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@jy2


At the end of GK t3 vs nob bikers

didn't the GK kill all models in b2b, and after pile ins no unit was in b2b? gk moved up 3" so did bikers and no one in b2b so combat should end with models all consolidating d6" (dependent on the loser not failing morale and running)?

leavin it ork T4, like 3" away... setup for 4 kombi skorcha shots and a re charge (potentially with a boss going in solo first to absorb over-watch)? (had they not ran off like wussies)

or am I missing the rules? been out of 40k a min.

ref pages #

23 left side torward bottom right above the angel with the trumpet

if the assault ended on Gk t3 (per page 23 because models could not get b2b with eachother), and orks didn't fail LD6, they should be free to move in position and light GK up, re charge etc. right? but failed LD6 with a re roll I presume. (why you need a stock non-character-that-will-be-killed-in-a-challenge-nob-who-just-hangs-out-and-PK's-people-for-LD

Both sides have to consolidate 3" during each initiative step, at I6, I4, I3 and I1, so everyone should have been able to attack.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Both sides have to consolidate 3" during each initiative step, at I3 and I1, so everyone should have been able to attack.

Not true. It's only models that are swinging that pile-in, not both sides.

Ok, so this is what happened in the 2nd combat:


This photo was actually taken after the nob bikers piled in. Keep in mind that each biker base is about 2.5-3" long.

My paladins pile-in first and kill 4 nob bikers. The rear nob bikers then pile-in 3" and that was as far as they could get (pictured above). Since there is no one in base except the warboss, who was in a challenge (and thus couldn't fight against the unit because he was involved in the challenge), basically combat was over and orks had to take their Morale test, which they failed (needed snake-eyes to pass).

Can we see:

Pink Star vs Bad Company

Think that would be a good match-up. If played right the death company could limit the shooting of the pinkstar and try to indulge in some FnP boost!

Oh, dark harlestar Vs. bad company would be fun. Can we see that, two CC only units would be a really fun match. + We want to see Vect plough through the entire unit

Ahha! I got confused by the proxy of a normal warboss for a bikerboss - the 40mm base guy was killed off earlier my brain processed that as the only warboss.

Thanks jy2 - sorry if you thought I was being a pain.

Each Star should be done once with each player going first. The first turn is going to be very important to almost every Star(except mebbe Farsight. :-) ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm assuming it isn't bias as the OP is Grey Knights and he evidently despises the sheer idea of the Deldar Star. :-P

So far, in tournament play, the record is this:

Tau 2-0 2000VP's

Deldar 1-1 1000VP's

Grey Knights 1-2 1970VP's

Daemons 1-2 1196VP's


If Deldar can beat Tau, they will then be tied for 1st, in which case they would need to play off against each other once again. Otherwise, Tau will come out undefeated and the three 1-2 deathstars will be ranked by Victory Points (when the record is tied).


Coming up later today, the final game of the tournament:


Game #6 - 1000 Farsight-Bomb Tau vs Seer Council Deldar


Will be posted on p. 8.

 jy2 wrote:
If Deldar can beat Tau, they will then be tied for 1st, in which case they would need to play off against each other once again. Otherwise, Tau will come out undefeated and the three 1-2 deathstars will be ranked by Victory Points (when the record is tied).


Coming up later today, the final game of the tournament:

Spoiler alert!

I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

 SabrX wrote:
I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

That's why I'd shoot the pallys rather than engage them head on....

It's all about the volume of shots... you only need to be 18"... sure, the nobz will get shot at too... but a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP are good odds.

Tau/Dar WraithBomb

ShadowSun 135pts

Tau Commander 205pts w/ vectored Retro-thrusters; plasma rifle x2; Onager Gauntlet, Repulsor Impact Field, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit)

6 fire warriors 54pts

Eldrad 210pts

10 Wraithguard with spirit seer Conceal 396pts

A legal beat stick...

2+ re-rollable cover save... They can all benefit from the neurochip and ignore cover with their shooting. Might trade plasma for missles for the sake of firing and charging still.

Game #6 - Tau vs Deldar - completed on p. 8.

Wow, doom AND misfortune is horrible, coupled with prescience and fortune for the attacking squad is pretty darn tasty as well!. Eldar really can hold their own with a good player using a seer council

 Tomb King wrote:
Can we see:

Pink Star vs Bad Company

Think that would be a good match-up. If played right the death company could limit the shooting of the pinkstar and try to indulge in some FnP boost!

If I have the time, I might try out that match-up.

