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Let's put it this way:
the SoB force is seen only in the battle vs the ECs, so the fact that they acted like damsels is ok, 'cause we see them only ONCE,
The problem is that the main Sister, we see her always, and the fact that she quite always act like a damsel is no good.
Basically: I agree with you.
Ahhh okay. Gotcha.
But yeah, call it my own writing experience kicking in a bias, but I despise the "oh they are so traumatized they never speak" kind of trait in a main character. In this case, I get the vibe that the author pretty much was planning it out and said something like:
"Welp, I have a babe clinging into Chunk Meatmuscle but I do not want to introduce any chances at all to develop her in any meaningful way. And I don't want to push my comfort zone by having her possess any personality traits more complex than that of a blow-up sex doll...SILENT SHE IS SOOOOOOO TRAUMATIZED! I AM A GENIUS"
But yeah, call it my own writing experience kicking in a bias, but I despise the "oh they are so traumatized they never speak" kind of trait in a main character. In this case, I get the vibe that the author pretty much was planning it out and said something like:
"Welp, I have a babe clinging into Chunk Meatmuscle but I do not want to introduce any chances at all to develop her in any meaningful way. And I don't want to push my comfort zone by having her possess any personality traits more complex than that of a blow-up sex doll...SILENT SHE IS SOOOOOOO TRAUMATIZED! I AM A GENIUS"
Agreed, but the main Sister is literally the Sister of the Blood Claw main character. So no sex doll or something like that
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
But yeah, call it my own writing experience kicking in a bias, but I despise the "oh they are so traumatized they never speak" kind of trait in a main character. In this case, I get the vibe that the author pretty much was planning it out and said something like:
"Welp, I have a babe clinging into Chunk Meatmuscle but I do not want to introduce any chances at all to develop her in any meaningful way. And I don't want to push my comfort zone by having her possess any personality traits more complex than that of a blow-up sex doll...SILENT SHE IS SOOOOOOO TRAUMATIZED! I AM A GENIUS"
Agreed, but the main Sister is literally the Sister of the Blood Claw main character. So no sex doll or something like that
The sisters of battle recruit from Fenris?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
But yeah, call it my own writing experience kicking in a bias, but I despise the "oh they are so traumatized they never speak" kind of trait in a main character. In this case, I get the vibe that the author pretty much was planning it out and said something like:
"Welp, I have a babe clinging into Chunk Meatmuscle but I do not want to introduce any chances at all to develop her in any meaningful way. And I don't want to push my comfort zone by having her possess any personality traits more complex than that of a blow-up sex doll...SILENT SHE IS SOOOOOOO TRAUMATIZED! I AM A GENIUS"
Agreed, but the main Sister is literally the Sister of the Blood Claw main character. So no sex doll or something like that
The sisters of battle recruit from Fenris?
From the flashback of the main Wolf, yes. She pratically can't talk 'cause she was hurt in a brawl (IIRC she even was quite killed when they sliced her throat, but maybe this is wrong), and the brother saved her. This BEFORE he became a Vlyka Fenryka.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 19:59:11
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
Vikings in space, nuff said, even Pigs in Space sounded better...
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
The ire that Space Wolves fans attract really irritates me to be honest, but then, I don't think it's exactly wrong either. There does seem to be a lot of fanboy-ism; probably more so than with other factions.
I've often wondered if the Space Wolf/Thousand Son divide is quite so prominent on other boards too, on that note...
It's a bit of a vicious circle; SW's get more flak because their fans are quick to jump to their defense, and their fans are quick to jump to their defense because the SW draw a lot of flak.
But although the SW were partially at fault for razing Prospero (remember, Horus changed the Emperor's orders from "bring me Magnus" to "kill them all" before passing it on to Russ!), had they stayed their hand, the Heresy would still have happened - Horus was already corrupted at that point.
Whether the 1k Sons would still have fallen at some other, more inopportune point or whether their continued loyalty would have altered the outcome of the Heresy or would have made no difference at all is up for grabs.
[nitpick mode]Although the Wolves don't particularly like the Inquisition - at least when it meddles in their affairs - their beef over the shenanigans post-Armageddon was not with the Inquisition; it was the Administratum's decision to sterilise and enslave the planet's population and IG forces present.[/nitpick mode]
I think that a lot of the hate for space wolves comes from the "why not me too" syndrome.
