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DukeRustfield wrote:
MakesKidsKill wrote:
OK are the most blatant pandering to noob, OP money grab in the history of Fantasy. Oh, you're brand new and can't paint? Here's an army that has 1/4 the models as any other, and they're all really big so you don't have to worry about painting tiny faces! And they're super durable too, so you don't have to worry if you suck, you can make mistakes all day and still stay on the board!

There are armies I would never get in a million years because I literally can't paint them. Not everyone is a watchmaker. And while there is skill involved that comes with practice, if you don't like painting tiny faces you're not necessarily a "noob," you're a person who drinks coffee and at the end of a day doesn't want to paint something using a microscope and a single rat hair brush.


Duke has a good point but that was still a nice rant about the OK. Its a bit fuzzy to me now but were they really that good when they were introduced? I dont remember them dominating at all locally like they have in recent months.

   
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They weren't, they we pretty meh in 6th, downright terrible in 7th, and 8th edition made them decent.

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Not to mention not really out of place, they were originally Dogs of War units that got expanded, the only people I honestly could remember that disliked them was those that wanted their own DoW to become expanded out into an army. (Most likely Cathay, or brought back Kislev)

Which I enjoy, a full MI army is honestly pretty cool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/26 10:59:42


 
   
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Yeah I have to say the general idea of splitting up all Chaos was a poor decision. Also I am still not happy about how they went about Beastmen. If they are no longer of Chaos(which doesnt really make sense, but anyway)then they should at least have Marks of The Beasts or something, instead of Marks of Chaos. Although I like seeing all the armies as their own, I don't think it was such a good idea in the long run. Hordes of Chaos was better in my opinion. It still had all the Chaos and a pure Daemons, Warriors, or Beasts army could still be had.
   
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Did GW ever give an explanation why they decided to split up Chaos?

I assume they did it to sell more models, but just curious is there was an official statement.
   
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aclive wrote:
Did GW ever give an explanation why they decided to split up Chaos?

I assume they did it to sell more models, but just curious is there was an official statement.


I dont recall, but the initial split occured with the reboot of all armies in 6th edition. The Ravening Hordes army lists for 6th is when they were split. This made some sense because everything had to be rebalanced so splitting them made that chore easier I presume. Also it was kind of an evolutionary step from the 5th edition book where you had warbands of each of the three factions led by a leader of one of the factions. When the sixth edition books came out the factions were partially reunited because you could take choices from books other than your general's book as special choices.

I think having three books is really good, but the failure happened when you could no longer mix and match units from the books in the 7th edition lists.

Sadly I dont think whfb has ever recovered from the big 6th edition die off. The core rules were a great advance in the game but so many people left because the ravening hordes list for their army was just sparse. For a fact in my local area whfb has never been as strong as it was during 5th edition. We used to have two or more tourneys every month in a 30 mile radius, now we have maybe 2 per 3 months if someone can be found to run the event. There are just a ridiculous number of 40k tournaments in this area with 5 or 6 stores having tourneys in about a 45 mile radius all connected by good interstate highways and easy traffic.

   
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 Sigvatr wrote:
Magic was the main reason people dropped 8th in here. Magic and dumbed-down movement. Most switched to 40k as their main system and WHFB is really barren more or less..of 10 tournaments in my local area, 9 are 40k and the WHFB tourneys only got like 7-12 people playing compared to 30+ in 40k.


Wait, they didn't like simplistic movement and crazy powerful magic, so they went to 40k.....which has simplistic movement, and crazy powerful psychic powers?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 23:26:52


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Mr Mugguffins wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
Magic was the main reason people dropped 8th in here. Magic and dumbed-down movement. Most switched to 40k as their main system and WHFB is really barren more or less..of 10 tournaments in my local area, 9 are 40k and the WHFB tourneys only got like 7-12 people playing compared to 30+ in 40k.


Wait, they didn't like simplistic movement and crazy powerful magic, so they went to 40k.....which has simplistic movement, and crazy powerful psychic powers?



When 8th dropped, 40k was in 5th edition. By 'simplistic movement', people generally refer to random charge ranges. 5th edition had all fixed movement aside from running. Charging especially was still fixed, so in general, you knew if you were 12" away from an enemy at the start of your turn, you would definitely be able to assault. Psychic powers in 5th edition were also incredibly weak.

