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SO how about WHFB and/or The Hobbit players out there? Anything GW did that was good for your game?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

And the caphias cain books are indeed very similar to the flashman books.

But why is that a bad thing? I'm an avid reader, I've enjoyed both the sharpe series and flashmans exploits, and I don't think it lessens the experience being aware of the former writers.

Dan Abnett actually is an excellent writer. I'm not a fan of most of the BL and I think Graham mcneil is fully a bad writer. I have tried to avoid him after working all the way through the pitiful ultramarines series and a storm of iron, but stick with Mr Abnetts work and I guarantee you would enjoy them.

Titanicus is also fething brilliant with not a space marine in sight, and both the ravenor and eisenhorn trilogies were very well received as well.

I don't think it's a bad thing in itself, but I do think it can't be counted as a good thing in the sense of "good things GW have done".

 Selym wrote:

Can't deny it, few sci-fi books/movies/tv series' can beat a well-written book set in the 40k universe

Helsreach anyone?

HAHAHAHA.

Haven't had that good a laugh in at least a week. Cheers for that.

GW is great for their army concepts and general fluff, but every time they try to flesh something out in more depth than is required for a Codex, they fall flat on their face. Best they've done, IMO is the Index Astartes series in White Dwarfs several years, and even that was hit-or-miss (admittedly that was probably due to personal bias on which Legions I did and did not like).

Models are quite nice, too, although lately some of the things they've come up with are a bit too cartooney for my tastes.

 gnoise wrote:
SO how about WHFB and/or The Hobbit players out there? Anything GW did that was good for your game?

They got Vampires right. Merciless, immortal, scheming bastards who think of humans as cattle.

None of this sparkling in the sun or having a soul bull gak.

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

Pre 1995 everything. Post 1995 a slow decent into madness.

I cant be bothered with the company anymore

 Necro wrote:
Pre 1995 everything. Post 1995 a slow decent into madness.

I cant be bothered with the company anymore

Mordheim came out post '95. Anything after then I'm inclined to just ignore.

Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

2nd was the best for me personally (I know a lot of peeps don't like that ed nut that was the best for me). I cant play 6th as they have ruined it with flyers.

I persevered with it up until 6th and now my money will go else where. I have had great times with the product but it isn't the same anymore.

The embargo really killed GW for me. I can afford the hobby easily, but why That said I have branched out to some great new games so I am happy

 Necro wrote:
I cant play 6th as they have ruined it with flyers.

Find like minded people and play without them? Out of everyone in my group, I'm the only one with a flyer, a Flyrant. And I generally try not to Swoop it. 6th edition without flyers is actually pretty awesome.

That's actually true. I play infrequently, these days, but when I do play it's with my buddy. Neither of us can really be arsed to buy new stuff, so neither of us actually has any fliers, and so far neither of us have had any major problems with 6th.
Although, he plays Dark Angels, who have just gotten a new Codex, so he might be tempted to get some new stuff. I'll see what happens.

BryllCream wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

BryllCream wrote:

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

You really are mainlining the cool aid at this point aren't you?

Thing is, if you simply added 'I think' or 'in my opinion' you would come across as much less of a fanboy, but as it is, you are confusing Your opinion for objective fact.

The 40k universe is definitely the best thing GW has ever done. I love the background and setting, I think it's great and entertaining. Personally, I love a lot of Black Library, especially Abnett and ADB.

I'm also a pretty big fan of the game and the rules. I know a lot of people have issues with it, and I certainly have a couple myself, but I still have a lot of fun with it. The models lately have been pretty hit-or-miss, and the prices are outrageous, but for the most part the game is fun to play.

 azreal13 wrote:

BryllCream wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

BryllCream wrote:

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

You really are mainlining the cool aid at this point aren't you?

Thing is, if you simply added 'I think' or 'in my opinion' you would come across as much less of a fanboy, but as it is, you are confusing Your opinion for objective fact.

To be fair it's quite clear this is his opinion - it's a message board. Adding IMO or I think is redundant: a bit like suggesting he needs to conform to your need for him appear to not like something as much as he quite clearly does.

Quite why feel the need to get a riled up and start tagging labels on people is beyond me.

Well we wouldn't be part of Bryll's "Butt Hurt Brigade" (whatever the feth that is) if we didn't assign labels...

 notprop wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

BryllCream wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

BryllCream wrote:

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

You really are mainlining the cool aid at this point aren't you?

Thing is, if you simply added 'I think' or 'in my opinion' you would come across as much less of a fanboy, but as it is, you are confusing Your opinion for objective fact.

To be fair it's quite clear this is his opinion - it's a message board. Adding IMO or I think is redundant: a bit like suggesting he needs to conform to your need for him appear to not like something as much as he quite clearly does.