From a fluff (Ie. BL) perspective, the SW have gotten a lot of attention. More so than most other Chapters. The problem is, the stories were told by different authors and then to make it worse, they are not even written from the same perspective. That and BL authors seem to go a little OT because there is no central body for doing checks and balances of who does what.
Now all of this attention breeds a bit of jealousy. Why isn't (insert your favorite chapter here) getting some attention? Why does the SW need another novel? So you start picking it apart, and its so easy to do because of reason stated in the above paragraph. This book says this, this book says that, blah blah blah. And its easy to pick out the faults because of the wildly different styles/opinions/focus of the different authors. Now if (insert your favorite Chapter) got their own book, you would have something else to read, something to gloss over with your own set of Rose Colored glasses. And we do that, because this is fantasy. It is so easy to pick favorites. We all want to root for the Hero, even if that hero is a bastard. But more importantly, by damn it, we all want it to be OUR hero. Its so easy to forgive the bad writing, inconsistent plot points, world fluff breaking events when its OUR guy doing it. But when its not our guy or hasn't been our guy for a long time, its easy to slide into negative mode.
From a codex/army view point. Yes the SW codex is stronger than the SM one. Nothing more to say here. Why are SW better than my guys? Ohh god that is so cheap, why can't my guys do that? blah blah blah. Same color, different horse. Hey, we all want to win, we all want to believe we play on an even field. This is GW, we dont, it is what it is. But again, the base of the problem is why not my guys?
But for myself, I like the SW. They are the only SM faction I've ever liked.
I like that they are vikings in space. I see them as totem type worshipers as such wearing animal pelts, runes, etc. all work well. I like that they have a mutation fault, I like that they have an entire company devoted to that mutation and the super natural effects that it brings. I like that their powers may in fact be shamanic in nature as apposed to sorcery. I get that there are some of your out there who refuse to believe that it can be anything but sorcery. Because some book somewhere said so and thats what your clinging too. And your right to do it, but there are other just as poorly written and just as concrete that says that they may in fact be different. Nobody is going to convince the other guy, because the truth of the matter is your both right.
40K is not GWs universe, its your universe. Your the one who has to spend countless hours engaged in it, its you who allows for the scale of the engagement, its you who has to fit it all into the narrative and it has to make sense for you. Otherwise, your probably wasting a lot of time engaged in something that doesn't bring you any pleasure and what the hell would be the point of that? The written fluff for it is merely guidelines nothing more. Its something to fill in the dark shadows in the corners, its to give hints of what may be. It offers a general time line of events of which you can insert your own story to help give the whole thing a bit of cohesion. But never ever believe that your private narrative is any less important than those of published authors.
In short, the SW are what we each choose to make of them, buy focusing on what we like. If you choose to focus only on the negative or contradictive that other people have written, that is your choice. Or you can focus on the aspects that you think are cool and fantastical and have something that you can actually call your own.
This is ultimately the foundation for all roll playing. My space wolves are very different than your space wolves, even if we both like them, because they are mine. I've spent hundreds of hours modeling/painting/playing my force that follows my inner dialogue of who does what and why.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 21:59:31
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
I think that a lot of the hate for space wolves comes from the "why not me too" syndrome.
From a fluff (Ie. BL) perspective, the SW have gotten a lot of attention. More so than most other Chapters. The problem is, the stories were told by different authors and then to make it worse, they are not even written from the same perspective. That and BL authors seem to go a little OT because there is no central body for doing checks and balances of who does what.
Now all of this attention breeds a bit of jealousy. Why isn't (insert your favorite chapter here) getting some attention? Why does the SW need another novel? So you start picking it apart, and its so easy to do because of reason stated in the above paragraph. This book says this, this book says that, blah blah blah. And its easy to pick out the faults because of the wildly different styles/opinions/focus of the different authors. Now if (insert your favorite Chapter) got their own book, you would have something else to read, something to gloss over with your own set of Rose Colored glasses. And we do that, because this is fantasy. It is so easy to pick favorites. We all want to root for the Hero, even if that hero is a bastard. But more importantly, by damn it, we all want it to be OUR hero. Its so easy to forgive the bad writing, inconsistent plot points, world fluff breaking events when its OUR guy doing it. But when its not our guy or hasn't been our guy for a long time, its easy to slide into negative mode.