But I can tell you right now that it will be a massacre by daemons. Their shooting is just too strong and the Angels really have no answer for a buffed-up LoC. Stay away and BA will get shot up by the Pinkstar. Get up close and they will get assaulted by the LoC. Now if the Angels get lucky and daemons get a bunch of bad breaks, BA might be able to squeak one by. Otherwise, they will be a huge underdog.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Oh, dark harlestar Vs. bad company would be fun. Can we see that, two CC only units would be a really fun match. + We want to see Vect plough through the entire unit

I would like to try out the Dark Harliestar, but one of the reasons why I haven't done so yet is because I don't own any Eldar models. So I can wait until I go up against a Dark Harliestar player (Frankie from Frontline Gaming) or I can proxy the units. Maybe....

rigeld2 wrote:
Ahha! I got confused by the proxy of a normal warboss for a bikerboss - the 40mm base guy was killed off earlier my brain processed that as the only warboss.

Thanks jy2 - sorry if you thought I was being a pain.

I've got no problems with you guys asking questions. Sometimes, pictures can be misleading because they don't tell the whole story. I have no problems clarifying potentially confusing situations.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Each Star should be done once with each player going first. The first turn is going to be very important to almost every Star(except mebbe Farsight. :-) ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm assuming it isn't bias as the OP is Grey Knights and he evidently despises the sheer idea of the Deldar Star. :-P

IMO, a true deathstar shouldn't care whether they go first or second. If they do, then they aren't a very good deathstar. All the deathstars in my list are designed to be able to survive an enemy alpha-strike, if not with its resiliency then with deployment and tactics.

I admit that I am biased against the space elves because they've always been a bane to almost every army I play. Of course my armies - daemons, tyranids, grey knights, space wolves - all tend to be psychic-heavy with the exception of Necrons and Chaos Space Marines. However, as much as I am biased, I also acknowledge that the space elves can be very good, especially when allied with their dark brethen. I don't really look forwards to fighting eldar because they always give my armies such a tought fight.

Same goes with Tau, who always give my armies a lot of problems as well.

 SabrX wrote:
I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

I'm not. A souped-up paladinstar really outclasses nob bikers. Nob bikers won't be able to beat them one-on-one (at least not without a lot of luck). They need help from the rest of the ork army. Get a bunch of ork boys to tie up the paladins so that the nobs can go around killing everything else but the paladins. That's how orks will beat Draigowing.

 whembly wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

That's why I'd shoot the pallys rather than engage them head on....

It's all about the volume of shots... you only need to be 18"... sure, the nobz will get shot at too... but a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP are good odds.

That's a losing battle. Paladins will outshoot nob bikers any day of the week. You won't win that battle of attrition.

 Tomb King wrote:
Tau/Dar WraithBomb

ShadowSun 135pts

Tau Commander 205pts w/ vectored Retro-thrusters; plasma rifle x2; Onager Gauntlet, Repulsor Impact Field, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit)

6 fire warriors 54pts

Eldrad 210pts

10 Wraithguard with spirit seer Conceal 396pts

A legal beat stick...

2+ re-rollable cover save... They can all benefit from the neurochip and ignore cover with their shooting. Might trade plasma for missles for the sake of firing and charging still.

Not bad, but not viable either. Sure they've got resiliency, but this unit has neither the mobility nor the volume-of-fire to deal with other true deathstars.

MarkyMark wrote:
Wow, doom AND misfortune is horrible, coupled with prescience and fortune for the attacking squad is pretty darn tasty as well!. Eldar really can hold their own with a good player using a seer council

Yeah, those are basically the best power-combos that the seer council can get. They kill with with their volume-of-quality attacks. Re-rolls to hit, re-rolls to wound and the enemy needs to re-roll successful saves....that is one brutal combination.

That was a pretty nasty game 6. One thing I just noticed, why no Drone Controller for the Tau? 8 points to raise those 26 gun drone shots to BS3 seems like a great deal.

That game just wasn't meant to be (great eldar powers, great saves, Eldar got the first turn, etc). But I actually think you were underestimating Tau's mobility. I think Tau can avoid the Eldar for 2 full turns, on average.
Deploy a little further back, so the Eldar are forced to conga-line a bit more. They have to stay 1" away, of course. Move 6" away. Average shooting should put down 4-5 warlocks (giving you another 3" or so). Jump back 10-11". They could easily start their turn 20" or further away.

Looking forward to the rematch. I still think Tau have the advantage. Thanks again for the reports!