6th edition brought Fantasy type random charges on top of random running with a side order of powerful psychic powers (but with none even approaching the likes of Purple Sun/Mindrazor/Pit).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/01 02:48:57


 
   
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Random charges, in MY D6 roll-for-every-action-you-possibly-make game? You don't say.

Random movement fixed a lot of bugs IMHO. Dwarfs being able to not be a gunline. And similar other armies being stuck in certain modes. It allowed pre-measuring, which was a dirty not-secret in the game. But now that every component had a random element, you could measure all you like. It speeds up the game. If everyone can measure, every single move is going to be perfectly coordinated so you're 1/2 inch away from the enemy in every direction. You can still do that, but there isn't the same need to be surgically precise because it's random.

   
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Although I believe that 8th edition did a lot of good things to the game as a whole, there is barely anyone left playing the game at my FLGS because of the increase of unit sizes combined with the cost of GW models. Now, the only Fantasy players I see at my store are my dedicated group of 3-4 players. Even the owner of the store scoffs at us and generally asks "why do you still play Fantasy anymore?". Most everyone at our FLGS plays Flames, Warmahordes, or 40k, and I even find myself playing more games of X-Wing and Starship Troopers than I do Fantasy. So, on the basis that I simply can't find anymore games of Fantasy at my FLGS, and the fact that any games I do play will be with the same 5 armies, my vote has to go to 8th edition.

Then again, I am a relatively new player to Fantasy, only starting when the old High Elf book was released, so this is merely based off of my limited experience.


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JWhex wrote:
Anyone that left fantasy for 40k is now stuck in 6th. I think 6th is by far the worst set of core rules for 40k since second edition.


Yeah I quit 40k, couldn't get into it.

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 Doomsday B wrote:
Although I believe that 8th edition did a lot of good things to the game as a whole, there is barely anyone left playing the game at my FLGS because of the increase of unit sizes combined with the cost of GW models. Now, the only Fantasy players I see at my store are my dedicated group of 3-4 players. Even the owner of the store scoffs at us and generally asks "why do you still play Fantasy anymore?". Most everyone at our FLGS plays Flames, Warmahordes, or 40k, and I even find myself playing more games of X-Wing and Starship Troopers than I do Fantasy. So, on the basis that I simply can't find anymore games of Fantasy at my FLGS, and the fact that any games I do play will be with the same 5 armies, my vote has to go to 8th edition.

Then again, I am a relatively new player to Fantasy, only starting when the old High Elf book was released, so this is merely based off of my limited experience.


I only jumped on with 8th but from what I am seeing in my local area since 8th there has been steady growth, but that growth is not nearly enough since 8th basically killed fantasy around here. We are back up to tournaments with 30 players and 4-8 regulars with fantasy on club nights but we were apparently seeing 80+ player tournies before that.
The game seems to be an improvement from what I have heard of 7th, and most people that played it in my area seem to agree, but there is no one left to appreciate it for the very reasons you listed I imagine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/03 15:23:52


 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
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Which I find very strange.

If you have been playing Fantasy for an extended period of time(3-4 editions) you probably have a steady income, and so can afford to increase your army size.

There is also no point in throwing your army away/selling it. and refusing to play is just childish, especially when the rules really are a marked improvement over the past stupidity.


Furthermore, its called Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Not Warhammer Fantasy Skirmishes. 3-4 units of 20 guys is not an army. 3-4 units of 50+ guys is an army, kinda.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/03 16:13:16


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 Grey Templar wrote:
Which I find very strange.

If you have been playing Fantasy for an extended period of time(3-4 editions) you probably have a steady income, and so can afford to increase your army size.


Unless you had just the absolute minnimum of models for 7th you probably did not really need to buy anything for 8th. Maybe a couple of boxes of infantry. If you want to be competitive then you may need to buy stuff when your army book is renewed every 4 to 10 years but even then the MAJORITY of your models will still be very useful.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is also no point in throwing your army away/selling it. and refusing to play is just childish, especially when the rules really are a marked improvement over the past stupidity.


