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For me, it's often not the army but the opponent who makes it fun for me. If I have to actively think in order to pull off a victory, then it has been a fun game. If all in all it's too straightforward, then I get bored. My brother plays Tau (and is relatively new to 40k, only starting to play a wee bit before the release of 6th Ed), and the first few games we played, steamroll. But with time he understood his Tau better, and became more crafty and cunning making it more of a challenge for me to crush him. Frankly, with the new codex, I'm looking forward to battling him, seeing what new challenges he'll bring to the table and I'm always curious if he'll finally pull off a victory. The challenge is fun. Without it, this game is a bore.

 Ironwill13791 wrote:
Think about frying fish, or making some sushi. Then every dead fishman will make you laugh at least on the inside.

I never got the fish thing with tau, doubly so since they lived on a hot planet. So they have no nose. They still look closer to humans than any fish. fish heads are just too dam long.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

You'd get a game where they unpack their minis and roll dice, and you unpack your minis and then pack them back up again and roll a few dice when your opponent's special rules allow you to roll them.

This is how I feel playing against IG.

Second.

Try it with some more LOS blocking terrain. We actually almost always have a big mountain in the middle of the board in most matches and it's not about gaining cover saves, it's much more about hiding your models completely and competing for proper fire lanes.

Incidentially, tried a daemons flying circus vs tau. Said mountain denies anything really effective getting into a fire ark on turn 1. Closed to assault by turn 2. Tabled tau by turn 5. Lost a blood thirster by the turn 2, but the 3 daemon princes with combination of iron arm/ warpspeed, endurance, life leech really eats suits alive along with lots of other infantry through multi-charging. Smash attacking to half your attacks to try and stay locked in combat helps.

As others have pointed above, vs a gunline is literally a puzzle box. Move your pieces to deny LOS completely. Wipe out a flank and pin others in place. While all your fears of army wide overwatch seems scary, it's really not that great. Well maybe not with 3+ armor saves and reroll 1's as tzeentch daemon princes and T5 lol. Just take out longshot hammerheads and profit.

If you don't enjoy puzzles or have any LOS blocking terrain, (which may explain your biggest issues) then ya, you probably won't enjoy fighting gunlines in general. Incidentially I'd have to wonder why play guard?

You are just as apt to build the puzzle but don't like people solving it?

 Ailaros wrote:
So, I've been playing on and off again since 4th edition, so this is hardly new, but as they've got a new codex, I've found myself playing against Tau more frequently. I just played another game against them tonight, and it struck me, in all these years, I don't think I've ever had fun playing against a Tau army. Not once.

And the more I think about it, the less it's surprising, as this particular army for some time now has been shutting down your opponent's ability to do things as its primary style, but it seems even more egregious with the current codex.

For example, why does it matter how I move or deploy if my opponent's guns are basically always in range, and they basically always ignore cover now? What's the point of bringing high-mobility options when so many things get interceptor, and come with secondary weapons so they still get to shoot the next turn anyways? What's the point of the assault phase when you can eat an entire army of overwatch fire every time you charge? What's the point of the shooting phase if you stuff is either not in range, because their stuff has longer range and/or is more mobile, and because your opponents get to use the shooting phase but you don't, thanks to MSM and LOS-blocking terrain.

And don't get me wrong, it's not that Tau are just overpowered or anything. I can handle strong armies. It's more that I don't even want to win against Tau if it means I have to suffer through playing a game against them. It just feels like the special rules of this army have traditionally, and now moreso, just cheapen so much of the game that it's rather difficult to see it as more than my opponent doing virtually nothing (not likely moving that much, and never assaulting), and spending their time preventing me from doing virtually anything, what with making so many of my potential decisions irrelevant. Really, I might as well just watch someone play yahtzee with themselves.

And so this thread is in the general forum not because I need advice for how to beat Tau armies. What I want to know is how it's possible to have a game that's... well... a game against this particular army. How do you have fun against an army whose special rules strip what little strategy 40k has right out of the game?

Or should I just take a little break until the next codex comes out and I can finally get some non-tau opponents to play against again?

I don't want to sound mean to you or anything but I have to tell you that the Army you have been running for years does the exact same thing to Eldar armies that you are complaining about Tau doing to Imperial Guard.

For years now I have watched as Imperial Guard armies just tear Eldar into tiny little shreds by not allowing them to do anything at all.