Great batreps. Thanks

Siphen wrote:

That game just wasn't meant to be (great eldar powers, great saves, Eldar got the first turn, etc). But I actually think you were underestimating Tau's mobility. I think Tau can avoid the Eldar for 2 full turns, on average.
Deploy a little further back, so the Eldar are forced to conga-line a bit more. They have to stay 1" away, of course. Move 6" away. Average shooting should put down 4-5 warlocks (giving you another 3" or so). Jump back 10-11". They could easily start their turn 20" or further away.

Looking forward to the rematch. I still think Tau have the advantage. Thanks again for the reports!

I have to agree, the Tau should be deploying as far back as possible, especially if they go second, as having space to retreat into doesn't seem like a factor at all. I think this matchup is entirely dependent on getting first turn, I think that without the defensive magics, the eldar will be hard pressed to survive the Tau's early firepower, and with it, the Tau can't put enough hurt out.

Just checking... against the Deldar, are you taking DtW against the Destructors?

I have to say I didn't like the outcome of the Farsight Tau vs. the Jetseer council. One of the newest codexes doesn't have anything to defeat one of the oldest death stars in the game? I hope the rematch will end differently. I really want the Tau to put it to those cheap jet bikes. Also I don't think its fair when you get to pick your own powers without rolling for them like normal. Pretty much everything else seemed fair to me. Tau got nothing against inevitable close combat and psychic powers. Also did you try rolling for deny the witch?

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
I have to say I didn't like the outcome of the Farsight Tau vs. the Jetseer council. One of the newest codexes doesn't have anything to defeat one of the oldest death stars in the game? I hope the rematch will end differently. I really want the Tau to put it to those cheap jet bikes. Also I don't think its fair when you get to pick your own powers without rolling for them like normal. Pretty much everything else seemed fair to me. Tau got nothing against inevitable close combat and psychic powers. Also did you try rolling for deny the witch?

Trust me... Tau have PLENTY of thing that can deal with the council, just not with their established death star. For example... HYMP broadsides with drones... add in a commander with an MSS and a drone controller and you will see warlocks fall even with fortune.

Drone controllers don't effect missile drones.

Siphen wrote:
That was a pretty nasty game 6. One thing I just noticed, why no Drone Controller for the Tau? 8 points to raise those 26 gun drone shots to BS3 seems like a great deal.

That game just wasn't meant to be (great eldar powers, great saves, Eldar got the first turn, etc). But I actually think you were underestimating Tau's mobility. I think Tau can avoid the Eldar for 2 full turns, on average.
Deploy a little further back, so the Eldar are forced to conga-line a bit more. They have to stay 1" away, of course. Move 6" away. Average shooting should put down 4-5 warlocks (giving you another 3" or so). Jump back 10-11". They could easily start their turn 20" or further away.

Looking forward to the rematch. I still think Tau have the advantage. Thanks again for the reports!

Don't have my dex with me, but can you control other suit's drones? I was under the impression that, unless you are in a unit of drones only, each bodyguard needs to get a DC in order to raise the BS of his drone. Maybe one for YMDC? I'll look it up after work.

I may just try that in the rematch. In the first game, he surrounded me and I felt that I couldn't really get away. The next game I will probably try to get away. If I am able to jump back far enough, I may just make his charge risky. With just an average jump (10.5"), I should be 17.5" away from him.

Of course I was expecting to kill at least 4 warlocks with average shooting....and my shooting was about average. It was just that he was saving like a boss.

 Pyriel- wrote:
Great batreps. Thanks

Thanks!

 Redbeard wrote:

Siphen wrote:

That game just wasn't meant to be (great eldar powers, great saves, Eldar got the first turn, etc). But I actually think you were underestimating Tau's mobility. I think Tau can avoid the Eldar for 2 full turns, on average.
Deploy a little further back, so the Eldar are forced to conga-line a bit more. They have to stay 1" away, of course. Move 6" away. Average shooting should put down 4-5 warlocks (giving you another 3" or so). Jump back 10-11". They could easily start their turn 20" or further away.

Looking forward to the rematch. I still think Tau have the advantage. Thanks again for the reports!

I have to agree, the Tau should be deploying as far back as possible, especially if they go second, as having space to retreat into doesn't seem like a factor at all. I think this matchup is entirely dependent on getting first turn, I think that without the defensive magics, the eldar will be hard pressed to survive the Tau's early firepower, and with it, the Tau can't put enough hurt out.

Deploying as far back as possible doesn't really help IMO. 1st turn he could just set himself up just outside my shooting range and then it would be just like normal, only he probably would have tabled me on T3 instead of T2. Deploying back would have just delayed the inevitable. I'd rather have the room to fall back, and what I needed was for him to FAIL HIS DAMN SAVES!!!