I dont think you can say the 8th rules are definitively better than 7th. Both versions have flaws and advantages. Sadly we are definitely going to see a disparity between army books as TK and Demons suck compared to VC, OK and the HE. Beastmen will also have a crap book for all of 8th as well and probably WE too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/04 00:38:57


   
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Don't see what this thread is about. 8th and the new books are some of the best things to have happened to WFB in a long time. The new books are all fairly balanced (relative to each other) with very few WTF items in there. The playing field is more level than ever at the top and it's just the old books that cause issues. The best thing though is that the new books all allow various builds to be made, there is no single right answer or power build.
   
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 John Rainbow wrote:
Don't see what this thread is about. 8th and the new books are some of the best things to have happened to WFB in a long time. The new books are all fairly balanced (relative to each other) with very few WTF items in there. The playing field is more level than ever at the top and it's just the old books that cause issues. The best thing though is that the new books all allow various builds to be made, there is no single right answer or power build.


The thread is about the worst whfb release of all time it is not restricted to releases since 8th.

Whether the new books are all fairly balanced or not, as you have asserted is very much disputed. In general no one that is active in competitive play would claim that the OK book and the TK books are evenly matched. The DoC is likewise very weak compared to OK, VC, and WoC in a competitive tournament environment.

   
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JWhex wrote:
 John Rainbow wrote:
Don't see what this thread is about. 8th and the new books are some of the best things to have happened to WFB in a long time. The new books are all fairly balanced (relative to each other) with very few WTF items in there. The playing field is more level than ever at the top and it's just the old books that cause issues. The best thing though is that the new books all allow various builds to be made, there is no single right answer or power build.


The thread is about the worst whfb release of all time it is not restricted to releases since 8th.

Whether the new books are all fairly balanced or not, as you have asserted is very much disputed. In general no one that is active in competitive play would claim that the OK book and the TK books are evenly matched. The DoC is likewise very weak compared to OK, VC, and WoC in a competitive tournament environment.


Daemons of Chaos are likely even worse than Tomb Kings right now if you're being honest with yourself...

I mean, the dusty ones at least have the likes of Khalida for a big poison brick, Sphinxies which are quite tough outside of cannonballing, (but cannons kill everything big and always have been the bane of monsters, so no surprises there!) There's snake surfers and access to the lores of Death & Light - which is godly on Undead!
Sure, they're still not going to stomp the tournament scene or anything, but at least you can put something workably competitive together...

Daemons just got the royal shaft at every turn on the other hand...
Again, you can throw something workably competitive together, but then 1 bad roll can ruin the entire army on Turn 1 as well. Reign of Comedy is so gakking bad compared to it's 40k counterpart. At least the Warpstorm is overall beneficial to the Daemon player!
Not to mention the other huge gaffs;
- Khorne & Tzeentch being mostly worthless junk
- Gifts being a joke compared to 40k's version
- General & BSB stupidity
- Heralds & locii abilities being probably the most overcosted things in the entire game
- Skillcannons being auto-includes every single time
- The rest of the chariots in general being horrifically overcosted, while the Blood Throne is gob-smackingly bad.
- Nerfs that made no sense... (looking at you Bloodcrushers!)

Compared to the 40k book, the Fantasy Daemon book is a bad joke. It pretty much got the 7th ed Orc & Goblin treatment with their new 8th ed book.

 
   
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Experiment 626 wrote:
JWhex wrote:
 John Rainbow wrote:
Don't see what this thread is about. 8th and the new books are some of the best things to have happened to WFB in a long time. The new books are all fairly balanced (relative to each other) with very few WTF items in there. The playing field is more level than ever at the top and it's just the old books that cause issues. The best thing though is that the new books all allow various builds to be made, there is no single right answer or power build.


The thread is about the worst whfb release of all time it is not restricted to releases since 8th.

Whether the new books are all fairly balanced or not, as you have asserted is very much disputed. In general no one that is active in competitive play would claim that the OK book and the TK books are evenly matched. The DoC is likewise very weak compared to OK, VC, and WoC in a competitive tournament environment.


Daemons of Chaos are likely even worse than Tomb Kings right now if you're being honest with yourself...