Ig outrange Eldar by a long margin. The main tactic has been to punch the Eldar vehicles out of the sky (easy as pie with autocannon spam), then throw a cover ignoring AP 4 long ranged weapon on the survivors who stumble out of the blown up Wave Serpent and pretty much kill every single member of the squad.

If I happened to get anyone in close combat with anyone from an IG army it didn't matter either. The IG players would either feed a squad to my unit, wait for the squad to die, then light the close combat squad up with so much firepower that they had no hope of survival, or it would be a blob squad where attrition would just see my Eldar models die to the overwhelming number of attacks while the IG player just smacked my Eldar down with tons of power weapons on sergeants.

If that were happening to you it wouldn't sound like a lot of fun to play against would it?

But I finally came to realize that while I didn't think it was very fun, it was just the way the IG play. So I decided to think about things in a different way. I decided that no matter how many IG players I had to go against (at least 5 different players in my area), I was going to challenge myself to destroying their armies using everything at my disposal. So I started having fun picking new and unusual units for my Eldar to do the job. By challenging myself to destroying the IG, I have learned the fun of playing against armies like that. To me the fun is now in seeing how many different builds do against them. It is using unusual tactics that aren't normal for Eldar and seeing how the IG players react.

It has brought more enjoyment for me when playing them than I was having. Maybe a re-think is in order. After all, your opponent has no control over what you find fun. That's something you have to decide for yourself and no one else can make that decision for you.

After playing the new Tau I see where you are coming from. My orcs TAC list which had two dakka jets, two squads of 10 lootas and an aegis just folded the aegis was useless (talk about waste of 100 points) as were the dakka jets 1 squad of lootas died to one salvo of missiles and the others died to cover ignoring los ignoring shots no marker light needed. Suits dropped in and melta killed vehicles and flamed units (he had an assasin as well which popped out and flamed more.) Game really felt like terrain and positioning were pointless might as well have had a flat empty table. Actually flat and empty table might have helped my side as it would have allowed for faster closing in.

 Ailaros wrote:
So, I've been playing on and off again since 4th edition, so this is hardly new, but as they've got a new codex, I've found myself playing against Tau more frequently. I just played another game against them tonight, and it struck me, in all these years, I don't think I've ever had fun playing against a Tau army. Not once.

And the more I think about it, the less it's surprising, as this particular army for some time now has been shutting down your opponent's ability to do things as its primary style, but it seems even more egregious with the current codex.

For example, why does it matter how I move or deploy if my opponent's guns are basically always in range, and they basically always ignore cover now? What's the point of bringing high-mobility options when so many things get interceptor, and come with secondary weapons so they still get to shoot the next turn anyways? What's the point of the assault phase when you can eat an entire army of overwatch fire every time you charge? What's the point of the shooting phase if you stuff is either not in range, because their stuff has longer range and/or is more mobile, and because your opponents get to use the shooting phase but you don't, thanks to MSM and LOS-blocking terrain.

And don't get me wrong, it's not that Tau are just overpowered or anything. I can handle strong armies. It's more that I don't even want to win against Tau if it means I have to suffer through playing a game against them. It just feels like the special rules of this army have traditionally, and now moreso, just cheapen so much of the game that it's rather difficult to see it as more than my opponent doing virtually nothing (not likely moving that much, and never assaulting), and spending their time preventing me from doing virtually anything, what with making so many of my potential decisions irrelevant. Really, I might as well just watch someone play yahtzee with themselves.

And so this thread is in the general forum not because I need advice for how to beat Tau armies. What I want to know is how it's possible to have a game that's... well... a game against this particular army. How do you have fun against an army whose special rules strip what little strategy 40k has right out of the game?

Or should I just take a little break until the next codex comes out and I can finally get some non-tau opponents to play against again?

I have felt the same way about tank heavy IG since 3rd edition.

When I first started playing, I had a nearly all cc khorne demon/berzerker army. Playing against IG and its abundance of large blasts was not fun.

I'll bet there are people that feel the same way about every army.

Lots of armies sit and shoot. IG usually love it. Lots of GK armies sit and shoot as well. I don't think Tau are alone. JSJ is nice, but lots of units such as: FW, Broadsides and Tanks don't have it. So they can't move out of range. You can close on Tau pretty easily, that is why IMO they require strong bubble-wrapping.