SaganGree wrote:
Just checking... against the Deldar, are you taking DtW against the Destructors?

No, I forgot.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
I have to say I didn't like the outcome of the Farsight Tau vs. the Jetseer council. One of the newest codexes doesn't have anything to defeat one of the oldest death stars in the game? I hope the rematch will end differently. I really want the Tau to put it to those cheap jet bikes. Also I don't think its fair when you get to pick your own powers without rolling for them like normal. Pretty much everything else seemed fair to me. Tau got nothing against inevitable close combat and psychic powers. Also did you try rolling for deny the witch?

I think that is the weakness of the Farsight bomb. Whether new or old, they will have problems against highly mobile deathstars and the seer council is the fastest deathstar you will ever see. I still think they can win. However, after this game, I feel that they will be the underdog in our rematch.

BTW, in all my games, we always roll for the psychic powers. In this game, he just happened to get lucky with his rolls and got the powers he needed. Pretty much an ideal situation for him. Without Misfortune, I think it could have been a tougher fight for deldar, though Fortune is what saved their bacon.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
I have to say I didn't like the outcome of the Farsight Tau vs. the Jetseer council. One of the newest codexes doesn't have anything to defeat one of the oldest death stars in the game? I hope the rematch will end differently. I really want the Tau to put it to those cheap jet bikes. Also I don't think its fair when you get to pick your own powers without rolling for them like normal. Pretty much everything else seemed fair to me. Tau got nothing against inevitable close combat and psychic powers. Also did you try rolling for deny the witch?

'One of the newest codexes doesn't have anything to defeat one of the oldest death stars in the game?'
'Tau got nothing against inevitable close combat and psychic powers.'

There, you've answered your own question.

Hmm interestingly enough I did think the seer council would do well vs the Tau, they just can't handle the speed, fortune and doom.

 SabrX wrote:
I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

I'm not. A souped-up paladinstar really outclasses nob bikers. Nob bikers won't be able to beat them one-on-one (at least not without a lot of luck). They need help from the rest of the ork army. Get a bunch of ork boys to tie up the paladins so that the nobs can go around killing everything else but the paladins. That's how orks will beat Draigowing.

 whembly wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
I was quite surprised how easily the Grey Knight Deathstar sliced through the Nobz Bikers. Nobz are no match against Force Weapons. I wish there were more eternal warrior models in the Orks' arsenal.

That's why I'd shoot the pallys rather than engage them head on....

It's all about the volume of shots... you only need to be 18"... sure, the nobz will get shot at too... but a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP are good odds.

That's a losing battle. Paladins will outshoot nob bikers any day of the week. You won't win that battle of attrition.


probably gakked up the quote but probably good enough...


I agree the bikers won't outgun the paladins but the bikers winning the match is highly dependant upon how they hit the paladins. Without taking into account luck, I think the best shot bikers have at downing the paladins is through a combination of volume of fire and S10 hits. I feel like if the bikers split up around that rock, and sent a lone boss with his kombi skorcha to the flank of paladins (more close than the nob bikers and positioned where a multi assault from paladins vs. bikers and solo boss is nigh impossible).. making paladins decide to shoot the large group of bikers and put a dent in them before they are surely shot/charged next turn (and hit with all those skorchas as the range will be alot closer with the biker boss providing cover)...... Think of that biker boss as darth vader in his tie fighter... or thats how i do at least. Make them elect a hon solo to go toe to toe with boss while rest of group shoots bikers. Boss may just win (probably not I'd say but odds are better than a straight up fight star vs star). Paladins could just all shoot/charge and kill the solo boss but then that leaves the remainder of the group unmolested to move in, drop 4-5 S5 flamers, rack up 10 hammer of wrath attacks, then get their normal combat..

If they don't kill the biker boss hes free to skorcha their keesters, and charge in and die gloriously to the overwatch, while letting his buddies scoot on in unscathed.... the nobs also really really need more bosspoles. people really skip out on them. you need a bosspole on a non-character as well for once all yours get challenged and beat down like dogs.

With you taking such an aggressive stance with paladins in this match jy2, I felt it would of left you vulnerable to him closing gap like that, splitting biker boss off, and probably would have been his best shot at pulling the W.