From a codex/army view point. Yes the SW codex is stronger than the SM one. Nothing more to say here. Why are SW better than my guys? Ohh god that is so cheap, why can't my guys do that? blah blah blah. Same color, different horse. Hey, we all want to win, we all want to believe we play on an even field. This is GW, we dont, it is what it is. But again, the base of the problem is why not my guys?
But for myself, I like the SW. They are the only SM faction I've ever liked.
I like that they are vikings in space. I see them as totem type worshipers as such wearing animal pelts, runes, etc. all work well. I like that they have a mutation fault, I like that they have an entire company devoted to that mutation and the super natural effects that it brings. I like that their powers may in fact be shamanic in nature as apposed to sorcery. I get that there are some of your out there who refuse to believe that it can be anything but sorcery. Because some book somewhere said so and thats what your clinging too. And your right to do it, but there are other just as poorly written and just as concrete that says that they may in fact be different. Nobody is going to convince the other guy, because the truth of the matter is your both right.
40K is not GWs universe, its your universe. Your the one who has to spend countless hours engaged in it, its you who allows for the scale of the engagement, its you who has to fit it all into the narrative and it has to make sense for you. Otherwise, your probably wasting a lot of time engaged in something that doesn't bring you any pleasure and what the hell would be the point of that? The written fluff for it is merely guidelines nothing more. Its something to fill in the dark shadows in the corners, its to give hints of what may be. It offers a general time line of events of which you can insert your own story to help give the whole thing a bit of cohesion. But never ever believe that your private narrative is any less important than those of published authors.
In short, the SW are what we each choose to make of them, buy focusing on what we like. If you choose to focus only on the negative or contradictive that other people have written, that is your choice. Or you can focus on the aspects that you think are cool and fantastical and have something that you can actually call your own.
This is ultimately the foundation for all roll playing. My space wolves are very different than your space wolves, even if we both like them, because they are mine. I've spent hundreds of hours modeling/painting/playing my force that follows my inner dialogue of who does what and why.
^All of this
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/29 22:17:36
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
Bran hit the nail right on the head,and it doesn't help the detractors and fans of the Space Wolves are stubborn as Imperial Fists. If you want to get really drunk, just go back a few pages and take a shot whenever I'm questioning the sanity of people. Don't do it when people return the favor unless you want to die.
For me some bending of fabric is okay, like xenos and such. But certain things we just can't discuss.
I finally discovered the part some have taken to mean they go wolfy in the SW-codex, it's very weak. Just look at the phrasing: When the Cadian battlegroup creed's Blade volunteers for a controversial counter-invasion into the Eye of Terror to destabilize the daemonic armies massing upon the hell-world of Void-Soul, many high-ranking strategos consider the Cadians damned to a futile and horrific death. Sadly, their calculations prove correct. Thousands of Imperial Guardsmen die in terror and pain over the first few hours of the invasion. Just as the Daemon warhost begin to surround the Cadian invaders, however something incredible happens. Long-limbed silhouettes appear amongst the greenish fires of Voidsoul for a moment, and out of nowhere come pack after pack of ravenous wolf-things, jaws snapping and claws caked with blood. Bipedal in only the loosest sense, with pieces of broken power armour clinging to their overly muscled frames, the slavering, hair-covered beasts fall upon the Daemon legions with a savage fury. Even the upright, proud figures that stalk amongst them are hideous to behold. The few Guardsmen that escape the resultant carnage and make it back to the Cadian Gate alive speak of their feral rescuers in hushed tones, for if they were indeed the lost brothers of the 13th Comapny, they were every bit as terrifying as he Daemon-things of Voidsoul.
Quoted directly from the Space Wolves codex. Now if this is where people think they turn wolfy they are sorely mistaken. They actually sounds like an odd mix of gorilla, man and wolf.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Kain wrote: Perhaps a metroid crossover is needed to show them a power armored woman who could obliterate primarchs.
(I'm serious, her basic guns have terawatt/kiloton level output)
That's it?
Vulkan took a teraton explosive to the face and shrugged it off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beaviz81 wrote: Bran hit the nail right on the head,and it doesn't help the detractors and fans of the Space Wolves are stubborn as Imperial Fists. If you want to get really drunk, just go back a few pages and take a shot whenever I'm questioning the sanity of people. Don't do it when people return the favor unless you want to die.
For me some bending of fabric is okay, like xenos and such. But certain things we just can't discuss.