I mean, the dusty ones at least have the likes of Khalida for a big poison brick, Sphinxies which are quite tough outside of cannonballing, (but cannons kill everything big and always have been the bane of monsters, so no surprises there!) There's snake surfers and access to the lores of Death & Light - which is godly on Undead!
Sure, they're still not going to stomp the tournament scene or anything, but at least you can put something workably competitive together...

Daemons just got the royal shaft at every turn on the other hand...
Again, you can throw something workably competitive together, but then 1 bad roll can ruin the entire army on Turn 1 as well. Reign of Comedy is so gakking bad compared to it's 40k counterpart. At least the Warpstorm is overall beneficial to the Daemon player!
Not to mention the other huge gaffs;
- Khorne & Tzeentch being mostly worthless junk
- Gifts being a joke compared to 40k's version
- General & BSB stupidity
- Heralds & locii abilities being probably the most overcosted things in the entire game
- Skillcannons being auto-includes every single time
- The rest of the chariots in general being horrifically overcosted, while the Blood Throne is gob-smackingly bad.
- Nerfs that made no sense... (looking at you Bloodcrushers!)

Compared to the 40k book, the Fantasy Daemon book is a bad joke. It pretty much got the 7th ed Orc & Goblin treatment with their new 8th ed book.


Well all the demon nerfs you listed are true but I can find a way to win with demons in fantasy except perhaps against HE but I cannot forsee bothering with demons in 40k because I think the 40k demons are more flawed.

A nurgle build is pretty good in fantasy and some people have success with slaanesh but I dont like the low str. Tzeentch is just trash all the way around. The skullcannon is awesome but 8 is easy to roll on winds of magic so it will take a lot of wounds from the reign of comedy table. A unit of ambushing flesh hounds can be fun but their movement is so good it is almost a waste to ambush with them. For the most part khorne is sitting this edition out along with tzeentch.

Playing nurgle all the time is pretty boring and that is the real crime of the book, it leads to very limited army lists.

   
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+1 for the new Daemons of Chaos being the worst release ever. What an atrocious army book it is.

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 lordofthegophers wrote:
+1 for the new Daemons of Chaos being the worst release ever. What an atrocious army book it is.


It may be bad, but the current beastmen book is worse.

   
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JWhex wrote:

Well all the demon nerfs you listed are true but I can find a way to win with demons in fantasy except perhaps against HE but I cannot forsee bothering with demons in 40k because I think the 40k demons are more flawed.

A nurgle build is pretty good in fantasy and some people have success with slaanesh but I dont like the low str. Tzeentch is just trash all the way around. The skullcannon is awesome but 8 is easy to roll on winds of magic so it will take a lot of wounds from the reign of comedy table. A unit of ambushing flesh hounds can be fun but their movement is so good it is almost a waste to ambush with them. For the most part khorne is sitting this edition out along with tzeentch.

Playing nurgle all the time is pretty boring and that is the real crime of the book, it leads to very limited army lists.


Lol! Too bad I'm a die-hard Tzeentchian devotee and thus won't touch Nurgle even with a Realm of Chaos spanning pole on sheer principle alone!
Well, unless I can make those options into a suitable Tzeentchian 'counts as' variant, which at least gives me Firewyrms (aka Beasts) and Changebringers (aka Plaguedrones)... But that still leaves the most important unit in the Fantasy book - Plaguebearers as a "WTF can I make these into?" problem...

40k Daemons on the other hand work fairly well, outside of;
- Durp Knights with their broken codex vs Daemons
- Runes of Win... which is going to get changed up by the end of the year at the lastest
- Rune Priest spam... which can be om-nom'ed with turn 2 assaults
- av12 Flyer spam... which no one really likes so isn't so much a problem of the Daemon book lacking!

But overall the whole way the random was worked in to the 40k book was pulled off much better:
a) Reign of Comedy vs Warpstorm. Reign happens on the Winds of Magic roll which instantly breaks it due to how the results are tallied up. A bad roll for Winds when you're a Daemon player is a simply a double-whamy of potentially game-ending shinanigans, becuase not only do you get a sub-par magic phase, but you can lose whole chunks of your army, your wizard or else bone your saves.