Quite why feel the need to get a riled up and start tagging labels on people is beyond me.

Riled? Not in the slightest, it is, as you say, an Internet forum and if I was actually getting involved enough to get riled, I would need to look at my priorities.

As it is, I don't think being on an Internet forum excuses impoliteness, its more important that we phrase things in a polite manner to avoid our intentions being misconstrued.

I found these comments, especially the second one, to be poorly phrased, and came across as rude. Try offering contradictory opinions as fact, with little or no justification, to your friends and see how long it takes before they get irritated and tell you to blow it out your hole.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, and I agree that in many cases this could be taken as implied, but we all have a responsibility to express those opinions in an appropriate manner. I found these quotes, to me, didn't.

PS I realise the irony of talking of politeness when I was obviously sharp, but I plead historical precedent in this case!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well we wouldn't be part of Bryll's "Butt Hurt Brigade" (whatever the feth that is) if we didn't assign labels...

Ah if it's not the Black Knight of Butt Hurt Manor....

D'oh hoist on my own petard!

 azreal13 wrote:

BryllCream wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

'
I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

BryllCream wrote:

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

You really are mainlining the cool aid at this point aren't you?

Thing is, if you simply added 'I think' or 'in my opinion' you would come across as much less of a fanboy, but as it is, you are confusing Your opinion for objective fact.

I wasn't aware that I needed to add the words "in my opinion" when stating my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:

 notprop wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

BryllCream wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
That may be so - but the WELL written 40k novels are few and far between.

It's a long hard road to find one that ISN'T marine-fanwank-bolterporn.

I've never read any WH40K books so I don't know but I have heard that the best ones are "inspired" by the Flashman and the Sharpe series of novels.

Yeah dogs statement is entirely unfair thanks to the existence of Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell.

The gaunts ghosts series is really excellent military sci fi, he writes such good dialogue between the officers and men of the Imperial guard you could be forgiven for thinking that the bloke was in the Navy SEALs! He has been compared to Cornwell, but obviously I wouldn't go that far.

Gaunt's Ghosts is a lot better than Sharpe, Gaunt alone is a stronger charector than Sharpe, and the interactions he has with the people around him are a lot more believable - and interesting - than in Sharpe. He also doesn't inexplicably rise up the ranks.

:

BryllCream wrote:

 Necro wrote:
Mordheim, Necromunda BFG, Tailsman, and Epic were all great. 40K and Fantasy have been butchered to the point of unplayable now

40k is better than it's ever been. Which edition do you prefer and why?

You really are mainlining the cool aid at this point aren't you?

Thing is, if you simply added 'I think' or 'in my opinion' you would come across as much less of a fanboy, but as it is, you are confusing Your opinion for objective fact.

To be fair it's quite clear this is his opinion - it's a message board. Adding IMO or I think is redundant: a bit like suggesting he needs to conform to your need for him appear to not like something as much as he quite clearly does.

Quite why feel the need to get a riled up and start tagging labels on people is beyond me.

Riled? Not in the slightest, it is, as you say, an Internet forum and if I was actually getting involved enough to get riled, I would need to look at my priorities.

As it is, I don't think being on an Internet forum excuses impoliteness, its more important that we phrase things in a polite manner to avoid our intentions being misconstrued.

I found these comments, especially the second one, to be poorly phrased, and came across as rude. Try offering contradictory opinions as fact, with little or no justification, to your friends and see how long it takes before they get irritated and tell you to blow it out your hole.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, and I agree that in many cases this could be taken as implied, but we all have a responsibility to express those opinions in an appropriate manner. I found these quotes, to me, didn't.

PS I realise the irony of talking of politeness when I was obviously sharp, but I plead historical precedent in this case!

that'd good, you can tell that you've made an effort. You've clearly done well in exams.

Meanwhile my comments were curt because I'm posting on my phone from the canteen at work, but feel free to insult me further

No more walls of text, please.

Please!

Unless you make an acrostic.

...it's like flying over ziggurats...

Well, for a start, The Lord of the Rings game is a bloody fantastic game. Well balanced, an engaging system, kinda realistic and great models (save the new Gollum). It's the game that got me into wargaming, and I've never forgotten the first game I played: my wood elves led by Haldir got pulped by some pesky Goblins!

Speaking of Wood Elves, I think GW did some really really nice work on the WHFB Wood Elf range. I think that's what keeps me around for GW stuff - the models. I think that the old models look fantastic (well a lot of them, there are of course many exceptions to the rule) and the newer ones are also good. The new Dark Eldar look bloody fantastic. So do the Grey Knights and, no matter what people say, the Chaos Space Marines look really, really good.