1.)Start playing CSM, run plenty of khorne units.
2.)run many rhinos, defilers, land raiders, give them all Dirge casters.
3.) watch Tau cry since now they dont get any overwatch if one is within 6"
4.)????????????
5.) PROFIT

I recently played against Tau with Sisters. I turtled the Heavy Support slot behind my Aegis (1x Retributors w/ a Quad gun, 2x Exorcist) and then crammed ALL THE SISTERS down his throat turn one.

I went first, scouted up dominions, dumped them out at his gun line, lit up his commander's squad (it was night fightning) and then proceeding to pump every S8 shot I had in my army at it. The rest of the stuff did flat out moves. His command squad had a suit and a drone left, commander was dead.

I then started causing havok with 30 sisters and a battle conclave in his front ranks... and a Seraphim squad that deep struck inside a building lower level, obscuring them from a nasty riptide pie plate.

The Sisters withstood the volleys of pulse fire and started krak grenading the tanks. The battle conclave was a single Crusader, single DCA, and Uriah left after the torrent of fire and that alone killed an entire pathfinder squad in CC. My Seraphim melted pathfinder squads and then beatdown the Riptide that was locked in CC with my Sister Superior (it had already vaporized one squad and was 9/10s done with another!). My Seraphim ripped it apart with melta bombs and punching it to death! XD

It was an epic, bloody battle. I think you should try something unconventional with IG. Give the opposing player some super hard scrutiny. Go for the Ethereal first, if they have one. Breaking that Ld10 bubble will be massive!

The one time i really had fun was when I played Big Guns Never Tire as space marines. We had most of the objectives in the middle of the bord, on the extreme left. He had a mainly a crisis suit army, and I had some tanks and termies for my punch. The deepstrike and counter-thrusts resulted in a very see-saw game that ultimately resulted in a draw due to my LR camping on the middle objective.. Crisis armies are alot more entertaining to fight than gunlines

Use LOS-blocking terrain. Every problem with unfun gunline armies can pretty much be solved by having 1-3 good-sized LOS-blocking pieces of terrain somewhere near midfield.

My major issue is Tau is that it's simply a boring match up.

I play Necron and they just use me as a punching bag for most of the game if I try and move against them.

So far they have all deployed deep in their backfield and simply stayed put for the entirety of the match - sometimes jockeying a few units around.

Stand and shoot. Stand and shoot. Stand and shoot. It seems a bit boring to me. Can't hide the Wraiths - they're too big and once you charge them you get lit up like a Christmas tree.

So what do I do? How do I play a good game versus Tau? Not give them their obligatory 1-3 turns of simply shooting me while I advance. I turtle. I don't move and I hide every little thing I can from them and then come turn 4 I let all my Night Scythes come in and setup on objectives - meanwhile my Wraiths are finally close enough to charge in.

To me, it makes for a bit of a boring stalemate. As a mid range army fielding a bunch of melee units (Wraiths) I simply cannot match the ranged firepower, cannot abuse Night Fighting to my advantage, and my melee gets obliterated before it hits.

I'm going to keep playing the Tau - I don't gripe much during the actual games... it's just an annoyance I've had - I'll just bring Templates next time.

 Ascalam wrote:
I run horde orks.

They point at tau and larf

Granted not many tend to be standing sometimes to be enjoying that post battle larf, but it can be fun to see how many will survive long enough to get stuck in ...

My Friend plays tau (although we havnt played with the new dex yet) and everytime I go green tide he just keeps backing up and kiting me with fire warriors while shooting sub munition rounds out of his hammerhead. I can barely win in some cases, I would imagine that his strategy is even more powerful with the new dex....how would do I even get to him?

He can only back up so far, and can only fire so many pieplates a turn. Running 200+ orks at him full out should mean that enough will get through to cause some damage...

Usually i lose about half my boyz before i reach my usual Tau enemy's lines, as he backs up to his board edge while shooting the hell out of them. The other half then has the tau boxed in with nowhere to go, and can start krumping.

Of course sometimes his every pieplate is on target and i've not gotten my units properly spaced out, and then it will be a lot fewer orks that get through

 Budikah wrote:


My major issue is Tau is that it's simply a boring match up.

So far they have all deployed deep in their backfield and simply stayed put for the entirety of the match - sometimes jockeying a few units around.