I finally discovered the part some have taken to mean they go wolfy in the SW-codex, it's very weak. Just look at the phrasing: When the Cadian battlegroup creed's Blade volunteers for a controversial counter-invasion into the Eye of Terror to destabilize the daemonic armies massing upon the hell-world of Void-Soul, many high-ranking strategos consider the Cadians damned to a futile and horrific death. Sadly, their calculations prove correct. Thousands of Imperial Guardsmen die in terror and pain over the first few hours of the invasion. Just as the Daemon warhost begin to surround the Cadian invaders, however something incredible happens. Long-limbed silhouettes appear amongst the greenish fires of Voidsoul for a moment, and out of nowhere come pack after pack of ravenous wolf-things, jaws snapping and claws caked with blood. Bipedal in only the loosest sense, with pieces of broken power armour clinging to their overly muscled frames, the slavering, hair-covered beasts fall upon the Daemon legions with a savage fury. Even the upright, proud figures that stalk amongst them are hideous to behold. The few Guardsmen that escape the resultant carnage and make it back to the Cadian Gate alive speak of their feral rescuers in hushed tones, for if they were indeed the lost brothers of the 13th Comapny, they were every bit as terrifying as he Daemon-things of Voidsoul.
Quoted directly from the Space Wolves codex. Now if this is where people think they turn wolfy they are sorely mistaken. They actually sounds like an odd mix of gorilla, man and wolf.
No, we get it from A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns, they turn into Wolves, you're wrong, and in denial.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 07:01:46
First, their fluff, especially with their most recent codex and BL books, is awful, at least to me.
In general they usually seem to be written like some overactive 11 year olds internet fanfic about Space Vikings. We've got everything from firing artillery by smell, to characters with the word "Wolf" or some derivative thereof in their character profile and wargear like 14 times, guys that get to crash Thunderhawks for gaks and giggles and nobody seems to care. They come off as bad comic relief. Then we've got the "berzerker" aspect of SW's being unholy savages in melee combat who love the thrill of battle and are just so much fighter than other Space Marines. Then yet on another hand we've got the "sinister dark executioners" tripe that the other half of the SW fluff is, where no, they're not actually the ridiculous parody faction or mindless berzerkers, they just use it as an excuse to mask their brilliant tactics and master spy networks and incredible generalship. On top of that they've of course got an ironclad sense of honor and hearts of gold for the downtrodden little guy, but don't forget they're still dark nightmarish killers. Oh, and some of them are Werewolves too just for gaks and giggles.
They try to be anything and everything at once and they come off like someone's pet fanfic project where they have to be the "bestest at everythings!". It's like if you tried to mash Orks, Chaos Space Marines, the Inquisition and a dash of Tau into one faction, it just doesn't mesh. Their psykers aren't really "bad" psyekers, they use the native power of Fenris...
You've probably never heard of it /hipster.
From a tabletop perspective, largely they ended up being "Space Marine+1" for years, their book really incentivized armies that really did not fit almost anyone's idea of "Space Vikings", and I'll never forget seeing armies packing more long range S8+ AT guns than most IG armies while simultaneously still packing a dozen meltaguns and were more than capable of outfighting many MEQ opponents in CC thanks to Übergrit and Counterattack. As a result they became *THE* codex hopper "counts as" army, to the extent that SW's were the single most populous army at Adepticon 2011, yet something like 29 of 32 (~90%) of those armies were "counts as" armies.
Now the latter has changes somewhat, the core rules and meta have shifted and changed and they aren't what they once were, but those were not fun years, seeing SW armies that looked more akin to something Iron Warriors would be fielding, over and over and over again.
Their fluff is still bad though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/30 07:35:26
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
@SW fan hate: Most of us post on many forums and have been having the same arguments for years. It really gets tiring. Constantly explaining things over and over again. This is especially true for things that are misunderstandings or just plainly wrong and constantly repeated.
@ SW becoming wolves: SW themselves don't become wolves. They become a "Werewolf" like beast called a Wulfen. However, there are failed aspirants that devolve into wolves. The question then becomes are the wolves that the aspirants devolve into Fenris wolves or Thunder Wolves. That question is never answered and untill it is proven that the aspirants become Thunder Wolves. We don't have battle brother riding battle brother.
@Beaviz81: The fluff says that failed aspirants sometimes devolve into wolves. That means that the basic biological reason that makes this possible is "The fluff says it is true".
@SW fluff = crap: The fluff reconciles well if you break it down into two seperate fluffs. IE, 30K SW are different then 40KSWs.