At least in 40k, it's in the Shooting Phase. (granted, there is no 40k 'magic phase') But this simply re-inforces the issues of how badly implimented it is in Fantasy!
The Magic Phase is long enough. Now we're adding in a psudo-shooting phase as well with the 4 most common results, or else adding in potential army-wide Instability checks, which tends to simply distract from what's supposed to be going on normally, ie: Magic casting & dispelling!
Put it in the shooting phase where it honestly belongs and won't double-screw the Daemon player with it's bad results. (or even potentially break the enemy wide open should their Wizard pop into a Herald and thus ruin their magic defenses!)

Then there's the biggest farce of all: 40k gives the Daemon player some control over the 4 average results, Fantasy doesn't and for no reason at all beyond sheer lazines.
Instruments in 40k can be used to protect your army from opposing Gods ramaging across your own units by giving you re-roll. Would it really have been too much to add such a mechanic onto Fantasy Musicians?! (ie: Each Slaanesh Musician gives a single re-roll the D6 to The Dark Prince Thirsts result and thus can stop it from crushing your Skullcannon in almost every single game...)

b) BSB vs Icons. I do admit I like the fact we've got the whole rivalry of the Gods bit going on again as it does add to the overall feel of the army in general and keeps things true to the backstory. But again, it's so piss-poorly implimented compared to 40k's Icon mechanics!
BSB's are critical in 8th edition, and especially so with rules like Daemonic Instability that can auto-pop whole units. Having such a critical mechanic only ever effect 25% of the army's total available units is crippling.
At least in 40k, non-matching Icons still have their uses by reducing scatters down to a single D6. (though I still say Khorne Icons should not work at all for Slaanesh units for example and vice-versa. Ditto for Tzeentch/Nurgle) But at least you're not handi-capping yourself by mixing Gods and you're not all but shoe-horned into mainly mono-builds just to keep your BSB/Icons relevent.

It's especially fustrating because our Heralds are so damn squishy unless you go for a Palanquin Herald... If our BSB is going to give-up the bonus VP's so easily, then why can't we at least gain more than a 25% army-wide benefit from it?!

c) Daemonic Gifts. They're simply a mess in Fantasy... Each level is written like a grab bag with "a little bit of everything" thrown in. (ie: a defensive upgrade, some 'be more killy' upgrades and a disruption upgrade) Then there's the fact that some gift results are outright useless! (Unholy Sacrifice is laughable - kill your own 500+ pts General! Cleaving Blow is situational at best and Sorcerous Loadstone will explode horribly in your face!)

Again, at least in the 40k book, things are better organised and you can buy roughly what you want... For example, the Lesser Rewards give cheap and effective weapons, and if you want protection, then Greater Gifts give you an outright 66% chance at getting some good protection.
Plus, there's really no outright useless/waste of pts results in any of the 3 tables. While Lesser Rewards for example may be 'meh' in some of their results, at the very worst it's always a cheap ap2 close combat weapon!

d) Loci Abilities. I don't even think this one needs explaining really...
For their cost and how horrific Heralds in general are in Fantasy, there's maybe 2-3 you'll ever even consider using since they're so halariously overcosted. (probably the worst costed stuff in the entire game!)
40k makes your Heralds true force multipliers and almost all the abilities are usefull. (Tzeentch kinda being the loser again, but I have had some very hummorous results lately with S5/6 Pink Horrors + Prescience doing things they honestly shouldn't!)



And this is before you even look at the individual units themselves!

While it's true that 40k Daemons still aren't roflstomping the tournament scene, they are doing alot better overall than the Fantasy crap-shoot... They have the tools to viably take-on most anything your opponent can put across the the table from you, (Durp Knights not withstanding - but that's the GK codex's fault for being a pure hard-counter), and they only get super stuffed by the current flyer problem everyone else faces, or older out of date rules that can screw over mainly Tzeentch-heavy builds.

 
   
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Yeah, if you hate nurgle and like Tzeentch then you are pretty much hosed this edition for fantasy.

   
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JWhex wrote:
 lordofthegophers wrote:
+1 for the new Daemons of Chaos being the worst release ever. What an atrocious army book it is.


It may be bad, but the current beastmen book is worse.