Stand and shoot. Stand and shoot. Stand and shoot. It seems a bit boring to me. C.

Losing can be "boring". I guess. But what I will say is that Tau do NOT have to play stagnant to win. If they were VERY active and VERY mobile like mine, would you mind losing to them?

I promise you, not all Tau players play this way. Lots of IG are guilty of the same though and I never heard anyone make an especially big deal out of that. It isn't that they CANT play mobile and some do.

So maybe its the player thats boring. Not the army.

I think some valid points have been made so far. (A change of play style can help, a change of perception can help, etc, etc.) But, it's entirely possible that NOTHING is going to help.

I think that it's completely reasonable to find losing in a certain way to be unfun. (Or even winning in a certain way.) Personally, I can't stand to face Tyranids. I hate them with an undying passion. It doesn't seem far-fetched to me that someone could find the process of playing against an army that uses a Tau playstyle to be very unenjoyable.

I think at that point it becomes about damage mitigation. Don't let it turn you into a crappy person. If you come up against them in a tourney, don't throw the game or complain about their army. If a new player shows up to your club, then don't exclude him just because of his army. That being said, don't feel pressured to play friendly games against people who have other options, or who know you don't want to play against their Tau army.

You might want to seek alternatives. Personally, against power-house armies I feel I can't beat, or won't enjoy playing, I like to hamstring myself. If it's a 2000 point game, I will only field 1500 points. That way I'm not losing to the army I hate, I'm gaining valuable experience on how to work against the odds. (Like training at a hundred times normal gravity!) Since I know I was (probably) not going to win anyway, it takes a lot of the sting out.

In any event, I hope that you find serenity with the Tau, or at least that your local gaming scene comes to detest them as much as you do.

I play against Tau more than any other army, and have done so for years (best friend plays Tau). It's almost always guaranteed to be a bitter, bloody fight (which is good fun imo). I play aggressive, but also try to be surgical. If you hide (or try to) most of the game and then make last minute grabs, it's going to be boring...and that can be said of most any match up. Dive in, go for broke, sling some dice, and gleefully watch the (plastic) bodies fly on both sides.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Use LOS-blocking terrain. Every problem with unfun gunline armies can pretty much be solved by having 1-3 good-sized LOS-blocking pieces of terrain somewhere near midfield.

But this kindof unbalances the matchup in favor of guard for the same reason OP complained about in the first place. We have something (barrage weapons) that the tau doesn't, that neutralizes their defense (LOS blockers).

How to have fun against Tau?

Play to their weaknesses.

I prefer tanking with armour saves (Deathwing) or mass numbers (Orks) and beating them to death in cc.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Use LOS-blocking terrain. Every problem with unfun gunline armies can pretty much be solved by having 1-3 good-sized LOS-blocking pieces of terrain somewhere near midfield.

But this kindof unbalances the matchup in favor of guard for the same reason OP complained about in the first place. We have something (barrage weapons) that the tau doesn't, that neutralizes their defense (LOS blockers).

No, it doesn't unbalance the matchup. If you're playing 40k without 1-3 substantially-sized LOS blockers somewhere near midfield, your game is going to be unbalanced in favor of long range sit-back-and-shoot armies. LOS-blocking terrain makes fire lanes and avenues of covered approach, making the game more about maneuver, forcing shooty armies to include some mobility so they can swing around flanks and achieve enfilading fire. Tau have the tools to maneuver and shoot; it just forces them to spread out a little and not be in a perfect layered castle of interlocking Supporting Fire all the time. Which is the intent of the designers.

The variation of 1-3 pieces, and exactly where they are placed, allows plenty of variety in terms of how many fire lanes there are and how easy or difficult approaching the gunline army is.

Losing can be "boring". I guess. But what I will say is that Tau do NOT have to play stagnant to win. If they were VERY active and VERY mobile like mine, would you mind losing to them?

I promise you, not all Tau players play this way. Lots of IG are guilty of the same though and I never heard anyone make an especially big deal out of that. It isn't that they CANT play mobile and some do.

So maybe its the player thats boring. Not the army.

Same philosophy here. I never considered Tau a gunline army, as almost every unit in the old codex (which I have been using for five years) could fire effectively on the move. The Tau were meant to be maneuvering to engage, and not simply sit back in the corner and shoot.

