts the -1, not -1 per grenade. Vast stasis replaces stasis specifically to prevent stacking