I dunno, outside of the horrendously overcosted rares, its not all that bad. At least they get access to BRB items. And dont forget, when it was released 8th wasnt out, so their own ambush rule made sense too.

Not saying its great or anything, but certainly not bottom...


unless we have to count Pumba.

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Yah you can't say TK have Khalida and forget Doc have nurgle. And slaanesh isn't bad. Nurgle doc is damn powerful.

   
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DukeRustfield wrote:
Yah you can't say TK have Khalida and forget Doc have nurgle. And slaanesh isn't bad. Nurgle doc is damn powerful.


Tzeentch says Nurgle doesn't exist in his armies and is simply a figment of some random Herald's imagination, reflecting off of that upsidedown colodiscopic disco ball in the Impossible Fortress, that's hanging from the ceiling in the main dance hall up the third staircase to your opposite right and then make a virticle turn at the 9th door to find it!



All kidding aside, I'm not a huge fan of Nurgle, and I shouldn't be forced to go out and buy a bunch of crap I really won't enjoy building/painting just to stay competitive.

 
   
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DukeRustfield wrote:
Yah you can't say TK have Khalida and forget Doc have nurgle. And slaanesh isn't bad. Nurgle doc is damn powerful.


Yeah I have completely tabled or nearly tabled the most competitive bst builds in the three games against them with Nurgle. In one game I broke and ran down a bestigor horde, chariot and gor horde in my turn 2 and the Epidemius tally was at zero buffs.

We have been testing a friends bst army for an upcoming GT and the nurgle epidemius build just absolutely overpowers the beastmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 japehlio wrote:
JWhex wrote:
 lordofthegophers wrote:
+1 for the new Daemons of Chaos being the worst release ever. What an atrocious army book it is.


It may be bad, but the current beastmen book is worse.


I dunno, outside of the horrendously overcosted rares, its not all that bad. At least they get access to BRB items. And dont forget, when it was released 8th wasnt out, so their own ambush rule made sense too.

Not saying its great or anything, but certainly not bottom...


unless we have to count Pumba.


I would rate the bst book as middle tier. It can and has done well at some big tournaments. I like the army and have a huge collection. I can probably put about 4k of painted metal beastmen models on the table.

The army just has so few good builds though it gets boring to play, same thing with DoC and the Nurgle builds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/06 02:38:06


   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot





Livingston, United Kingdom

JWhex wrote:

The army just has so few good builds though it gets boring to play, same thing with DoC and the Nurgle builds.


I think that this is always the deathknell for any book; not when it is not powerful, but when it is boring. I find that my TK book isn't all that - certainly the writer seemed terrified that our constructs and buffing characters would do too well, so ringfenced them with terrible rules - but it has options, there are a number of ways that I can build my army. I've seen gunlines with dual catapults and snakesurfers protecting the archers, tombguardstar bricks, armies with 6 sphinges, people either swearing by or at the stalkers, etc.

But from what I've seen, Beastmen are basically mono-build. So are Bretonnians to an extent. And poo to that. Any list gets dull after a while. You want variety.
   
Made in ca
Inspiring Icon Bearer




Canada

Yeah I've been doing really well with my TK, and I really enjoy the way that they play. Sure it sucks when my Hierophant jumps into the warp and my entire army evaporates in a couple turns, but such is life.

As for worst release, I'd have to throw my weight behind the Chaos split as well. The Realm of Chaos boxed set was such an awesome and flavour-fileld edition. I don't really understand why they felt the need to split it up. With my other armies I generally stop at around 150% of the units I need to field my 2,500 pt list, but with Chaos I just kept going and going to try out all the book's variety. I spent more money on that army than I'll ever spend on an army again.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Uzi Toting Monkeys wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed, their aesthetic is pretty darn attractive and unique. The Ravenous Hordes really are the Ravenous Hordes.


Ravening Hordes!

.Case closed.

Seriously though, I get why they did it but RH was just lazy. Be grateful for your sub-par army books


Winner winner chicken dinner. This was the worst thing the ever did, especially for WE players like me that had to attempt to use a 4 page codex effectively for 4-5 years. I won a lot of games with it, but it still was a pile of lazy crap rolled in lame and covered with unnecessary nerfs.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
 
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