The 30K SWs are really one of the worse of the worse Legions. The fact that Russ is so loyal to the Emperor and remains a military asset keeps the SWs from censor. Just look at how they are viewed almost universally by every other Legions and Imperial army. Angron puts it best when he says "You are free because you do what the Emperor wants" (paraphrased) to Russ.
The removal of the 13th Great Co and Russ and Co and thousands of years of domestication and we get the 40K heros of the IoMSWs.
Then you also have to realise that the mindset of a SW is to risk everything to get the win. Its a trait that is repeated over and over in the fluff. The ones we see in the fluff are those stupid/wreckless/badass acts that actually worked. For example in the 5th codex there is a story where a SW ship is dieing so the Wolflord orders his men to jump off of the ship and ride the explosion to the enemy flagship. In an attempt to board it. The wtf moment works out and we have a new omg SW fluff piece. What we don't hear is how many time this or simular actions have been attempted and everyone died. Possibly without the enemy even knowing that the SW were dumb enough to even attempt it.
So remember that for every WFT moment there are several attempts that fail. Many likey fail so bad that the enemy doesn't even know someone was stupid enough to try it in the first place.
The fluff say that failed aspirants become Wulfen and roams the planet as monsters. It's even stated in the Space Wolves codex, and that trumps your fanfiction. Not a word was said about wolves. Actually the word wolf is not used outside Space Wolves.
As usual I'm amazed about the pure hatred the Space Wolves seem to attract for all sort of flimsy reasons.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
The wolf maintained its grip until the bull gave up its last,
trembling rumble, then it let go. Blood dripped from its snout. It
padded around the massive corpse twice, moving quickly, head
low, sniffing.
It stopped beside the head of its kill, and raised its own head,
ears upright, to stare at Hawser. Its eyes were golden and blackpinned.
Hawser stared back. He knew if he tried to get back on
his feet, the wolf would still be taller than him.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris.’
Hawser looked up. Longfang was standing beside him, staring
at the wolf.
‘That’s evidently not true at all,’ Hawser replied in a tiny voice.
Longfang grinned down at him.
‘Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until
we got here.’
Longfang looked back at the wolf.
‘Twice he’s helped protect you,’ he said.
‘What?’ asked Hawser.
‘He had a different name last time you were in his company,’
said Longfang. ‘Then, he was called Brom.’
The black wolf turned and ran for the forest, accelerating as only
a mammalian apex predator can. It vanished into the enormous
darkness under the evergreens.
After a few seconds, Hawser saw its eyes staring out of the
blackness at them: luminous, gold and black-pinned.
It took him another few moments to realise that there were another
ten thousand pairs of eyes watching them from the shadows
of the forest.
Bam. From chapter eight of Prospero Burns, near the end of it. I can't give you a page number because I have it via ebook, in pdf form.
As for the story of Leman Russ, there are two main possibilities:
A. It's a myth.
B. He was raised by the original, mutated human settlers of Fenris.
The wolf maintained its grip until the bull gave up its last,
trembling rumble, then it let go. Blood dripped from its snout. It
padded around the massive corpse twice, moving quickly, head
low, sniffing.
It stopped beside the head of its kill, and raised its own head,
ears upright, to stare at Hawser. Its eyes were golden and blackpinned.
Hawser stared back. He knew if he tried to get back on
his feet, the wolf would still be taller than him.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris.’
Hawser looked up. Longfang was standing beside him, staring
at the wolf.
‘That’s evidently not true at all,’ Hawser replied in a tiny voice.
Longfang grinned down at him.
‘Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until
we got here.’
Longfang looked back at the wolf.
‘Twice he’s helped protect you,’ he said.
‘What?’ asked Hawser.
‘He had a different name last time you were in his company,’
said Longfang. ‘Then, he was called Brom.’
The black wolf turned and ran for the forest, accelerating as only
a mammalian apex predator can. It vanished into the enormous
darkness under the evergreens.
After a few seconds, Hawser saw its eyes staring out of the
blackness at them: luminous, gold and black-pinned.
It took him another few moments to realise that there were another
ten thousand pairs of eyes watching them from the shadows
of the forest.
Bam. From chapter eight of Prospero Burns, near the end of it. I can't give you a page number because I have it via ebook, in pdf form.
As for the story of Leman Russ, there are two main possibilities:
A. It's a myth.
B. He was raised by the original, mutated human settlers of Fenris.
Anyway, may I have everyone's concession please?