I also think that they've managed to write engaging background for both 40k and Fantasy. Look at the 40k background forum if you don't believe me - the world is detailed and enthralling, allowing people to argue which of the 18 superhuman badasses is their favourite, for example. Their fantasy realm is also really good. There are some great stories in there, such as the Sundering and the many wars of Chaos. That's what really makes 40k and WHFB stand out - the fluff, which manages to merge many pop culture references and influences into a coherent realm. In fact, if GW had made up everything themselves, I don't think that it would have been quite so popular - after all, if you're thrown into a new world, you want some familiarity.

40k no longer really interests me. To be honest, I've never really enjoyed 40k that much. Fantasy and LOTR continue to be really amusing, though, and I long for the day when I'll find someone to play Epic and Warmaster with!

The fluff.

The way they have set up the fluff, for me, is genius. They are able to rewrite the story and add new elements in because it all really is just campfire tales. People telling tales to each other of things they have heard at the last campfire they sat at, genius.

Also, when they had events that actually affected the story or made you feel like you were going to make an impact with the way you played; that really was what drove me to play 40k. Before this I had spent a lot of time playing D&D and always enjoyed playing in more established enviroments. So when I saw 40k and how they were doing these kind of global events that only required me to play locally, I bought in.

I am still interested in the stories of 40k, but I stopped playing because it has stopped feeling like they care about them.

Orks.

Orks are the last holdover from "fun" 40k when the game realized it was parody. For every failed story trying to emo-ify Orks there's a far more memorable one that includes something like pirates questing for fancy hats.

Of course when the Ward codex comes out...

 BryllCream wrote:

I wasn't aware that I needed to add the words "in my opinion" when stating my opinion.

You don't have to do anything in your posts, but couching your replies in softer language might make your replies appear less militant and therefore less likely to provoke a reaction as they did in me in this case. Just sayin.

 BryllCream wrote:

that'd good, you can tell that you've made an effort. You've clearly done well in exams.

Meanwhile my comments were curt because I'm posting on my phone from the canteen at work, but feel free to insult me further

I would excuse brevity, but I won't excuse curtness, impoliteness or anything else negative just because you're on your phone. That's just a convenient excuse to cover poor manners people trot out.

As for insulting you? Well, all I can see that you may have been insulted by is the cool aid comment, and if you're insulted by that, I would really read back over your comment history and reconsider your approach!

I will, however, continue to call you out on poorly made arguments, 'curt' posts or anything else that pops up on my screen

Oh, and yes, I did very well in my exams, although they were some time ago. Thanks for caring.

Quite why feel the need to get a riled up and start tagging labels on people is beyond me.

Yeah having fallen foul of both sides I agree entirely, it's almost embarrassing the need to "pick a side" on here, although I do tend to sympathize more with the lovers than the haters despite the fact I'm hugely more of a hater than a white knight, my position on GW has evolved to the point where I definitely do dislike the company, and I will laugh long and loud if Chapterhouse mash them in court.

I suppose due to lovers just seemingly being slightly less hypocritical, half of the more needlessly rude haters entirely ignore me because I upset them with a few jibes whilst sticking up for GW at some point, but they seem happy to insult perceived fan boys regularly and with some venom. I don't ignore people because I used to like making the occasional cutting remark myself! Those days are over alas... But while I have many flaws, lack of integrity ain't one of them.

That said..... Gaunt better than Major Sharpe?!

Good god man! Has the world gone mad!?

I'd also put Flashman above Cain, much as I like some of BLs fiction, the literary critic in me cannot conceive of the idea of rating GW's stuff above actually celebrated writers. But perhaps in hindsight I'm being a snob.

Only Abnett really does it for me out of all their sizeable stable.

I will offer that I don't consider myself a GW 'hater' as such, more they are one company among many who's games I play, or would be interested in playing, but as they occupy a large segment of the hobby, they inevitably tend to dominate discussion on here. i do seem to have been waiting an awfully long time for them to do anything I can get behind and support however...

I like their washes too. The pots are really great for them. If only the rest of the line came in dropper bottles! It would make painting stuff so much easier.

After the past month or so?


Mordhiem, Heroquest, and the additional gaming expansions.


Had or would GW stop gakking about, they would carry over the trend of the late 90's expansions- they would not be blathering around trying to build a wall with lawsuits, and a moat filled with the blood of countless disgruntled fans.

I've revisited these rules sets with a new light, Reaper minis, and a metric gak ton of printed cardstock scenery and tiles.


The stuff is pure genius, and the ultimate fantasy game.

As for Scifi- Space Hulk is GW's best game, and Necromunda the best game system.

I'm at the point where I have so many game systems and figures that I'm good with my opinion of GW.

They suck, but get it right enough to not be entirely disappointed with them.