Granted, this new codex seems to encourage static gunline armies with a lot of its units (I am looking at you Cadre Fireblade), and I am of the opinion that Vetock didn't fully understand the army when he wrote the new dex.

.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Pretend you hate all the models you've lovingly assembled and painted and want to watch them die to sushi in mechas.

I 1+'d.

Take about 5 deathstrike launchers and nuke em all! No seriously the op did make me laugh in agreement

Phanixis wrote:

Losing can be "boring". I guess. But what I will say is that Tau do NOT have to play stagnant to win. If they were VERY active and VERY mobile like mine, would you mind losing to them?

I promise you, not all Tau players play this way. Lots of IG are guilty of the same though and I never heard anyone make an especially big deal out of that. It isn't that they CANT play mobile and some do.

So maybe its the player thats boring. Not the army.

Same philosophy here. I never considered Tau a gunline army, as almost every unit in the old codex (which I have been using for five years) could fire effectively on the move. The Tau were meant to be maneuvering to engage, and not simply sit back in the corner and shoot.

Granted, this new codex seems to encourage static gunline armies with a lot of its units (I am looking at you Cadre Fireblade), and I am of the opinion that Vetock didn't fully understand the army when he wrote the new dex.

Hmm... I think he hit the nail on the head. I dont know what other codex's he was part of, but as far as THIS codex is concerned: awesome. EVERY unit now works like it "should" in my opinion. In the previous codex, you imagined how they were imvisioned easily enouh but they were 1 ingredient short of doing what you imagined they SHOULD be able to do. An example is the Stingwings. they just seemed like they would have been perfect with Hit and Run. I always said so. I used them anyways, but I just always thought "how cool would they be if...". And now they have it.

I always thought the drones should be able to take whatever "armament" they wanted. I thought "why should a drone squadron care what KIND of drone is in it?". And now they can. Just made sense.

Stealthsuits always seemed a LITTLE too expensive for 3 shots. I still loved using them but I always thought "man, those are torrent units. The Drons make sense but it would be NICE if the Burst cannon were cooler). I mean LOOK at the Burst cannon and ask youself: how many shots do you think that thing is firing? A LOT right? And on the Devilfish, it ALWAYS seemed like "wow, that should be a frigging GATLING gun of shots, better than a Heavy Bolter I would think!"

And it was done. Devilfish is still expensive BUT... Now at least you have the shots you should have had and it makes up for it a bit. A bit.

And why on earth did I HAVE to have a Commander suit? Sheesh. Ethereals are obviously the leaders of the force, so why force the command suit on me? Voila!

And Ethereals were dicey tosay the least, despite seeming so essential to the fluff. Why cant they ROCK? Well they do. A little. And that does not suck.

Skyrays...nuff said. Just..yah. Better now.

And the opponent NOW gts to see the full panoply of Tau technology doing what it should in battle. The enemy NOW gets to see VARIETY in Tau builds. Broadsides wont be an automatic, but many will have them. FIRE WARRIORS may be completely absent from some forces! Stealth Suit forces will crop up. Riptides will tower over the battlefield like giant Veritech Fighters in Battloid mode or mighty Gundam Stratus suits. You'll See Crisis suits...but every army wont have nine of them. You'll see Piranhas... Welll... You'll SEE Piranahs with BURST CANNONS on their noses! Whuuuuuuu. Yes. Yes you will!

Very cool.

He can only back up so far, and can only fire so many pieplates a turn. Running 200+ orks at him full out should mean that enough will get through to cause some damage...

Usually i lose about half my boyz before i reach my usual Tau enemy's lines, as he backs up to his board edge while shooting the hell out of them. The other half then has the tau boxed in with nowhere to go, and can start krumping.

Of course sometimes his every pieplate is on target and i've not gotten my units properly spaced out, and then it will be a lot fewer orks that get through

I like you sir! I believe you and I would get along quite well in real life! The answer is CLEARLY "BRING MOAR BOYZ!"

Hmm... I think he hit the nail on the head. I dont know what other codex's he was part of, but as far as THIS codex is concerned: awesome. EVERY unit now works like it "should" in my opinion. In the previous codex, you imagined how they were imvisioned easily enouh but they were 1 ingredient short of doing what you imagined they SHOULD be able to do. An example is the Stingwings. they just seemed like they would have been perfect with Hit and Run. I always said so. I used them anyways, but I just always thought "how cool would they be if...". And now they have it.