I think that one of the strengths of the nob bikers that was really not taken into account is the fact that there are 3 capable entities in that one unit that can use one another to catch overwatch, force decisions etc. I don't think for them to qualify as a deathstar they have to stay in the same "unit".. I think one boss breaking out of the unit to help with situations is a very key dynamic capability, not just due to their mobility, but T6, 4+ cover etc. the increased toughness for eating overwatch as a solo model I reckon would outweigh the damage done by overwatch when it hits full unit. I think that in overwatch you killed 3 bikes right? or was it 2 bikes and a boss? regardless 3 stock bikes is 150 points (5 points more than a solo boss) or 250 for the boss and 2 stock bikes lost to overwatch... if you were needing 5's to wound with s5 shooting vs. t6 that would of probably inflicted less wounds than against majority T5 also right?

I run a 2nd biker boss with a single deffkopta for 2 wound ablative T6 majority just to catch overwatch for my nob bikers sometimes.. but the principle can be applied to the deathstar by using the t6 solo boss.

Just my 2 cents. hope my analysis wasn't over bearing or annoying.

Excited to see the rest come down the pipeline!

Check out the


Tournament Results So Far


on p. 1 (initial post).


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Battle reports in the pipeline (already played, BR coming soon):

Asmodai's Ravenstar Dark Angels vs Farsight Tau

Rematch - Pinkstar Daemons vs Paladinstar Grey Knights

Rematch - Pinkstar Daemons vs Farsight Tau

Pinkstar Daemons vs Nob Biker Orks


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Requested matchups:

Bad Company Blood Angels vs Pinkstar Daemons

Dark Harliestar vs Bad Company Blood Angels

Nob Biker Orks vs Farsight Tau

Spartan Hamminators vs Anyone

Maybe we could get some matchups from different bonus matches combined. I'm really asking for the Spartan-hammernators to get a different matchup, like the nob-bikers, Draigowing, or Bad Company. I'd be interested to see what would insue in those matchups

 jy2 wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Can we see:

Pink Star vs Bad Company

Think that would be a good match-up. If played right the death company could limit the shooting of the pinkstar and try to indulge in some FnP boost!

If I have the time, I might try out that match-up.

But I can tell you right now that it will be a massacre by daemons. Their shooting is just too strong and the Angels really have no answer for a buffed-up LoC. Stay away and BA will get shot up by the Pinkstar. Get up close and they will get assaulted by the LoC. Now if the Angels get lucky and daemons get a bunch of bad breaks, BA might be able to squeak one by. Otherwise, they will be a huge underdog.

The attempt is to mitigate what pink horrors can fire at him. Try not to absorb all their firepower at once. The goal is to boost the FnP.

 jy2 wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Tau/Dar WraithBomb

ShadowSun 135pts

Tau Commander 205pts w/ vectored Retro-thrusters; plasma rifle x2; Onager Gauntlet, Repulsor Impact Field, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit)

6 fire warriors 54pts

Eldrad 210pts

10 Wraithguard with spirit seer Conceal 396pts

A legal beat stick...

2+ re-rollable cover save... They can all benefit from the neurochip and ignore cover with their shooting. Might trade plasma for missles for the sake of firing and charging still.

Not bad, but not viable either. Sure they've got resiliency, but this unit has neither the mobility nor the volume-of-fire to deal with other true deathstars.

Mobility is an issue. Volume of fire I would have to argue with. Unless the tau get misfortune or a way to ignore cover they could probably bring them down if they close the distance. If not they can have the tau commander shoot at them from range and dwindle them down. This build slaughters the pinkstar as 3d6 psychic checks and it can also deny the witch on a 4+. The paladin list would be the toughest as their are only 5 invul saves in the list. Even though they can re-roll them with fortune it would be the toughest match-up. Though the wraithguard can isntant death the paladins on to wound rolls of 6. They also have hit and run. The tau commander could even eat ap3 force weapons.
eldrad 3++
Wraithguard 3+ with 5+ cover base from conceal
Spiritseer 4++
Shadowsun 3+ 5++
shield drones 4++
Tau Commander 2+

Fire power:
10 S x always wounds on 2+ and 6 Cause ID shots 12" range
2 Rapid Fire S6 Ap2 24" range
2 Fusion blaster S8 ap1 shots

There is another flavor using Wraithguard Star that I use to great success:

Eldrad
10 Wraithguard /spiritseer conceal spear
Tau Commander w/ IR, Vectored Thrusters and stuff (currently running him without weapons only because of points) 2 shield drones
Wraithseer w/ D-cannon (or Brightlance - still trying to get a feel for what is better overall) - for the 4+ FNP on the wraithguard

yeah... its 1k, but its crazy hard to dislodge and having a Tough Scoring unit with Eldar is HUGE