Ok, this actually proves that SW initiate who failed the ritual become Wolfs.
The wolves are back! *feral howl* "Si vis pacem para bellum"
That contradicts the Space Wolves codex. There they are slated to become slavering monsters not wolves, and in general I follow the codex instead of Black Library. Just watch the test of Morkai at page ten.
Here is some of what's written:
The frightening potency of the Canis Helix is legendary, and has accounted for the lives of millions of aspirants as their bodies writhe and churn in anguish. Those it does not kill it transforms into a slavering monster.
That proves either Dan Abnett to be in error or the Space Wolf was cracking a joke, because in the codex itself if you fail your humanity-test you become a Wulfen, not a wolf. Then comes more descriptions of monsters and such, Wulfen are failed Space Wolves initiates, not wolves, it's in the codex.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Correct mate its a bit like the black rage of the blood angels altought there it happens at any time..
and that slowed op codex does not help either
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
When it comes to the codexes that's how they see themselves (only way for me to make sense of them). I mean even the Space Wolves codex is quite horrid there with the hero-calling.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
The wolf maintained its grip until the bull gave up its last,
trembling rumble, then it let go. Blood dripped from its snout. It
padded around the massive corpse twice, moving quickly, head
low, sniffing.
It stopped beside the head of its kill, and raised its own head,
ears upright, to stare at Hawser. Its eyes were golden and blackpinned.
Hawser stared back. He knew if he tried to get back on
his feet, the wolf would still be taller than him.
‘There are no wolves on Fenris.’
Hawser looked up. Longfang was standing beside him, staring
at the wolf.
‘That’s evidently not true at all,’ Hawser replied in a tiny voice.
Longfang grinned down at him.
‘Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until
we got here.’
Longfang looked back at the wolf.
‘Twice he’s helped protect you,’ he said.
‘What?’ asked Hawser.
‘He had a different name last time you were in his company,’
said Longfang. ‘Then, he was called Brom.’
The black wolf turned and ran for the forest, accelerating as only
a mammalian apex predator can. It vanished into the enormous
darkness under the evergreens.
After a few seconds, Hawser saw its eyes staring out of the
blackness at them: luminous, gold and black-pinned.
It took him another few moments to realise that there were another
ten thousand pairs of eyes watching them from the shadows
of the forest.
Bam. From chapter eight of Prospero Burns, near the end of it. I can't give you a page number because I have it via ebook, in pdf form.
As for the story of Leman Russ, there are two main possibilities:
A. It's a myth.
B. He was raised by the original, mutated human settlers of Fenris.
Anyway, may I have everyone's concession please?
Ok, this actually proves that SW initiate who failed the ritual become Wolfs.
It doesn't prove anything - it gives you a hint that the "wolf isn't a wolf"....
I've read too many BL books to restrain myself from making assumptions....beside that Tutelaries theory also fits nicely....
Like I said I take it as one of the possibilities, not as "THIS IS IT"...
O YEAH - FREKI AND GERI WEREN'T INITIATES....they were Russ's family....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 14:36:00
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
Beaviz81 wrote: That contradicts the Space Wolves codex. There they are slated to become slavering monsters not wolves, and in general I follow the codex instead of Black Library. Just watch the test of Morkai at page ten.
Here is some of what's written:
The frightening potency of the Canis Helix is legendary, and has accounted for the lives of millions of aspirants as their bodies writhe and churn in anguish. Those it does not kill it transforms into a slavering monster.
That proves either Dan Abnett to be in error or the Space Wolf was cracking a joke, because in the codex itself if you fail your humanity-test you become a Wulfen, not a wolf. Then comes more descriptions of monsters and such, Wulfen are failed Space Wolves initiates, not wolves, it's in the codex.
Are you serious?
What part of them being "slavering monsters" contradicts the notion of them also being wolves? Wolves who happen to slobber (Slavering), and are the size of tanks with jaws that can rend steel (Monster).
Of course I'm serious, you can't go up against fluff VD, not when it is written in stone, and nowhere is it stated in the codex the Space Wolves turns into wolves, there ain't two ways about this.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
Beaviz81 wrote: Of course I'm serious, you can't go up against fluff VD, not when it is written in stone, and nowhere is it stated in the codex the Space Wolves turns into wolves, there ain't two ways about this.
The wolves are back! *feral howl* 
4500 pts