While I agree with many of your points on the new 'dex the issue at the heart of the matter is all of the mechanics that the units are using to interact with each other. I haven't built a list yet, but myself and several others at my club have run mobile "shoot 'n' scoot" Tau since 3rd ed. They are all playing gunlines now. Every one of them. A lot of the new rules/equipemnt upgrades they got seem to go to waste if you run them any other way but the static gunline.

The thing is, as others have pointed out, this is how many Guard players have played for years. Static line with equipment/rules/weapons to help ignore things like LOS blocking terrain so IDK how much room the average Guard player has to complain. That being said, I've found that my games tend to be more fun if I can think of ways to burn up all his pesky USRs. So if I know that the Tau I'm playing are going to slam down 3 units with interceptor, I try to bring a crap ton of DS units to try and overwhelm the Interceptors. If I'm playing a gunline with a ton of FW, I try to slam them huge amounts of armour saturation that role FORWARD at all times (which is something the OP can probably do if I'm remembering him correctly). I basically try to have one more *thing* than he has units that can go after that thing. I can go into more detail if this isn't making sense. Just let me know.

This sir is not how I play. Nor was it ever. here is the list (I posted it elsewhere) that I am currently using. Note how its used!

170pts 10 Kroot +7 Hounds+3 Krootox
170pts 10 Kroot +7 Hounds+3 Krootox
90pts 10 Fire Warriors
90pts 10 Fire Warriors

194pts 7 Pathfinders (3 x Rail rifles, Recon, Grav and Pulse Drones, EMP Grenades)
95pts Devilfish (Disruption Pod)

194pts 7 Pathfinders (3 x Rail rifles, Recon, Grav and Pulse Drones, EMP Grenades)
95pts Devilfish (Disruption Pod)

140pts 10 Marker Drones

150pts Commander (Flamer, Vectored Retro Thrusters, Drone Controller, Command and Control Node, Repulsor Impact Field, Neuroweb System Jammer, Puretide Engram NeuroChip, Onager Gauntlet)

235pts Riptide battle suit (Ion Accelerator, 1 Missile Drones, Velocity Tracker, Early Warning Override)
235pts Riptide battle suit (Ion Accelerator, 1 Missile Drones, Velocity Tracker, Early Warning Override)

139pts 3 Crisis Suits (TL Fusion Blaster, Flamer)


1999pts

I have FOUR Outflanking units (that actually outflank), I have a Deep Striking unit (that actually Deep Strikes),


So most of the time, i start with two Riptides on the table, a couple Fire Warrior Squads that aren't full squads, the Commander, and Drone Cloud. The Riptides are generally advancing so that terrain wont provide barriers later in the game once the enemy starts to TRY and retreat behind cover. Drones and Fire Warriors fire on the move to objectives behind the shadow of their protectors, sneaking in and amongst the rocks and generally trying to stay alive to plant the flag.

No stagnant gunline. Essentially 1-3 units at any time are standing generally in place and evn the Drone Sqarm moves forward often, to kep up with the army and provide its valuable services as the enemy crumples befoe the Tau onslaught.

It's been fun.

Now losing isn't ever going to feel "good" but I'm not so sure "bored" is the word I'd use to describe my opponents. Surprised maybe.

The new codex lets you do this.

Some things to add for me...

I play Necrons and I found my play style, the Av13 wall, just gums up Tau lines. The more they want to leverage their abilities in overwatch, the more I break them of that with Ann. Barges and Telsa arcing.

Plus, Tau Firewarriors are one of the few things that'd fold to a Necron warrior charge!

My planned Tau list of someday will not include the vehicle... just because I don't like the Tau vehicles ( how they look )! I know it won't be all mobile and fun... but it will be fun for me to build, paint, and sometimes throw on the table.

(Oh and Jancoran, you might want to drop those missile drones off your riptides. Kill one and you are now taking a leadership test due to a loss of over 25% of the unit!)

 TheKbob wrote:

(Oh and Jancoran, you might want to drop those missile drones off your riptides. Kill one and you are now taking a leadership test due to a loss of over 25% of the unit!)

Anyone not playing marines is quite familiar with how leadership works. 8 is nothing to be overly concerned about.